Alpha

I use "wait" for both but the release incorporates their name so I would be "Gemma Come" or "gemma Free"....Lawson did anticipate earlier on with this and would move on his name but later took his lead from Gemma and followed her in his actions. My two play together at the off lead park but if Gem is approached by another dog or bitch...even if both know the other dog...Lawson gets antsy and possesive over Gem if the other dog does not approach him first, he will try and herd Gem away from the other dog. She on the other hand will stand her ground and bluntly put him in his box If the other dog approaches him first, he's fine with that. Interesting point leopuppy04 about food and toys, Gem is toy orientated/play motivated and Lawson is STRICTLY a GUTSACHE GARBAGE MACHINE

;) Have not heard of that one. There used to be a natural tablet called "BE CALM" which I used for my ACD boy before a trial, so he did'nt get too hyped up about other dogs. White lidded bottle, green label. I used to get mine from Direct Pets Supplies in Preston/Northcote ( Vic)

Could it be excited piddles or "unsure of what I need to do" wee? Lawson was fine, pooing outside, letting us know when he needed to go, but would come inside and whizz. whiz, whizz I realised it was when the kids were inside/home and he was excited to see them but other times it was because he was confused as to why he was inside as I would let him in at varying times. I changed his inside time to a routine, ( AM after kids were at school for an hour or so and again after lunch ) then no inside once the kids were home until they had greeted him OUTSIDE and he had settled, inside time was again before tea for a play with the kids and then later for a cuddle and a nap.

How many dogs do you have? Two How often do you train etc. Gem is retired so only "trains" for fun and exercise daily, Lawson trains twice daily or more Do you find it hard to train all of them? No, as they are at different ends of the spectrum What are their rough ages - ie: are some retired, do you have multiple dogs at trialling level? Retired ( 13 yo)and Class Two (15months old) Do you feel that you have enough time for each dog? definitely Do you have multiple breeds to train or do you only have the one breed? Any preferences in working style? I have have ACD's in the past, Gem is an ACD and now we have Lawson who is a Koolie. Koolies are more switched onand have a definitive on/off mode to work, ACDs take time to settle from play to work, you cannot ge tthem too revved up before training. Koolies revel in the sudden switch to work or play mode and back agian..its a dynamic part of their training and keeps them occupied and focussed.

Yep, i forgot too with two garbage guts ACD who could catch a fly in a cyclone :D I hardly had to "train" them to do it at all. I found telling Lawson to 'catch" let him know it was coming at him. Now if I forget to say "catch" he lets it drop to the floor

I'm with a few others about higher classes earlier to "showcase" what's possible to the newbies. Also , more encouragement towards competition by way of INFORMATION. Tell them about the fun day comps and what the other classes do it for. Explain about a trial, the classes, the exercises , etc. Explain the practical and competition "WHYS" of the exercises. I would even go so far as an info tour during a club trial for newbies, complete with free lunch, and a chat with some seasoned handlers at each level. I know we are all busy at trials but we were all there once and think about what got you a) interested B)encouraged you to compete and C) kept you focussed when things went wrong. Information about agility, fly ball, herding, tracking should all be made availiable as part of the disicpline. Edited b/c I thought of some more: Less of this "off hands" stuff of "we teach you how to train your dog, not train your dog for you"...if a handler does'nt get it...show them with their dog. That way they realise that 1) their dog can do it and 2) they see the command/signal given properly

WTF...some people are a waste of oxygen...TRUELY. Although I am in Vic will keep an eye and ear out, the stuff may travel.......

Be Strong ,Hedds, the piece that your Jemma took with her was for her strength, the gap she leaves is for the memories. Your post reminded me so much of our red ACD, Gemma who is coming up 13..Thoughts are with you.

We don't do any formal training but fun stuff like finding kids soxs in the yard , chucking a dumb bell about, we go over to a friends place who has broad jumps etc and do some jumping and retrieving, and have a play with the weaving pegs, and tunnel but its just play. Club does'nt return till Feb and I think first trial is not till March or so in Vic. No matter, any way not trialing until Lawson is 2.

I agree with the comment here and appluade you for making sense of what often are grey areas. I think judges should be currently trialing/training a dog...many are I believe. Stewards, definitely, should be given clear and concise instructions about where to be in the ring. I love it when a judge I'm stewarding for tells me when we reach here on fast pace I want you here for the figure 8. Or I want the articles bought to me up wind/away from the dog. Or they stand one side of an out of sight stay and you stand by the blind watching the judge...there is usually pre commencment instructions on dogs who break, depends on the judge..some say they will retrieve the dog, others want the handler called to retrieve the dog(other dogs may precieve this as an end to the exercise). I thinkit should be mandatory to steward in any ring prior to commencing trailing at that level , its a learning curve, you see things form the other side and for my money; it was like having private tution with a expert with some judges. I agree about the smaller dogs and how they are approached and the need for a modified pattern and distance, they are taking more steps per metre than a larger dog. The approach needs to be changed to a standard; as in appraoch dog then squat to their level, if bending is required ( not good for the back) they mus not lean over the dog. Something like that. Written comment s on the score sheet...yes, yes, yes. THe judge should have to dictate them to the steward or onto a tape player for later transcribing. Things to work on, stuff to watch out for...BRILLANT.

