Jeff Jones

I tend to think that if we stopped pandering to the vocal minority and just presented the facts the "public" would have a better chance of understanding. This is just my opinion though. I agree. If the public does not like the idea of a breeds being bred for and used for attack work they need to get over it. More descriptive action photos to show real aggression would help them understand possibly. Edited to add Here ya go, some thing like this video will help people understand. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZb_pKKh8G4 Ok just like this video will help people understand about show dogs. This is great I really think we are getting somewhere! Please keep up with your highly educational and informative posts shortstep. Your common sense and overwhelming knowledge on the subject is helping not only myself but many others as well.

Know nothing about guard dogs (is that the right word for their work?) but have a question, does the military or do hard protection handlers/trainers shop for dogs on DOL? Edited to say...Opps I see they are called Hard Protection dogs..sorry about the use of the word guard. lol. Is DOL a non-working dog forum now? People who need working dogs will obviously use DOL as a means to acquire them, not sure if you know exactly how military/police dogs are actually acquired, but most of them are from normal breeders (even show lines sometimes), and there are general security firms who would also seek out such dogs, not to mention, working dog enthusiasts. Interesting to know the military shops for their hard protection dogs on DOL. I would have thought they would have had connections with breeders who only work in this type of dog. Even using show dogs for this sort of work, very interesting indeed. I am just so surprised that dogs for such a potentially dangerous interface with the public, would be so randomly acquired. Anyway back to under my rock where the unknowing should always stay on DOL. Maybe you should read Nekhbet's post again.

I fail to see a problem with the ad.

OMG That is horrible.

I have found the KNPV line dutchies and malinois to be a lot more civil than there FCI line counterparts. It is impossible to get a Belgian Malinois or Dutch Shepherd with FCI pedigree papers which aren't fake.

can you explain what this is??? FR is a dog sport which was developed to test dogs for working ability before breeding. The dogs are tested in obedience, protection, food refusal and jumping exercises. It is similar to KNPV and makes Schutzhund look like a glorified obedience competition...oh wait up a minute.

No offence and I do not mean to take away from the seriousness of someone breaking in to your house, but...They do not sound very professional to me. If they were, your house would be empty by now and you wouldn’t of noticed they had come back to try the key in the door.

Another vote for Mark Singer.

Your posts have such a tone of attempt to condescend, Corvus. And don't accuse me of not being honest. I am not playing down aversives - show me where and how I've done that. I don't like the word "shock" because at the stim-level that I and many other knowledgeable-about-the-e-collar-people use it, it is NOT a "shock". So quit with trying to have me saying things I am not. And speaking of honesty - I think everyone else understands very clearly what I'm saying and trying to communicate. You're only trying to satisfy yourself with bringing on an argument and it is one that I think doesn't deserve the effort. Erny.

Sorry, I only just noticed this thread. I will type up a letter tomorrow morning.

My thoughts are with Jane and her family. Jane committed an extremely heroic act, I hope she is nursed back to good health quickly.

I would be happy with only ever owning these breeds of dog. German Shepherd Rottweiler Malinois Dobermann Beauceron

What police role was the APBT used for overseas???. I know a few have been trained up for drug detection in the states. Thanks, Jeff. I didn't think that APBT's were succesful as security patrol/police dogs comparable with the GSD, Malinios disciplines???. It has been a while since I have seen or heard of an APBT being used as a security patrol or general purpose dog. German Shepherds would still be the most popular breed of dog used for security / police work with the malinois coming in second. Here is a photo from the Law Dogs USA website. They used to breed and rescue APBT for detection roles. Due to lack of funding they are no longer operational

What police role was the APBT used for overseas???. I know a few have been trained up for drug detection in the states.

are the kennels based at the old "Working Dogs Academy"?

