SparkyTansy

I agree with megan PL. There is no reason why, eventually even, the pom can't go outside as well. Why not teach that from the beginning? a consistent approach for both dogs to teach them the rules and boundaries - those being, NO dog pees in the house. it's not as though the Pom is physically incapable of also getting outside, is it?

Other than that, they are very cute. Best of luck with them!

ETA - I don't know anything about poms to answer your questions on the face questions... perhaps your breeder can give you some insight? She's a registered breeder, so she would have given you papers which list her colour, and I'm sure if you send her a photo she'd be able to tell you what type of "face" she has.

very stocky for a pointer breed, but he has a head like a gundog.

maybe some kind of scent hound?

Are they using the purebred registered dogs to have the puppies?

I doubt there is much that can be done, but if they are using the dogs in her name for breeding the DD's, perhaps there is grounds for her breaching the COE.

I know terrier old breeders that lament the fact his isn't done any more as it used to be common and that many terriers have lost the fiery nature to take on all comers.

And lets remember vermin killing isn't just a Terrier thing.

Miniature Schnauzers where breed to be Ratters,Dachshunds go to ground for vermin ,You have the Sighthounds

So many breeds where breed for similiar work & no one thinks twice about them.

A good Terrier in nature doesn,t mean it will kill all things after all many terriers that do there thing at home come straight out the ring With other Terriers.

The only Terrier that i would truly take upmost precautions would be the Kerry Blue ,they are the Terrier of terriers BUT they are also very trainable & can be extremely social.

Facing off is about showing gameness & terrier pride not about killing .

Our Beddies & Kerries lived happily in our household but our Kerry girl was a very proud Terrier in the ring .

Infact at most shows you will see varying Terriers facing each other in breed/group ine ups so bringing the selected breeds to the middle is no different .

I aslo have gundogs & it amazes me how many gundogs can run past a bird in the showring without a second glance ,very sad

I actually don't mind if my Gundog ignored a bird in the ring. She knows the difference between a magpie in front of her line of sight, and the scent of a quail in the field, and will act accordingly. What's SAD about gundogs in the Gundog showring isn't the lack of interest in sighting a bird, it's that most of them will never get a whiff of a game bird (quail and other game available for hunting in Australia), or have the opportunity to retrieve, or flush and retrieve feathered or furred game, and as a result, we will never know if that instinct is retained or not, when breeding.

Thanks everyone for the congrats :)

CC that's fantastic about the borzoi. isn't it interesting that the dogs that are generally bred to work independently of their owners are branded as stupid? Setters are another one of these breeds.

One of the things I've found with Rally, is that it needs to be kept in mind that consideration should be given to older and disabled dogs OR people. The Pivot in the advanced, for example, would be very difficult for someone with an injured leg. Upon watching an american video with the same signs, the pivot was not demonstrated keeping one foot on the ground at all times.

Was really nice to meet you tumbleweed, and well done on your passes for Rally and also your run in Agility!!

I'm definitely still smiling Ptolomy, although a bit annoyed this morning, because Ari has come into seasons so we will have to pull her from the tracking trial this Saturday.I'm a bit bummed, as I think she was ready!! bloody bitches...

I do find the weight thing interesting and i suppose it's all about the judge etc. I keep Lulu slim and she has great muscle tone at the moment. I wouldn't change that for any judge. She looks fantastic and healthy. sometimes I wish that we could have a specialty where the judge has us move the dogs for a long period of time. i love watching the Rotty specialties.

Woo hoo congrats Emery that is FAB news!!! So so happy for you :)

the weight thing is funny though!!

Congratulations to everyone and their passes and successes over the weekend!!

I don't usually come into here, and certainly not to post anything, however I do have a small brag. My 10yo English Setter Spartan got his first pass in Rally Novice on Saturday with a score of 89/100. I'm very happy!!

Hopefully next weekend I'll have something else to brag about... we shall see :D

I'd enter. His coat might be fantastic enough that with the right care it will recover enough by the show date to take him.

I can see the point in why it's done... but given situations can vary in each dog (for example Amber living with small fluffies and competing in agility, would NOT be asked in any way to ever spar) it can ONLY be a consideration in measurement of temperament, and not a conclusion based on whether they perform.

If it's imperative to breed temperament, and people are saying that there is too much softness in terriers and their temperament is being compromised, then pushing for duel titled dogs in breeding (or a dog that has competed in a task related to it's working origin), where applicable, might be a worthy consideration. (please note, i state where applicable, because many breeds can no longer be asked to perform any of their original tasks)

go back to a lifestyle from the middle ages. Then at least we won't have to read your narrow minded hate.

That's rather dramatic, don't you think?

It's a two way street when it comes to scientific studies and pure breeds. problems arise when studies are biased, when there isn't enough participation etc., or misunderstandings surrounding the results and how the conclusion came about.

Gosh we must have all been pretty busy on the weekend... page 3!!!

I hope everyone had a good weekend. For those not on my FB page, a little brag that spartan passed his first Novice Rally with 89 out of a 100 (we were aiming for a pass, so we are pretty happy with that!).

