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Just something I've been thinking about for a few days since it was semi-referred to in another thread. If you have a high drive dog bred for something specific i.e a kelpie, does the training in drive work satisfy that need to work or herd if you're doing something against what the dog is bred for? I.e is the dog going to be fully satisfied with training in drive, or is there going to be a small part of the dog thats "square peg in a round hole" kind of thing? What about a "hard core" working dog like a working bred ACD? Just curious to see what others thoughts are?

The competition is being advertised ONLY in very rural orientated papers. Not even in the WT. Don't know too many non-farming people who read the StocknLand... or any of the other papers its being advertised in for that matter. The competition is being done to advertise the Casterton auction.... know what happens at Casterton? You rock up, look at the dogs, watch them work, register yourself as a bidder and buy yourself a dog. You can't guarantee a good environment for the dog.... but then again you can't do that regardless. Look at how many breeders on this forum have sold dogs to "loving homes" only to have the dog returned to them or worse still sold on! If you've watched the video at all and know anything about working dogs, you'd see a young pup thats going to be a pretty handy dog when he's older. He's also been trained by a well known trainer who has previously sold dogs to $7000 at Casterton. Most farmers I know will pass a dog on (i.e sell or giveaway) if they have no further use for it - no-one wants to see a good dog shot. In fact my Dad picked up his best bitch like this, and sold her on a few years later when he retired from farming and she couldn't hack town life. IMHO this kelpie has a far better chance of ending up in a good environment than your average pet shop puppy....

Spend enough time in the agriculture field and you will come across competitions to win stud cattle, horses/ponies, a stud ram/ewe. The "general public" i.e non-farming community rarely even hear about it because its never advertised outside it. You wouldn't enter a competition to win a stud heifer if you didn't have anywhere to put her, or a competition to win a stud service with nothing to use it over. Same with a working dog, unless you have the work or requirement for it, you wouldn't enter. Farmers don't tend to "impulse buy" a working dog. Completely different target audiences! And where did anyone say in this thread about shooting them?

Some of the things I've been picked up for in stays (training) are pushing my glasses back up my nose, catching my hat before it blew off in a sudden gust of wind and shooing flies.... quite amazing that anyone would even try to use such things as an extra signals but again it comes down to that line in the sand that makes it black and white....

You've taken me out of context there Tapferhund, if you read my post I was referring to BL's post re dogs should be dogs and getting bored or making themselves comfortable, not your OP.

From my very limited trialling & stewarding experience, all the judges I've worked with/been judged under have been willing to give the handler every chance possible to further encourage them on, but thats all been at CCD level. I have been pinged a few points here and there for things like extended signal (mostly out of nerves than any intent). But they've all been minor deductions points wise. Wouldn't you approach the VCA rep on the day, especially if its against whats in the rule book? BL - thats obedience trialling for you, just like any other high level dog activity - 0.1 of a second slow on an agility course is the difference between going home with a pass and going home empty handed.

I have a training one - last week we started a new block for training, so the class 3/4 dogs do a short obedience demo for everyone at the start. I've started using a bumbag for training/reward, its generally got her toy and food inside. Normally I give her the release word and she will retreive the bag for me and bring it back for her treat. I threw it about 10 metres behind us it so it was out of the way. Did the demo nicely, we were asked to do a recall. Left Darcy with her back to the group and walked away. Gave her the recall command, she ran towards me for several metres, changed directions and collected the bumbag on the way past and did a lovely sit in front, bag in mouth for me to take it and give her her treat! It got quite a few giggles from the crowd watching and no she didn't get her treat, well not until she did it properly! ;) Was just too tempting for her!

Given the prices for a top dog have gone to $7K, and the lowest prices for potentials with some experience is about $700+, i reckon most farmers would be very happy ;)

I see no problem with this competition at all, it is only being advertised in rural papers (haven't seen it in the WT) and farmers aren't the type of people to enter such competitions on a whim. If the dog was surplus to requirements then chances are it would be sold to someone who did need a good dog.

