sandgrubber

Excellent article. Don't just look at the pictures, read the text!!! There's an excellent discussion of the history of the retriever breeds with respect to coat type.

According to the article, they can already give a 2 yr sentence for owners of attacking dogs. Do they use it? I'm sure they don't. I'd say a 10 yr -- or life -- sentence is too high. The cost of incarceration is high, $30k to $70k / yr are the sorts of figures I've seen. Indirect costs are also high. Someone taken out of the workforce. Kids left without a parent. The incarcerated person often changed into a more hardened criminal, and left with dim employment prospects. So a social cost of half a million or so for a 10 yr sentence. Spending at that level would go a long way toward enforcement of laws and education. And judges, who understand the consequences of incarceration, will tend to duck implementation. If you want a punishment that will really scare them, I'd suggest castration and a lifetime ban on owning dogs. Not that the suggestion will fly.

I would suggest changing the title of the thread; maybe by putting a ? at the end. If it's poly genetic and no one can trace the lines, the breeder is not at fault.

It's amazing to witness those moments isn't it. Penny was a spinner and screamer and I had to watch her with chewing the cord too. On one she got so carried away I feared she's accidentally chew legs off or even a hole in his belly. I had to gently intervene. Years ago, I had a girl who didn't get it at first. She didn't spin and scream . . . she was terrified of the little whelp. Fortunately I had a good vet on call, who said, be calm and patient, put the pups on her, she'll eventually catch on. After the third pup she was fine and she was a great mother for subsequent litters.

I can't form an opinion. It would be useful to know how many people have actually been given jail time before advocating longer sentences. Lock em up and throw away the key hasn't done a great job of resolving drug abuse problems in the USA. Seems likely that the problems are in poor enforcement of existing laws, not in weak penalties.

Really now? Has someone banished poisonous snakes from Australia recently? The main reason to bring your dogs in at night, where I live, is because you like having them near you . . . or you don't want them to bark too much and annoy the neighbors.

+1 beautiful dogs, too!

To answer that you need to know the probability of a torn dew claw, and the likelihood that removal of dew claws will cause problems, such as arthritis described by Dr Zink ...or reduce the dog's functional ability by removing grip. I've never seen a torn dew claw, and my dogs dewclaws are tight to the ankle, so I don't see the probability of a torn dewclaw as high....others have different experiences and weigh the odds differently.

Dr. Christine Zink, the dog sports medicine lady, has a good veterinary article on dewclaws. http://www.caninesports.com/uploads/1/5/3/1/15319800/dewclawexplanation_rev_apr_10_2013.pdf She is specific about the anatomy of dew claw attachment...and claims that dewclaw removal can result in old age arthritis. Quoting from that source: Those muscles indicate that the dewclaws have a function. That function is to prevent torque on the leg. Eachtime the foot lands on the ground, particularly when the dog is cantering or galloping (see Figure 2), the dewclawis in touch with the ground. If the dog then needs to turn, the dewclaw digs into the ground to support the lowerleg and prevent torque. If the dog doesn't have a dewclaw, the leg twists. A lifetime of that and the result can becarpal arthritis, or perhaps injuries to other joints, such as the elbow, shoulder and toes. Remember: the dog isdoing the activity regardless, and the pressures on the leg have to go somewhere.

Sorry not to have anything helpful to say, but I sure wish mine were terrified of the stuff. They regard blood and bone (any sort) as a big sign that says 'dig here'. One year I planted a couple hundred bulbs and the dogs came along and dug every single one of them up.

I've been watching a litter of five day old pups scoot around the whelping box. Their locomotion is surprisingly similar to the retrievers working on ice in the video. They use their dew claws like mad. I wonder if anyone has ever compared neonate locomotion with and without dewclaws. Might puppy mortality, particularly through being squished by mum, be higher when dew claws are removed? Btw, in my OP, I didn't say dewclaw removal was cruel or condemned anyone for doing it. I just said it made me feel terrible. I'm not against removing dew claws, but I don't think it should be done casually, or for cosmetic reasons. Mum not blinking an eye when it's done is no test. Mums can be amazingly unreactive to puppy distress, as in when they sit on pups and squash them to death, or stand by and watch microchips inserted. MonElite, retrieving on ice is central to the original purpose of the retriever. The Newfoundland dogs imported to the UK ...progenitors to Labbies, flatties, Goldies, Chessies, etc., excelled in work in frozen water, probably both working as assistance dogs to fishermen on the Grand Bands, and as hunting dogs when the fishing wasn't so good. The rural folk at high latitudes do a lot of hunting when the days are short and there's ice on the pond. Hence high value placed on dual coat with high water repellency, and hence the high popularity of Labs in Scandinavia, Russia, and Canada. And as DakotaJ noted, the trainer is being careful...it sounds like he's prepping the dogs so they WON'T get in trouble when working in the field under frozen conditions.

Have you never looked at a celeb picture and wondered what they looked like without makeup? I see nothing bizarre about wanting to see the real side of breeding . . . as opposed to the cleaned up side. Hope to follow up with the week six to eight mega-mess when they're eating solid food and mum is getting tired of cleaning up. I think people, other than breeders, need to understand what is involved in raising a litter of puppies. Pictures taken just after cleaning up don't do the job.

