SparkyTansy

Thanks all for the chat last night!! You are all a bit of an inspiration!! really drilled home just how much work spartan needs! I hope no one found any surprise drools on their clothes when they got home!!

I think that all those, particularly those without breed clubs need to express their concern in writing if not already... Even the ones with breed clubs, if you don't agree, but also I think that they are being a little unfair by choosing a specific age simply because a breed club says so... I wouldn't breed a weim at 12 months, but I also think 3 years is too long to wait for an ES, but it's all dependent on maturity of each individual which is the main point here. It should be the decision for the breeder with guidelines NOT rules.

Plus some grey german ones ;)

Agree!!

for future reference http://members.ncats.net/jdselby/breeding%...ur%20bitch.html

found it! nevermind....

I might come down to the agility trial on the 22nd is it at the canine or somewhere else? GDC show the day before and bbq that night im concerned that i'll be slightly stuffed but i'll make an effort!! Ptolomy that sux! daylight robbery but i agree that they spent at least 45 minutes cuddling...

oooooooooooooh meeting Strauss is tempting!! sadly we don't do agility (althugh Valley is pretty good at putting the idea into my head!)

in regards to the original post, are those breeds as listed currently a recommendation made by breed clubs originally? I only ask because there doesn't seem to be any other reasoning for it why those specific ages have been chosen...

wow... i had NO idea that ACS were so frought with issues... are people reasonably open about these issues within the breed Ellz?

certainly is mirawee - as if the OES that show would ever be equipped to work day in day out with teh coat they carry now... and despite so many who say that the coat would naturally strip, it's completely naive to say that over the generations of breeding OES for profuse coat to suit the show ring, that they'd be ok unbrushed in a field with sheep for days on end. Still, Charlie likes to herd various objects (usually the other dogs) and i'd love to see him with some sheepies i'd only do it once he was clipped though!! Again i don't doubt he carries that instinct but he'd be exhausted if he was in full coat, droving sheep!

I just want to add... about the working vs show thing with English Setters, that I know that some show bred ES can work, but they are in no way ever going to be as effective as the field bred types, whether they can set a bird or not. James sets birds, flies, ducks, spiders - you name it... but he'd never be up to par with the field ES. There are also some breeders out there who breed duel type ES which i am quite aware of, but again, they can do what they need to do but they'd never ever be as good as a field type llewellin setter, which are world renowned for being the very best in that field of work, particularly in the US. Just the same as the Show bred ES have gone one way with looks, temperament etc, field bred have gone another... it's the way of the world and it's just the way it is now... i have a preference for show bred ES because they, i feel, are closer to the original ES that Edward Laverack sought to breed, despite some of the lack of the working brain. The breeds i was talking about that are not so different between working and show are the ones that are still similar in looks between field and show... like this guy... Sorry i just wanted to make that point... back to regular programming now!!

aw no takers for Ari? she is really good at cuddling, keeping my boys under control (even if they don't need it) and would make an excellent fitness partner, providing you can walk/run for longer than 6km because that proved very easy for her (but i was struggling when i got home!). She has really nice teeth, because she chews so much crap, and she's never been ill a day in her life!! See, there is lots to love about Ari!! (i just realised I could just about put off anyone thinking about buying a weimaraner, but i am very honest when i say that the 4 i have had prior to this have NEVER been this bad )