Congratulations on everyone that had passes and wins over the weekend!

Emery how did you go with the specialty? did you get a V rating birthday present?!

I agree with Bisart. I microwave Lamb's fry (Liver) but don't oven dry them. My Dobes love it and never get tired of it......but then again, I don't use alot as it is bait and should be a treat to get them to perform.

I have seen many handlers constantly feed their dogs with the bait and I think that's why they get bored with it.

I've helped hold other dogs in the Utility ring and have yet to meet a dog that does not like the lamb's fry. Good luck.

I have also seen people who tease their dogs with bait, the dogs perform what the handler wants and yet they withhold the bait. The dog probably gets bored and gives up because they don't understand what the handler wants.

research on Polygenic conditions - particularly those which pose a threat ... HD and ED, for example.

Congrats CC! a totally justified brag, if you ask me :) (I couldn't wait to brag about one of my homebred pups getting his TD at 15 months!)

Something else to consider is that you may not necessarily stick with Weis which may make something with Wei a little too restrictive (or look a bit silly) down the track if you end up with another breed. And don't say you won't because I am pretty sure most people don't go into dogs intending to change breeds but many do.

This! i got my prefix with English Setters in mind, and now use it for Weimaraners :laugh: Luckily my prefix isn't too breed specific

what about

perrogris (grey dog)

laplata (silver)

plateado (silver coloured)

just regarding your other request about hips and elbows, you can look for a breeder who breeds from dogs with low elbow and hip scores, however you cannot guarantee you will get a puppy with good elbow and hip scores, even if the parents have been tested and are below breed average. Your only way of guarantee getting a dog with good elbows and hips, would be to get an adult that has already been xrayed. This would mean probably an ex show or breeding dog.

haven't really given us much to go on. Do you have anything you could use (names of dogs, special places etc) that could be combined? do you want something that is fairly specific to Weimaraners?

have a look also at the prefix website http://www.prefixsearch.com.au/ to check any that you might have chosen. it's no guarantee that one you choose won't get knocked back, but it's a good way to rule out any you have chosen.

I rememeber speaking to a Weimaraner breeder in Germany who said dogs that were not gundog quality would be culled instead of being sold into pet homes not too long ago.

I suppose the situation here is different since the temperament was the issue there, not the colour and I also think back then there may not have been any spay/neuter options readily available, so even if sold to a pet home, there was no way to ensure the faulty dog did not go on to reproduce either faulty purebreds or mixed breeds with possibly dangerous tendencies (mixing some breeds with conflicting temperaments is just asking for trouble as most of you already know).

slightly different in Germany with Weims. they are still very strict about who they sell puppies to. The breed wardens of the club chooses the mating, and homes of the pups not the breeder, and you must have a gun licence and be a hunter and wiling to work your dog just to be eligible to own one.

I had a call from a puppy buyer after he was exposed to a dog with kennel cough. he wasn't coughing yet but had loads of nasal discharge. He was taken to the vet and put on antibiotics. he was given the nasal spray for KC... His sister (my girl) was exposed at the same time to the same dogs as he was (they were at a show) and she hadn't had the KC vacc/nasal, and she didn't get any symptoms of KC at all. I'd never heard of the nasal discharge in relation to KC until this happened.

This is not intended to be inflammatory, I have a genuine question regarding ethical breeders.

From what i know of breeding (very little actually), my understanding is that the breeder strives to better the breed, and breeds for good conformation, as well as good temperament.

Would an ethical breeder breed specifically for excellent temperament, if there was the chance perfect conformation would be compromised? Or would a dog and bitch of outstanding temperament not be bred from if there was little chance of potential show dogs in the litter?

I'm not talking about health or serious defects here, but more the dam and sire may not be "show ring perfect" but have such wonderful temperaments that they would be the kind of pups that should be in every home and out there being ambassadors for the breed.....or does this then put the breeder in the realms of not breeding for betterment of the breed standard, and into the realsm of the BYB mantra "but they were such nice dogs i wanted them to have puppies!"?????

I'm pondering on this because as a dog owner, I would choose to buy a puppy from an ethical breeder, but I have no intention of showing, and would simply be after the best temperment, healthiest puppy i could buy, so things like the "wrong" colour, or perhaps one that doesn't look "right" for the show ring are not concerns for me.

It is a great question you ask and already well answered by others.

What pops out to me in your post that I am wanting to respond to specifically is that similarly to what some have mentioned (and in no way is this reflecting on the OP at all nor is it intended to be about pet owner bashing) the breed standard usually calls for specifics in each breed's temperament. A particularly breed of dog that exhibits correct temperament to breed standard may not be what one pet owner considers "best temperament" for them personally.

Therefore this dog does not have an "incorrect or bad temperament" but the pet owner perhaps has not done their home work comprehensively or has not been honest with themselves regarding their capabilities or lifestyle.

For me breeding is about the whole package - health, type and temperament.