What a Catch 22...like Erny stated It's because the clubs go to the governing bodies "authorised" insurance broker for insurance, if they shopped about , or one ot two clubs pooled resources and employed their own broker they'd get a better deal on insurance with other instances written into their policies than they are'nt getting via the state governing body. I did it a decade ago for a club I belonged to I saved the club over $150 a year in insurance, got other episodes added to the policy, decreased the XS all for the cost of two days research. If everyone took a stance and moved away from the "scratch my back I'll scratch yours" policy of the State canine authorites; the clubs, members etc would be better off. No governing body can make any club take insurance from its "preferred agent", that is restirction of trade and illegal; the premise for my argument for outsourcing my clubs insurance which stood.

Be aware that we were told by the AMo at our council the following: barking at cats, birds, machinery, tradespeople on other properties or vehicle is not permissable nor acceptable reasons for barking. Barking in play or upon your return home is ok if it is limited and not excessive (WTF ) barking at visitors is NOT acceptable, BUT barking at intruders is What if it is my MIL? Whom my OH thinks as a visitor but I see as in intruder???? ;) Keeping a log is a good idea, especially if other dogs in the area are barking or ( as in our case) the neighbours are inciting the dogs to bark if its been a quiet day and they have too many lies in the diary. You can ask to see the diary and request they delete any identifying information, tell them that you want to see the time patterns and causations so to enable you to rectify the problem. Our AMO showed us the diary and it had details like " unable to have upstairs windows open" as an effect on the complainant...BINGO, Gotcha only one house with a second story near us...ipso facto, council declined to allow us to see any subsequent diaries later on as hubby approached the neighbours and they thought council told us who they were It can be hard if you don't see the diaries as you have no real start point for moderating a behaviour or making a change to something like what door you use to leave the house, etc.

Yeah akitaowner, I agree but I checked their so called dB BEFORE i ordered from NZ and if you input "dog collars" you get no restrictions. The guy from AQIS sent me a copy of the ICON dB with "hides and skins" as the primary product which my collar was neither.... why would you input that as the primary produt if it was man made material? I agree I would not want every Tom, DH or Harriet being able to access them but others should be able to...trainers, accredied bodies and the ilk.

I'm just wondering how many people have received letters and if my house is the one specified as the nusiance house...... The council should only have given letters to the properties on the immediate boundry of the 'nuisance house' ie if its yours then it would be the left & right neighbours and the ones over the back BUT in saying that if you are on a large block where there is possible two or three over your back fence (even if it is not their full block) they will also get letters... so possibly 5. Not sure about where you are but that was the case with my complaint but luckily I had really good neighbours that stood up for my boys & said they werent a problem, the council then told the neighbour that complained that there was no case against my dogs Whoa, council gave letters to other HOMES? What letters? Not ones asking if they have a problem with the dogs ,I hope? That is inciting a complaint and CANNOT be done!!! It is up to the primary complaint to appraoch other neighbours and depending on what state you are in one or two have to be ajoining properties to yours, they cannot be across the road or two doors down...other complaints can come from other properties( non adjoining) Have you asked the council if you can see the diaries ( if they exist) to enable you to pinpoint when the problem is occuring...they are helpful ( if completed truthfully) as they usually required a time, duration of barking and causation to be listed which can go a way towards working out if there is a problem and how to resolve it or if it is just viralent complainers. ;)

Rom, whilst I agree with your sentiment in theory. However,what category do I fall into when I can be labelled under the three criteria I underlined in your post and them some? I advocate the use of PCs , have been trained in their use and have used them myself and have done so for over a decade. You comments about those who choose the disicpline of obedience, offended me greatly( and others, I am sure) and detracts greatly from what other wise may have been a noble topic.

Customs opened my package from NZ ( Sender: Real Dog Co) which was a personalised synthetic mesh dog collar. No real reason could be given but if you search the AQIS site and go to their ICON database you can input details of import items, country or origin and destigmation country BUT what they do not tell you is that any parcel lableled "dog collar" will be opened in case it is "un tanned leather" or "second hand and contains dog hair" (WTF?) They are also x rayed and and even then if the label read "new,synthetic mesh dog collar" it may still be opened for random inspection!!! ;) Be a lert, we need LERTS Any one whose interested I can PM a copy of my tete a tete emails with customs about my parcel being opened and inspected, complete with their pathetic attempts to justify their invasive actions.