Thanks for the comments on that photo of James - it is very cute. i have a range of them done by Blues & Boots (DOler) who looked after James while Ari was in season. I was missing him a lot, so she did a series of photos for me to illustrate the fun he was having. I also have one of him being "examined" with a stethescope by her housemate (both are vet students), one in the car (in the drivers seat!), one with his best mate Eli (LH weim). it was all very cute and made me just miss him more!! Amypie i feel your pain... Ari is three this year... and only a few weeks ago for about a week i came home to: 2 x destroyed beds 2 x destroyed PS2 games (never touched before!) 1 x destroyed PS2 (day after the game destruction she thought she'd finish the job - youshould have seen her poo after THAT one!! black, blue and green bits of plastic everywhere!) 1 x Destroyed PS2 Controller (ditto above - same day as PS2) 1 x destroyed Xbox game (only two days old she took it right out of the player!) I also don't have a lounge left in my house which hasn't got a chewed corner. She's also chewed bits of metal horizontal blind and the string from the blind cord before this... She broke out of her metal crate once She destroyed the bedding, carpet remnant and tray (granted plastic so fair game) of another crate also She can't be outside during the day because she'd destroy teh retic and dig... I went out and bought two new beds (nice, tough ones but ones that spartan and James want to lie in so she can't rip them up) and bought a new baby gate so that she can be behind it during the day in an area where there are no blinds (left up), tiled, no access to furniture, carpet, or anythign remotely chewable (although had concerns she might attempt to eat through the plaster). I also bought her a brand new nylabone which she loves. WE have started 6km walks and back to obedience again which we hope will phase out her destructive behaviour. God i hope she settles a bit after her litter... i've never had a weim so destructive and as i said before my boys grew out of their destructive phase after 16 months...

yes I was going to write labs, because there are some examples of duel purpose, but i haven't seen that many... I think that the bar that chessie people set themselves is admirable and is something that could/should be done in so many breeds

GR - PM showdog to see if she is available that day... in Canning Vale but an amazing groomer.. there is someone else i've seen recommended before on here, but i can't remember who it is!!

yes the debate between show and working lines is a very live one!! I don't love the working line ES... they have been bred very specifically to work, are more highly strung than the show lines and to me, just not a true english... their 12 o'clock tails don't thrill me either I really like it when there are breeds where you can not really tell the difference between work and show... chessies, Weimaraners, GSPs, Viz, tollers... apart from chessies there are subtle differences between those breeds, but it's not like looking at the setters and not being able to pick that they are the same breed!

we found lamb was the fastest way to get weight onto our skinny grey... lamb flaps and lamb based kibble.

hey Valley you could get a working line English Setter - they are white...ish and they retrieve!! Toller sized!!

LOL at ValleyCBR poor Lilly she's just being a troublesome old lady Ptolomy gees that is a bit scary!! so lucky that your neighbour was so helpful and caring. GR - those are nice names. i bet as you get to know him you'll work our just what will suit him :D I had my names picked out for Spartan and James waaaaaaaaaay in advance... but Ari i had two names picked out and picked the one that suited her more... funnily enough i can't even remember the other name now, such that Ari's name suits her so well. Joelle come back soon!!

GR - :D :D and little ones!! RS I'll handle your aussie!! although i think Mirawee would do a better job... i'll probably run it around like i do with an OES I really do like Aussies, they are gorgeous, but I am biased when it comes to setters nothing beats them (for me, of course! You can never help the breed you love). Still, I do start feeling a bit mad when they start their naughty habits at 6 months or so, but then experience says they'll stop and settle down at 14-16 months and then they are back to beautiful, gentlemen by nature (except for Spartan, sometimes ) but, just cos i can...

Good to see most of our dogs are reasonably healthy... but it is alarming in particular the number of dogs with skin allergies and food allergies/intolerance One of mine has Atopic Dermatitis and is allergic to chicken and intolerant of other foods One has HD but apart from that is very healthy One is healthy which makes me very happy

CC for the flys there are a few products on the market... you can also get... is it pyrethrum? gosh i can't remember, but you just dilute it in a bottle and spray it on... keeps off insects. When i found out spartan was allergic to some insects, we used to do this. Dasiy looks very cute with her new, light spring jacket I am puppy clucky, but not to own one... i just want to show one! Ari is enough puppy at nearly 3, and like Trixie, is becoming worse as she gets older!

I might just do that Valley... although i think i'll consider bringing him to some shows in the near future... if i'm not entered... he likes the socialisation part.

It's all about elimination... My dog is allergic to chicken and is intolerant to beef and pork. He can eat kangaroo, turkey, fish, and lamb (but raw in small amounts) If you do try it though, make sure you know the triggers. Our elimination diet took a long time, because my dogs reactions come out in his skin sometimes weeks after he has had the food. Some dogs with allergies have gut reactions either vomiting or poosplosions...