dogbesotted

The problem with MCTs is that they actually appear in many different ways. Lucindas original tumour as a fastgrowing limp. Within 10 days it was the size and shape of a large goose egg, and inflamed. The second suspicious lump( on her back) is about the size of a small pea and bluish in clours, the third lump( on her chest near the original site) has the appearance of a lump of normal skin. BTW: Pampa that pic look like a histiocytoma They can appear wart like, firm pink lumps etc. That have been referred to as "the great pretenders". Hence the diagnosis is by fine needle aspirate or excision and lab analysis. we need to remember that mostly a lump is just a lump. here is a good link to various cutaneous tumours with descriptions and photos. So those of us who are lump phobic- such as myself- can spend every second of every day panicking about lumps. I will add that Lucindas lump did not ressemble any of the mcts shown here in the vetmed link. http://www.vetmed.auburn.edu/distance/clin...d/slide_10.html http://www.vetinfo.com/pmastcelltumors.html ( Lucindas looke like a very large version of these. http://www.upstatevetspecialists.com/mast_cell_tumors.php

Jodie, Yep Lucinda does have other lumps. And another one appeared this past week <sigh> I have chosen not to get them aspirated as I dont want her to end up looking like a patchwork dog..and the first tumour removal did not get clean margins and i believe that stress is really something to avoid. The sweet lady is not too bad at the moment. Looks a bit bedraggled but otherwise coping quite well. Sending Ollie boy heaps of hugs and tickles. Helen

Lucinda is doing quite well...i think the cooler weather makes her feel more comfortable . I have been penning her at night otherwise she exhausts herself patrolling around the house yeard ALL NIGHT. we have had a fox decimating the goose flock ( now down to one solitary goose!) and of course Lucinda feels the need to patrol, baying and carrying on. The whole neighbourhood has been quite noisy for the past two weeks so I think brer fox has been doing the rounds. Tonight I will let Guiness McGuinness and Grace have acces to the front paddock and see what happens. Last time it was a dead fox come morning. Helen and The Maremma Crew The fair Lucinda, Oscar, Margali, Dennys Dog, Guiness McGuinness, Grace, Gina, Angelina, Lucky, Alex and Angel.

Erny, here is the abstract: Your vet can obtain the full paper..but it does cost so i did not get it ( sorry) Abstract Journal of the American Veterinary Medical Association February 15, 2005, Vol. 226, No. 4, Pages 556-561 doi: 10.2460/javma.2005.226.556 Secretion of sex hormones in dogs with adrenal dysfunction Kate E. Hill, BVSc, DACVIMJ. Catharine R. Scott-Moncrieff, VetMB, MS, DACVIMMark A. Koshko, DVMLawrence T. Glickman, VMD, DrPHNita W. Glickman, PhDRichard W. Nelson, DVM, DACVIM William E. Blevins, DVM, DACVRJack W. Oliver, DVM, PhD Department of Small Animal Medicine, School of Veterinary Medicine, West Lafayette, IN 47909. (Hill, Scott-Moncrieff, Koshko); Present address is the Department of Small Animal Clinical Sciences, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Tennessee, Knoxville, TN 37996. (Hill); Department of Veterinary Pathobiology, School of Veterinary Medicine, West Lafayette, IN 47909. (Glickman, Glickman); Department of Medicine and Epidemiology, School of Veterinary Medicine, University of California, Davis, CA 95616. (Nelson); Department of Diagnostic Imaging, School of Veterinary Medicine, West Lafayette, IN 47909. (Blevins); Department of Comparative Medicine, College of Veterinary Medicine, University of Tennessee, Knoxville, TN 37996. (Oliver) Objective—To evaluate adrenal sex hormone concentrations in response to ACTH stimulation in healthy dogs, dogs with adrenal tumors, and dogs with pituitary- dependent hyperadrenocorticism (PDH). Design—Prospective study. Animals—11 healthy control dogs, 9 dogs with adrenal-dependent hyperadrenocorticism (adenocarcinoma [ACA] or other tumor); 11 dogs with PDH, and 6 dogs with noncortisol-secreting adrenal tumors (ATs). Procedure—Hyperadrenocorticism was diagnosed on the basis of clinical signs; physical examination findings; and results of ACTH stimulation test, low-dose dexamethasone suppression test, or both. Dogs with noncortisol-secreting ATs did not have hyperadrenocorticism but had ultrasonographic evidence of an AT. Concentrations of cortisol, androstenedione, estradiol, progesterone, testosterone, and 17-hydroxyprogesterone were measured before and 1 hour after IM administration of 0.25 mg of synthetic ACTH. Results—All dogs with ACA, 10 dogs with PDH, and 4 dogs with ATs had 1 or more sex hormone concentrations greater than the reference range after ACTH stimulation. The absolute difference for progesterone, 17-hydroxyprogesterone, and testosterone concentrations (value obtained after ACTH administration minus value obtained before ACTH administration) was significantly greater for dogs with ACA, compared with the other 3 groups. The absolute difference for androstenedione was significantly greater for dogs with ACA, compared with dogs with AT and healthy control dogs. Conclusions and Clinical Relevance—Dogs with ACA secrete increased concentrations of adrenal sex hormones, compared with dogs with PDH, noncortisol-secreting ATs, and healthy dogs. Dogs with noncortisol-secreting ATs also have increased concentrations of sex hormones. There is great interdog variability in sex hormone concentrations in dogs with ACA after stimulation with ACTH. (J Am Vet Med Assoc 2005;226:556–561) PDF (176 KB) PDF Plus (167 KB)

