Gottalovealab

Exactly, Erny, good post. Why would they even bother, when there is a readily avaliable food source. It requires little or no effort to scavenge from humans.

Im sure that these feral dogs are going back to their primative instincts, which is to band together? Whether they breed or hunt together, or neither, i don't think it would matter. Wolves and dogs don't like to be alone and certainly as has been pointed out, a wild wolf has a hard time living on its own (its basically impossible). I feel these feral dogs are still to close to their human companions, to form a well thought out hunting strategy. If you we're to give it time ( a few spare centuries ) and take out the human influence, what would you observe then? 8 below, great movie No doubt its easier to scavenge ones food if its avaliable. Imagine what the wolves thought when white man came over to mainland USA and brought their cattle. They must have thought they hit the jackpot Wolves can be scavengers as much as they are hunters, its only natural to get the "quick fix" if it means survival. edited cause the emoticon thingy didn't work

Thanks for the link, Sardog. Off to go read

Going back to you're earlier post, Erny on releasing a domesticated "pack" of dogs into the wild, i agree with what you say. I feel many of the instincts would re-surface, despite the thousands of years of domestication.

Ok, this is different to what I have seen/read. From what i have heard (and seen in docos) The social structure, is much more rigid than what you explain here. Without a rigid social structure, the pack would not function as well as it could. This includes everything from when they go out hunting and who gets to eat first, Without this, tension arises. I agree with you here to a certain degree. Yes many of the pack are made up of juvenile offspring, but many are not. There are many long standing wolves within a wolf pack (other than the Alpha's). If each individual juvenile wolf was kicked out of the pack, then it would not grow and expand. At the same time, i would disagree with the power inbalance. From very early on, they find their own way into the pack and they own ranking within (those that don't get kicked out). I totally agree with you on this statement here and this is what wer were discussing above. Through thousands of years of human impact, things have changed. Dogs have become more custom to living in a "perfect world" and so have relaxed many of their basic instincts

Each dog differs, Cazzaritch. The guidelines are just that, GUIDELINES. You are the best at working how much you dogs need. If they are looking a little fat to you, reduce. If a little underweight, give more. As shek said, You should beable to feel their ribs when you run you're hand down their flank, but you shouldn't see them. And don't let those labs fool you into thinking they need more Gluttons that they are

Oops. Spelling error. :p Yes - there's the Alpha and generally speaking, the Beta and Omega. In the wolf packs I think I recall reading that there is the virtual "vertical" heirarchy system. Being in the wild - open to predation as well as being completely reliant on predatory (ie hunting) co-operation - I think it is important for social animals to have a 'system' of pack order so that the organisation runs smoothly and continues to do so in the event of change (eg. Alpha becoming maimed or killed). But I do believe that different environments within which the dogs live has an impact on the way packs are organised. I think that there is commonly the alpha amongst the dogs (excluding the human 'pack leader') but that it does not go to follow that there is always a Beta and so on and so forth until the very last, the Omega. I think that there are small groups that are not so vertically arranged as their wolf cousins perhaps are. I read about this somewhere and it was something I meant to return to - and I THINK it was Coppenger, or perhaps Lorenz?. Regardless of who it was I read (and it may have been more than one reading/author source), the gyst of it was that the greater the degree of predatory risk and pressure, the greater the import of having precise pack structure. I do think that some dogs amongst the (albeit small) packs we have in domestication, fall into the non-descript category of "follower", but that a specific role may be metered out to it (or contested by it) in the event of heirarchy upheavel/change (eg. dog-leader aging; loss of dog-pack member etc.). Thanks for the spelling, Erny, its late I would like to see the article in question, sounds like an interesting read. Again, you are right in regards to environmental pressure and the impact it has. Right down to the amount of pups a wolf has in a year (but i am going a little OT here). You have put it into a perspective that i did not look at previous, it makes a lot more sense. I think maybe the pressure being lifted somewhat have made our domesticated dogs.... soft?? (for the want of a better word) if im in the same mind frame as you Spelling again

If you look at a wolf family structure, they are in order, From the Alpha, Beta and all the way down to the Omega. In their society, pack hierarchy maintains stability and allows the pack to function well. Certainly, thousands of years of human impact, would have changed this some-what. But i still believe they are all in order.