One of the blogs I follow posted a great video showing dogs using their dew claws for retrieves on ice. I've always hated to remove dew claws. It feels like cutting off the dog's thumb -- much worse than docking a tail or ears. Anyway . . . an interesting and well made video. See http://vimeo.com/39124130 Ice isn't such a big issue in Oz . . . but I still see dogs use their dew claws when chewing a bone or other object.

Yep its easy to think based on what we know and live with personally but now I know why you may not give a dog a water bowl over night and I live with mongrel brown snakes I understand why someone may go that way. Whats worse having a dog thats locked up for 6 to 8 hours without water or snakes competing for their water - especially in tight areas where they couldn't get out of their way - not an easy question. Personally I think a dog which is fed a raw food diet would not suffer at all if it had to wait overnight for a drink - evidenced by the ratbag who sleeps on my couch who isn't interested in having a drink while she is inside over night even with a water bowl available all the time. problem is if the law says water has to be available all the time - no one cares why- its a breach of the law - if you have 10 dogs its 10 cruelty charges and you are guilty - no way out of it. I'm curious. Do those drinking fountain things you can put on the end of a hose work? I'd think you could plumb them in so the spills go into some sort of a drain. Or will snakes still come for the smell of water, even if there's no bowl. It's a fair bit of work to remove water dishes every night.

You might also want to check with your local Council. They may not consider a vasectomy as desexing. If the purpose of desexing is to reduce the testosterone pool, the two are not equivalent.

such an article was posted in the Studies About Dogs in the General Forum. The link is http://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2012/03/120326112842.htm Large sample (400 dogs, 4 breeds) . .. PhD research done at a Norwegian university. Here's a snippit: After about eight weeks, the puppies began life with their new owner. The opportunity to exercise daily in parks up until the age of three months reduced the risk of HD, whereas the daily use of steps during the same period increased the risk. Overall, it would appear that daily exercise out in gently undulating terrain up until the age of three months gives a good prognosis when it comes to preventing HD. I would avoid stairs as much as possible. When you have to go up and down, have the pup on a leash and make sure he goes SLOW.

I can't remember seeing a photo of a puppy litter posted on DOL that shows the messy side of breeding: green placenta stains, puppy pooh, post-partum bleeding all over the whelping box, etc. Except, of course, where people are showing the horrors of puppy farming. This is a problem because: 1) it gives a rosy, and false, impression of the realities of breeding dogs 2) it leaves us open to attack by the AR types if our pups get observed any time other than just after we've cleaned up. People must realize that having a litter is a messy business, even for a responsible breeder. Attached is a picture of Bonza with her litter, four days after whelping . . . she has had enough of nursing for the moment . . . and it's about 6 hours after changing the bedding so there are a few stains around. I'd love to see some other reality shots of other people's litters.

Gives a whole new meaning to the phrase "butter someone up" Also "hot buttered buns"

Kids need sense, understanding, and respect, not fear. Fear doesn't produce intelligent responses.

I got a big scare with this present litter (9 pups) when mum, a first time mum, showed extreme distaste for cleaning their bottoms. I went through two rounds of stimulation with a warm cotton wad and cleaning up the mess. Time consuming and not pleasant work.ddfsfs Then I went web surfing and found a great tip on a South African bulldog breeders' site. Put margarine on the pup's anus and the mum will go for it. I tried this, using butter cause I don't stock margarine. After two rounds of supervised bottom cleaning and a bit of supervised observation, mum is now cleaning bottoms like a pro.

It sounds to me like the kid is being trained to fear. She probably gets positive reinforcement in the form of comforting when she screams and acts like she's been hurt. Sad, and counterproductive. She is old enough to understand a little about dogs' body language and know what is an attack and what is just enthusiasm...even if the enthusiasm spills her on her bum. When I was five, I got a good bite on the face when I did something stupid -- probably hair pulling -- with an Irish Setter. Not only did I not get sympathy from my parents, I got scolded, and given a couple stitches. Didn't lead to a phobia.

It also depends on the task. I've seen show handlers with an amazing ability to get most any dog to stack and go through its paces . . . but they'd have a hard time teaching 'gee' and 'haw' or correcting aggression.

Not sure but I think DURING whelping may be different than pre- or post-. Don't some sources (including Myra) say a hit of Ca stimulates contractions? I used the old vanilla ice cream between pups trick this last litter, and ten pups were out in less than 8 hours. No clue about whether the ice cream worked, and if it did, not clear whether it was the Ca or the sugar did the trick.

I doubt there is AN optimum. I think most of us have a few guidelines, but the best solution will vary depending on the bitch and her condition, the litter size, what you feed normally, and how things seem to be going with the litter in question. BARF feeders may do nothing other than change quantity. Most people feeding dry food shift to puppy food around the time of mating to up the calcium, protein, and fat amounts in a balanced way. Some add bones and/or dairy to further up Ca and protein. As with any diet question, it's essential that you adjust, depending on condition...and what seems to be working at the time. Eg, if poohs get too soft you may have to experiment a bit to find a balance that works better. It's worth reading the thread on calcium....whatever one does needs to preserve balance.

So sad. RIP, little one.