fingers crossed for a good outcome here. You are both going through so much. speak to your vet about perhaps using some slippery elm ( Ulmus fulva)for settling the tummy. it comes in a powdered form and can be easily added to food or broth. Hugs Helen

http://www.vet.utk.edu/diagnostic/endocrin...client_info.pdf http://avmajournals.avma.org/doi/abs/10.24...urnalCode=javma

Hey do not panic! for goodness sake. I was just throwing in some comments NOT saying that Kal has this or hasnt. As there is an adrenal tumour ...then adrenal tumours can/may cause atypical cushings when they are secreting normal levels of cortisol; adrenal tumours present with a variety of increases in adrenal steriods and cortisol may not always be one of them. atypical cushings is due to the changes in enzyme function in the adrenal pathways that prevent the normal flow of synthesis to the endpoints of cortisol and aldosterone; with build-up of adrenal intermediates, such as androstenedione, progesterone and 17-hydroxyprogesterone. These intermediates, in turn, are converted into sex steroids (usually etradiol ). This can/may be caused by an adrenal tumour. it is worth considering even if only to totally discount. The process of elimination goes on. Just a thought. Cheers Helen There is a good contact person in the states. if you like I can Pm his details. ( it is from another list i belong to so i cannot post publically)

I have been mulling over this. If Kals blood tests are nor shopwing the results that would point to cushings disease..has Atypical cushings been considered/ ruled out. 1. Hyperadrenocorticism is caused by either a tumor in the hypothalamic-pituitary area (PDH/Cushing's disease) or in the adrenal glands (ADH), or both. Atypical Cushing's disease can be present with either of these conditions, but cortisol increase often is not present; probably due to steroidogenic enzyme defects in the adrenal glands. 2. Atypical Cushing's disease is caused by changes in enzyme function in the adrenal pathways that prevent the normal flow of synthesis to the endpoints of cortisol and aldosterone; with build-up of adrenal intermediates, such as androstenedione, progesterone and 17-hydroxyprogesterone. These intermediates, in turn, are converted into sex steroids (usually estradiol, not testosterone). This can be genetic, congenital, or due to disruption of enzyme activity by an adrenal tumour. 3. Cortisol is increased in dogs with typical Cushing's syndrome (PDH/ADH), and allows a diagnosis to be made with the usual diagnostic tests, such as ACTH stimulation or low dose dexamethasone suppression; however, there are a variety of hormonal presentations in dogs with atypical Cushing's disease, and most often, cortisol is either normal or suppressed. 4. It is very common for dogs with atypical Cushing's disease to have an elevation of progesterone and 17-hydroxyprogesterone (17-OHP).

Erny, You are still in control of what is going on..YOU have decided to trust the vets who are treating Kal, YOU have decided to learn and research as much as possible and YOU are the one who is Kals primary carer..because you are not a specialist then YOU have sought their opinions, recommendations etc. Thinking of you both Hugs Helen

the first case of erlichiosis was diagnosed in Australia in 2001. Here is some further info. http://www.tickalert.org.au/tickdise.htm

Erlichiosis is believed to be endemic in Northern Queensland. and the Nt I think. Will check

It is so very frustrating when a typical presentation does not occur. However it sure sounds like Kal is in good hands. Hugs Helen

Pampa, Doxycycline seesm to be the drug of choice. here are a few links...more tomorrow I am in the middle of doing my BAS for the quarter sigh I hate paperwork LOl). I am trying to track down recent research. I also agree with teh advice of chuck the good stuff and keep the memories. Memories of what life is made up of, those of the past, those being made now and those that will be made in the future. http://www.dvmnewsmagazine.com/dvm/article...=60050&pageID=2 http://aac.asm.org/cgi/content/full/42/2/362 http://www.cliniciansbrief.com/0503consultantoncall.htm ( may be worth subscribing to get this one) Thinking of you both Helen

any news Erny?

bloody hell Pampa.!!!! I would have thought the vet would have checked for that beforehand. esp as the poor lass was not responding to treatment. so much time has been wasted. will do some seeking of more information. in the meantime keep your chin up. HUgs Helen

Jodie, Lucinda had a wonderfull weekend! Everytime I cuddle her or even see her i think of Ollie. How is your little man?