Ok, so why do you not feed puppy food in the first place?? If its about protein and fat levels being too high, why are you compensating with a food that is equal (or more) in both? IMO i would stick with a general adult food, you then lower the risk of you're pups bones growing too quickly and having problems later on down the track.

I am sorry to hear of Tommy's passing Shek , but it sounds like he had a great life RIP little man, boss my Jake around at the bridge, he was a pushover :p :rolleyes:

Ah those naughty labs, who would want one with all this destructive behaviour?? :D He will slowly grow out of his chewing (Kobi grew out of his when he was 6 months ) usually around 2ish- 3. I consider myself lucky, Kobi is not a chewer, but he does dig a bit still (hes 3). My first lab, was exactly like yours, chewing, digging and just being a general naughty boy.Quite normal really

Goodbye, Harley. May you RIP

How old is you're puppy?? I doubt it is a dominance thing, more so he just sees you're leg as another vertical post :D

So sorry to hear of your loss, Ellz RIP Beautiful boy

Your all doing it wrong

i m never going to live this down.........

RIP Page. May you go in peace and be free of pain. Im so sorry Ambervale

I feed mine Eagle Pack, i made the change ages ago and have never looked back. I highly reccomend it.

Cordy needs to get in here i think

Who can stay away from a black lab puppy ;) I hate leaving mine as well, even though he has my grandparents to keep him company.... but the face he gives me as im walking out the door, it breaks my heart sometimes ;) But the best thing is to come home to a lab that is just about ready to bowl you over as you get through the door!! its the highlight of my day I demand pics of your Jedda too ;) , considering the bloodline

Oh jed you had me rolling around on the floor

Siv, Gottalovealab and Blacklabrador, do you give 16 week shot considering after the 12 weeks they are 97% safe? Or do you just consider 12 weeks ok to socialise and still give the 16 week shot. I am very new to this so I appreciate everyone's opinion. Kool, how DO you socialise your dogs other than ice skating? I just want to be the best parent I can possibly be...I don't know, perhaps I am being too anal and worrying too much but I just want to do the right thing by Bronson. He is just so adorable, if I could learn how to get my photos smaller I would post a shot of him... I personally give my 16 week booster, some don't such as siv. As said previously 10 days is needed after the 12 weeker to give the 97% Puppies are show at 12 weeks and are exposed to all dogs plus the ground (which in most cases is a pubic place). Inside your parents house and out in the backyard should be fine. Remember Parvo can live in the soil for up to a year after it has been put there. I wouldn't be taking him out the front or on the footpath etc. (carry him if you have to, parvo is in the soil and feacal matter)

Wow kool, you have some excellent pointers there for the OP, dont you?

To the OP, the risks are always there, wherever you go and whatever age your dog is. Many people, such as myself, would risk such things (of course within reason, i mean im not about to take my 10 week old puppy to the local park) in controlled situations. Diseases can be picked up anywhere. Unfortunatley you are caught between a time when your puppy is at a higher risk of catching something and also when your puppy needs the most socialisation. If you are leaning towards not going to puppy pre-school then there are certainly different avenues to take. How about having a doggie get together at your place with friends? Making sure that each dog is vaccinated of course.

So Kool, are you saying that you wouldn't allow your puppy out for a period of 12 months? how do you think the dog feels when its comes out for the first time at that age. You have missed the VITAL stages of a dogs life where it needs to learn as much as it can! The risks are always there, yes, there is never 100% guarantee, but nothing is. IMO the risks are much lower if you can be in a situation that you can control and a place where all puppies have been given their first shots is certainly a start.