I train Lawson every day, a bit here, a bit there. In play and general day to day stuff...waiting to be told to come inside sort of stuff. SO its 10-15mins or less several times a day. We walk daily or x2 and work on footwork ( mine, not his ) and heeling, turns, drops, etc. Rest of the time is just larking about but he heels without being told now, at the off lead park we do off lead heeling with dogs charging about after balls, then some retrieving stuff or sec back as a "fun" conclusion to the off lead heeling "work". So we are always training but he might no realise it YET ;) Or does he Gem loves to retrieve although the heart is willing the almost 13 year old legs betray her, so we do some gentle stuff like scent disrimination and sec backs. She likes to strut her stuff and show Lawson how it should be done...especially the off lead heeling work she is seems better now than she was when we were competing. Even thought shes not competeing now, she still needs that mental stimuli to keep her brain as agile as her body wishes it still was. And I love the joy my kids faces when she finds the artilce they hid in the park.

I agree with diamond 2009' comment about other reasons, especially if the time frame for how long it's been going on is exagerrated. From my experience with an 8 month on going complaint...it is usually something else that they cannot control ( maybe you leaving for work early and them hearing your car annoys the neighbours but they cannot complain about that) Are the dogs actually barking? You know this for a fact? Our neighbours were just watching our movements and listing our dogs as barking when they thought we were'nt home...we had friends park down the road and listen or I doubled back and parked down the road. It was'nt happening. Watch out for the "not bothering us" reply as they are ones who hide behind the anominity offered by local governement. If it's not at diary stage with two or more diaries ( I am in Vic but guess its similar elsewhere) they CANNOT investigate, ipso facto, council cannot hang about your area waiting for the dogs to bark...that is harrassment and acting outside the scope of any guidlelines they have. Check your local regs and see what the procedure is. Because the diaries our local govt had were not for the same periods or even close, they could not investigate but we requested them to so to put an end to the matter as once investigated the matter cannot be raised again as a complaint. If they are barking, are they barking at you leaving or after you are gone? Morning walk is probably the go if this is the case. I would be wary of neighbours who protest to much about it no being them...maybe I am just cynical

So so lucky the two single chair recliners were'nt about ..could've been a real problem :D :D

I will search the Hansard for who put up the proposed leg'n and if I work back from there we can get some names, organisations, etc. Erny is right, subs are often not read but b/c of who puts then forward ( Hugely Worthless, et.al) that Govt takes it as the god told truth.

Notice they name the animal welfare organisation but not the "training" organisations, wonder if any behaviouralists or handlers were invited to comment/advise? That is the FATAL flaw with some legislation and becomes the crevice in which to place the lever. Exclusion, purposely or by geninue ommission opens the door for amendments based on other experts testimony and opinion. This has been done with many amendments, albeit, often minute in syntax and change but as the law is rendered, changes the whole meaning and who/what is encompasses. Enough experts to counter what the leg'n states, enough stop gaps to alleviate mis use (Really though, how many people have seen/heard of a lot of mis use of PC's? Who here was not intro to it by an expereienced handler/trainer and given CLEAR, CONCISE instructions as to is uses, benefits and workings.Or used it under supervision. It's useage has been without real trauma WITHOUT monitoring for years)and we may as well give it a try. I am willing to put my time into it......

Definitely, it is easier to have a law "amended" than reversed or abolished. Heck, you can still be arrested for vagrancy if you have less than $5 and no id on you ;) Amemded to authorised handler use or some such wording, justifying the use, pushing the benefits, tying it into the current Companion Animal laws, etc. Would take some push could even appeal to some ego driven politico who wants the amendment named after them...that's a crumb that could be offered.

I can only speak for myself but I think the acceptance of the law comes from the fact that it can not be easily monitored. I was introduced to the use and benefits of pronged collars over a decade ago by a very, very experienced handler and trainer. We never doubted his assurances about it and saw for ourselves the benefits after only TWO DAYS this was on our dog aggro boy, Tolkien. I have seen people training at clubs with PC's; under some less knowledgable and worldly instructors; who did not even realise that had a possible infraction of a law under thier very noses. I have also done this once to prove a point and no one knew or realised. No club wants to be investigated by the VCA or any other regulatory body, so they simply ask the handler not to use the collar at club ( three instances I know of). So, who's going to report it? Training anywhere you want, whose going to get close enough to notice and how many would really realise its not a martingale anyway? Stupid law, yes. But right now, IMO, it's not monitored nor enforced so why draw attention to the many people who may use it. If we were to attempt to ratify its use, you'd have the likes of Worthless et.al and spot inspections at clubs and parks once it became known how widely used it MAY be.

We think so too, although with so many dogs about he would have played with you ZILCH The red dog was adorable, I know she is about two and her owner does obedience ...we chatted for a bit. I think she is a rescue :p Jyra...Annoying like a welcome ray of sunshine...she's lovely. Noise? what noise?

:D I HAD A BALL So much info, so much more than I anticipated which was explored in many varied facets. I, offically, hold the record for the most geographically challenged person on EARTH, arriving a tad late AT 1230 after getting lost no less tha 5 times. Plus having to scoot off when Steve and everyone were having a grand time with questions and such Next time I'm camping out the day BEFORE!! Thanks to Steve & Co and apologies ;) for my tardiness and early exit although it was 1830, I could have listened all night.