Acupuncture can be useful for behaviour problems( anxiety, agression, depression, grief, etc) TTouch may also help Camomile is very calming, Oats for nervousness. . Maybe a consult with a good holistic vet may give you more options..

Pampa, My avatar features a painting of a sleeping maremma LOL. I am now a maremma only zone with Lucinda, Oscar, Margali, Dennys Dog, Guiness McGuinness, Angelina, Gina, Grace, Alex, Angel, and Lucky .... Lucinda and Oscar are my very first maremmas...little did I know they would become an addiction. Gina, Grace and Lucky are failed fosters, Dennys Dog and Guiness mcGuinness are litter brothers, sons of Margali. Yesterday some friends came to see Alex with a view to adoption..they have a property that is close to heaven on earth www.cloudlake.com and they are going to adopt Alex and Angel . which is a real thrill. Luckily most of the people who have adopted maremmas from here keep in touch and i get to visit them ones that are close by frequently. the details for some of my guys are here: www.willaurafarm.com The site is still a work in progress next additions in May this year. Hopefully there will be more then about the maremmas, the sheep, the fosters, and the wildlife. Today Lucinda is having a really great day which is wonderful.

Hey Erny dont be so hard on yourself. It is all a learning curve, sometimes incredibly steep. I knew nothing at all when Lucinda was first diagnosed. Did heaps of reading, joined two groups for ppl with dogs with cancer and kept asking questions. Barbara Fougere was helpful as well. Casper taught me all about thyroid, adrenals etc, Morris led me to a better diet for my dogs and a refusal to vaccinate annually( Thrombocytopenia, bladder stones and finally lymphoma), Jake gave me lessons about dog allergies and a short hard heartwrenching lesson about dilated cardiomyopathy. Oscar is teaching me about bowel blockages and prostate..and so it goes on. Lucky God Bless his anxious little soul is teaching me about helping shy and anxious dogs. The Divine Miss Sophie taught me about the will to live.

Lucinda has been doing very well until about 6 months ago....blood tests all clear. But now she is not as active and has had some very down times, but bounces back. I suspect it is all a matter of balance. If she is in balance then the mast cells dont get too active, if anything upsets that balance: stress or whatever then it allows the Mast cells to get a bit of an upper hand. Then we add a bit more support in for her immune system. She will not have any more surgery as she does not cope at all well with anaesthetics or stress. In addition seeing the original surgery failed to get clean margins ..there is little to gain. Radiation and chemo were not offered originally. Quality of life has always been the major consideration and she certainly is having that... Lucinda turns 9 in August and hopefully we will have a big birthday celebration

I have kept a diary of most of the treatments( through a compliation of posts to Barbara ( Lucindas holistic vet and the canine cancer list.)....everytime I revisit it I get a shock remembering how desperate things were initially..never in my wildest dreams did I ever allow myself to think that she may still be here with me over 3.5 years later. God has been kind. Now he/she just needs to be kinder. initially Lucinda was getting weekly Vit C by iv, quercetin, hoxsey,chinese meds, salmon oil, additional Vit C daily ( ester C plus a vit C with bioflavinoids) and 5 mushrrom extract. That was then reduced down to 2-3 times weekly. we restart weekly iv's next week. About two months ago we went back up to daily..she is getting weaker now but does have a good appetite.

Ok here is Lucindas own topic! We are hopefully heading for 4 years post diagnosis ( dxd: late August 2002). MCT grade 3 no clean margins. Lucinda is has been totally holisticcally treated since November 2002.

Jodie, IF Ollie is having a histamine release problem I would speak to the vet about something like carafate to protect the GI tract..the histamines can cause ulceration. I am not sure if slippery elm has the same effect..but I will check. At one stage when Lucinda was very bad she had bleeding , she was put on carafate ( she was already on antihistamines.) The dear girl is slowing down...we get little ups tho and she is still eating with gusto - provided it is prime rump on the menu. Day by day we take it.

Jodie, Just to let you know Ollie is constantly in my thoughts and prayers. I really HATE histamines. Is Ollie on something to protect his GI tract? Hugs Helen

jeez Erny what can i say? For what it is worth i think you are doing the right thing with the human garde food..Lucinda is now on prime rump LOL, and human grade chicken. Can you try 5-6 small meals for Kal..that may be easier for her to keep down. also add some digestive enzymes ( you need to mix in and wait for 10 mins before feeding). I too have all appendages crossed..... Hugs Helen