For everyday training I buy the "doggy cool" treats out of the chilled pet section at the supermarket - nice and soft and easy to eat quickly! I find if I use hard or firm treats I lose my fingers too often... I worry about her choking on the harder ones, and they take that bit longer to eat. For a really high level reward I use cooked chicken or steak!

I have the same problem WMR, practising stays is the worst - with others yelling if their dog attempts to break... poor Darcy sits their looking quite put out by the ruckus, so I have to verbally reassure her... thank dog we're getting past the breaking dog stage in class

Certainly are Helen, I got Darcy measured back in mid-March and haven't received anything at all

I am incredibly lucky to go to a club who is very flexible with what we do with our dogs once we get to a level. I.e even in lower classes, if it is recognised that you are working well with your dog and getting results then you're able to be flexible providing it is not leading the other partipants astray. Even as a 1st time dog owner I have a lot of say/discussion on how my dog gets trained/what I do with my dog. But we have none of the politics/one-upmanship or personal agendas that some clubs seem to deal with, and for that I am very grateful!

I've done obedience with Darcy from day dot, never really taken it seriously til I seen/stewarded my 1st ever obedience trial in mid-March. Decided that it didn't look as scary as it sounded, entered her in a trial for the end of March, got two passes and two thirds. Entered Easter trial and came away with a NQ and a pass (2nd on a countback) and her CCD title at 16 months 1 week. I'm pretty happy with that cos Darcy's my first dog As for agility, well she's not old enough yet, she'll be two weeks too young for Ballarat next weekend :p She turns 18 months in June, and there's no more local trials til October

Good on you - glad it went well Nice when you slot right in - I found that with my current club :D

Thanks for posting that info SM - I've not had the chance to watch UD at a trial yet so wondered exactly how it was done. WMR - yes I got that bit, I just wanted to know more about how it was actually done

For a complete obedience dummy, can somone run me through the whole task of scent discrimination i.e whats actually required. Just might help me understand it all better thats all

K9: you should have just emailed me, unlimited email support with all the private consults I do, even yours in Victorai! lol.. mmmm yes I know, its so easy to ask a question when you know what the question is.... Will email you anyway - have a further suspicion as to whats going on!

By throwing away the prey drive toy you are throwing away the reward. The idea is that YOU own the reward, the dog has to come to you to gain it.

Dammit Steve you make it sound so easy! ;) Arya I have to thank you for asking such a question - have been tearing my hair out since my second trial as to what was going on with my dog, yes we got passes, even placings and her CCD title but I kept thinking "she can do so much better than this" ;) Now the lights just gone on ;) I hadn't tried the out of sight stuff, I have the trigger word but not the out of sight work.... thanks again Steve!! ;)

As a newbie to trialling its interesting to hear more and more stories re: dogs doing stuff they've never, ever done before in trials.... my dog did it to me at trial no. 3 after a lovely heel pattern, and a perfect SFE. She blew the recall: lifted her butt, stuck her nose on the ground and sniffed her way towards me at a wander... then dropped about 2 metres out. Was completely gobsmacked.... was just her reminding me that she's not perfect and like me she makes mistakes FWIW she redeemed herself beautifully the next day giving us her final pass for her CCD title and a 2nd on countback with 94 - but it certainly made it stressful

It worked for me earlier on but now getting the same message as sMs

Yes I must admit I looked at the weather forecast and subtracted 5C for the cold wind that seems to blow constantly through that park...

Didn't manage to catch up with anyone other than ISH (who can fill you in later on her fantastic results ). Pretty happy with our results; Darcy worked really well this morning - we scored a pass and a third This arvo was a bit different, didn't work so well and missed a sit or two so I honestly thought we'd blown it when I walked out of the ring, but we pulled off another pass and another third.

Thanks Wagalot Darcy looks like a black lab but she's kelpie x lab - look for a crazy feral dragging her owner off her feet with a tug toy Me - best described as "solid build" with short brown hair and will have grey camo everlast hat on (only one guaranteed not to blow off if its windy!!)