Must admit I'm surprised that the dog seemed to be so intent on "going" the offenders once apprehended. It was obvious the handler couldn't do anything but hold the dog. Don't they train an "offswitch" into them? I thought there was a 'Hold" command tht could be given so that the handler could render assistant or have his hands freed up if necessary. Perhaps that is a higher level of training that he hasn't attained yet? Yes, but I fail to see why the handler should of commanded the dog to leave the threat in that scenario. I would not of rendered assistance in that scenario and I would find it completely stupid for that handler to do so. It was a textbook apprehension from what I seen. Just to add a little more information from how I viewed the situation: The officer used his dog to track whoever was responsible for running from the scene of the accident. The dog successfully tracked down 2 persons of interest. The handler apprehended the people thanks to the ability and presence of his dog. At this point in time the officer does not know whether he has all the people involved or if they are armed. The officer kept his distance and called in for assistance, whilst his dog assisted with keeping the 2 people stationary and somewhat compliant. (Even though one was having an asthma attack) By keeping his distance the officer was able to monitor the situation and have effective use of his other use of force tools for if/when the situation dictates he needs them. I would not be approaching these 2 people by myself without the assistance of another officer providing cover. Police dogs and their handlers need to complete a 14 week general duties police dog course before they are allowed to become operational. They are then required to be re accredited every 4 months. I dare say after completing this training they can be commanded to down and out or be quiet when commanded.

I thought the show was good, I did cringe when the officers were searching people without appropriate gloves on though.

That's old school. I'm bringing it back!! STFU Dog Training Services. "We can train any dog, to complete any task, no questions asked" I am a fan of the "oi" command, it varies in pitch and length depending on what the dog is doing.

That's old school.

In the first volume of Lindsay's book he says "Unfortunately, aversive training methods are often inadequately understood or applied in cases where positive methods would suffice." Lindsay's books provide a thorough, honest, and very detailed summary of what we know about aversive learning, what effect aversives have on dogs in various situations, possible pitfalls and misuses, side-effects to consider, and a list of guidelines on the use of punishments, with the very first one being "Punishment should be used only after other positive training options have been carefully considered or exhausted." And there's the rub. I'm sure that everybody here who uses punishments believes they have exhausted or accurately ruled out the use of positive methods before they go to punishments. So where does that leave us? This strikes me as a strange thing to say. Of course I don't exhaustively rule out all positive methods before I go to punishment. Why on earth would I do something as time consuming and tedious as always exploring all possible positive methods before using punishment? I use punishment every single day with my dog to shape her behaviour. There's no "fall out", well, only if you call a well adjusted, cheerful, spirited, and reasonably well behaved malinois "fallout". I believe she likes me to communicate with her clearly. There's absolutely no reason for me to muddy the waters by trying convoluted methods when a stern glance, or an "uh uh", is all she needs to understand that the boundaries are still in place round here, and she better try another avenue for getting attention or reward. I don't understand the concept of pussy footing around avoiding any sort of punishment in case I hurt her feelings by telling her "uh uh". I know her too well for that, I know how to communicate with her without breaking her. I know that she finds our relationship rewarding enough that she's quite happy for me to show her which behaviours aren't acceptable, so that she can then try something else and get attention or reward. Just like I'm quite happy for her to show me what she does and doesn't like without it being a big deal. When did dog training stop being about communicating with an animal as best we can, and start being a technical exercise in using as little punishment as possible :D

Another vote for Mark. He would be the best person to contact. :D

:D I should be in Melbourne......in March 2011 for a week attending seminars and training days(work related) I must admit I have been very slack with training recently. I do have a new resident four legged friend for a few weeks until he gets assigned to a handler, I shall complete a 10 minute training session sometime in the next few days so he can complete several tasks such as: the washing / ironing - cooking - cleaning - car servicing..... are you still struggling with training your dog to complete the ironing?

Yes, you are well known for only posting in threads on content that you have experience and knowledge on.

A fair few dolers have done the NDTF course, if you do a search on the forum a lot of threads come up