Temperament is of utmost importance to me, particularly in my breed.

But that still does not mean that a Rottweiler with correct temperament is for everybody.

I will even go one step further and say that often the most ideal pet only Rottweilers often have slightly incorrect temperaments, yet make for a brilliant pet.

I am sure similarly could be said for many working dog breeds.

So then in a litter bred by an ethical registered breeder that always endeavours to produce the best puppies on every level, there may be a pup or two that exhibit a temperament that could be more suitably homed in a pet style situation. These breeders would know this and home these pups accordingly.

For a pet person, these pups and breeders are gold if you can find them.

If I was looking to purchase a pet only, I would still look for a breeder that breeds as closely to breed standard as they possibly can and produce show quality puppies that work well... but I would be open with the breeder about what I wanted in my pet and ensure they chose me the puppy to suit what I had to offer.

I would not choose to buy a pup bred by breeder with less expectations, goals and ethics perhaps breeding for the pet market because they usually have no idea what they are producing and the pup would likely not have as good a temperament as the forementioned pup.

^^^ this

Temperament does come high on the list for me, but not to make "perfect pets". I follow the standard in all aspects as closely as I can and that includes temperament, and the temperament of a Weimaraner is a working dog, bred to be a multifunctional gundog breed that can hunt all day and go home at night and be with their master. I wouldn't be able to breed for temperament alone if i bred a dog who conformationally couldn't work all day, however I do aim, possibly higher than others, to breed for the correct temperament, and not the type of temperament that suits an everyday family who just wants a pet.

My foundation bitch has a few faults I'm very aware of, conformationally, but her temperament when it comes to work ethic and endurance far exceeded my expectations in the breed. I simply took into account a great deal when i chose for her a stud dog. I chose one that complemented her good points, as well as had conformation that could improve on hers in their pups. The result was a very good one, because i did,for the most part, breed pups better than her conformationally, but maintained the temperament I wanted. I breed for the whole package, and I'll go out of my way to find the best possible matches so that I can achieve this.

What is your goal with your dogs?

Titles? Wins? Other achievements? Health? Fitness? Life skills?

Do you have a goal? Do you have a philosophy that guides your efforts in dogs?

1 .I want to maintain balance. As many have mentioned, priority is to enjoy living with my dogs. Something I think that sometimes gets 'lost' when people start getting 'into dogs' and the numbers start to rise. I want to make sure I continue to enjoy them as part of my home, life and lifestyle which means I have to ensure that number stay manageable and that sometimes I have to 'limit' what I do and be sure I have other interests as well so that I don't lose sight of why I got the dogs in the first place. .

2. I want to understand the breed. I want to 'see' that instinct and functionality and see the dogs in action and understand how they work. I spend hours just being with the dogs (my own and others) and observing how they 'operate' and learning how they react and think. Hours researching and learning about how the breed works, how it operated historically (beyond the popular lip service potted history), how their structure and nature supports that function (e.g. WHY should they have a sloping croup or small low set ears, or the back of the skull is an oglive shape ). To me that is an important part of understanding the breed and determining what my goals will be.

3. A lot of lip service is often paid with lines like 'breeding for health, temperament and structure' etc. I won't use that line as half the time I am not sure people really understand what they mean by that when they say it. It can also mean lots of different things to diferent people. my goal here though is to understand what health issues are in the breed, to try to know to the extent possible how my dogs and their lines 'stack up' health -wise and to use the resources available to me to determine that. This means health testing and understanding what those results mean and using that information in my decision making. It also means looking to the overall health and wellbeing of my dogs through the best possible diet, exercise and lifestyle I can give them. It means understanding what makes a 'sound dog' in mind and in body and working to produce that. It means working to produce a 'unctional dog' (see goal two).

4. To teach people about the breed and how it is not just (or not even) a 'big fluffy white dog'. There is a LOT of misunderstanding about the breed out there and I want to represent it well.

5. To look ater the welfare and future of the breed. All the above goes into this one. I see my involvement as part of a long timeline stretching forward and back. I want to be part of the stream that carries the breed forward and makes a difference, not a murky backwater or offshoot from the original design and purpose. this means ensuring MY goals are the BREEDS goals and (as my motto says) putting the Breed before any thought of my own ego and design in being a 'breeder'.

6. while it would be nice to 'win' in the showring, my goal is not to produce a generic big fluffy white show dog (which is NOT what the breed is or should ever be), but to produce good, functional, traditional examples of the breed. If that results in wins, that is nice but my main aim when in the ring is for people to see the breed and to represent the breed.

I am sure there is more, but that will do for now.

This is pretty much what I'd like to answer, except this response is so well articulated I had to quote it instead. Replace "big fluffy white dog" with "big shorthaired grey dog" and that's my answers.

maybe they are confused and the pup is actually a kelpie?!

fairly sure it's in the COE that registered breeders shouldn't sell pups before 8 weeks. Maybe you should remind them of that. it's pretty common knowledge that pups shouldn't go before 8 weeks. I'd be questioning how much they know at all.