Jeff Jones

Rusky you cannot say the wa police force use 100% pure positive training, especially when 2 of the new dog handlers are from the uk and USE E-COLLARS. you can disagree all you want but thats the truth, a purely positive trained police service dog trained without any adversives...i have yet to see one... i highly doubt the WA Police Dog Squad has changed its training principles since i was there 2 years ago, and i highly doubt a civilian has the knowledge or authority to state what are and what arent training techniques for police service dogs..,

the WA Police do use positive training, but they also use adversives in training. the last time i was in WA at the old police academy there were 8 dual purpose trained dogs running through proofing excercises with there e-collars on, This was around 2004. there are around 19 operational dog teams now with there latest graduates in november, one of the graduates from the UK used to have a training blog and has written articles on the use of prong collars.

i highly doubt any schutzhund club in australia has had the need to have any basic/beginner classes.

some schutzhund clubs have puppy classes, apart from those few clubs with puppy classes all dogs train on the same night, it isnt like obedience classes etc, what ussually happens is each member gets there dog out for individual training by the trainers/other handlers. with schutzhund clubs you can join up and train in selected areas only...obedience, tracking, and "protection"

so there arent breed specific clubs that train for ROT's??

i know of a few...im sure you could think of some myszka if you thought of breed specific clubs

it is much easier to bring them back with your own luggage as ruthless said, but if caught you will get an on the spot fine and can be summonsed to court . the court wont see negligence as an plausible excuse

best bet would be to go through K9 force... Customs held up an order of mine for 2 months of clatter sticks and schutzhund whips before

tds - what is the break down of the learning process for using a prong collar?.....

no, you wont find to much information about the dogs deployment or even if they have been used....but it works out that once a week the GIGN are deployed on a mission either in france or overseas. the average working life span of a police dog in america is 5 years so i would say it would be about the same...

i wouldnt stand there while a guy was getting mauled by 2 dogs either ... again i dont think the hostage would have been bitten...you have to look at what is more rewarding for the dog.....attacking the aggressive guy with the gun....or going for the hostage..... they would have performed this and many other training scenarios hundreds of times....the gun and suspicious manner the decoy was acting in would of been a trigger for the dogs to focus in on that guy... if the dogs would have been locked in prey and not able to distinguish between a threat and a hostage the first dog would have either ..a) jumped through the car window...or b) jumped over the car and turned back around to try and find a way into the car.

thats the kind of dog the GIGN want tho.....if they wanted a more mellow dog they wouldnt be using belgian malinois'. if the malinois wanted to attack the guy in the car he would of....i dont believe the malinois would of attacked the first person it came to, these guys dont operate in normal policing roles, the dogs would just be another effective tool that they could use if the situation arises. its upto them if they want to use the dogs or not......they could easily use a rifle and shoot the guy in the head...they train for 2 hours a day every day on advanced shooting techniques alone....but its good to have the dogs as a less lethal use of force if they feel the need....

the french want there dogs like this, they want them to hit hard and fast. there dogs are not cross trained in any other discipline apart from attack work. so yes they dont want a thinking dog they just want a dog to send in and take down the perp. it was a mistake for the dog to bite the handler but thats what trainings for....amateurs train until they get it right, professionals train until they can't get it wrong...

yes, i get the same feeling as being a decoy as i do when i let my dogs go for a long bite... after all being a decoy you get the best view available

maybe theres something wrong with me because i do like watching dogs take down a decoy....infact i was in america at just recently being the guy in the bite suit getting taken down these dogs arent trained to hurt or take peoples lives....they are trained to save peoples lives.

i prefer to give a re-bite as a reward and use 2(sometimes more) decoys that way the dog isnt focussing on me for a reward and is alert waiting for a second decoy to come out,

i agree i dont think there was any malice in the bite the dog just made a mistake and bit the hand thinking it was the toy... didnt look like there was much damage to the handler and i bet he wont make the same mistake again what was wrong with the images?

he does bite the handler...you see the handler peel back his glove and look at his hand after the dog lets go, i believe the dog thought the handlers hand was a bite toy and the dog latched on thinking it was receiving a reward, either way wearing black gloves and using a black bite toy as a reward is prety silly

the handler was pretty silly for waving his hand which looks exactly like the bite toy he pulled out infront of the little prey monster this is why i prefer not to use a secondary bite toy to train a dog to leave..

the guys in this video are from the french GIGN (Groupe de Sécurité et d'Intervention de la Gendarmerie Nationale) they are a specialist counter terrorism group kind of like Americas "Delta Force" soldiers but these guys have more training and are used more often, they are by far the best military unit in the world trained in counter terrorism/hostage rescue. thats enough useless info for now tho...

i cant remember where anyone mentioning the use of either collars has stated anything which joe public could confuse with anyone mentioning either of these tools are to be used to harm a dog... however in all of the threads about these pieces of equipment i have read i can remember countless people saying they should only be used under guidance of a qualified and trained professional.... its hard to teach someone with a closed mind....

interesting.... so your saying because a trainer sells certain products and trains people how to apply them correctly and to train on there own has a vested interest, yet you dont mention anything about people who attend general obedience classes who dont allow the use of these training tools, who have been members for months/years and are only being led around in circles....while the club collects membership money training money etc..... i dont know where you get your reasoning from...

where is the "vested" interest....

look at the qualifications of the people on this forum who advocate the use of prongs and "shock", to those who dont.... edit for typo

from 1928 to 1972 just hope you dont draw to much attention to the e-collars