sandgrubber

Old familiar problem: Money talks. The dog community is divided and not good at standing behind a common cause, so they don't sponsor many projects. On the other hand, there are always people with strong opinions willing to shoot ideas down. I have no idea who is sponsoring this particular research. If pedigree breeders want input, I'd suggest helping to organise a group of subjects, and using the subjects as leverage to improve study design. I sleep beside the whelping box and handle neonates a lot in the first few weeks, especially if there's a little one or a few little ones. If someone wanted to put a camera into my whelping setup and record interactions, I would be in a position to ask for information on study design and make suggestions. To put it crudely, better to be on the inside pissing out than on the outside pissing in. Personally, I'd be glad to know whether or not early handling of pups had longer term effects. I have assumed handling is good, based on weak evidence. But I would prefer to see a study that followed pups to at least late adolescence . . . when behavioral problems tend begin showing up. I no longer live in Oz and was formerly in WA, so I was never in a position to influence this study. I have my PhD and spent a decade as a university lecturer who, among many other things, advised doctoral students . . . so have at least a modest claim to understanding the ropes.

Genes are in part luck . . . but dog breeders can/could select for them if the pattern were understood. I've looked and I find it kinda sad that no one seems even to have done research on basic things like searching for lineages with long or short lifespans within a breed. The Old Gray Muzzles guy seems to have made a name for himself on the question of longevity but his publications mostly have to do with cancer and his idea of dog seems to be Rottweiler. He drops hints about whole dog factors, like suggesting that dogs with a social life live longer, but doesn't seem to turn this into science.

Sounds interesting. Does he blog or post his tales/ideas anywhere?

The thread on help for PhD student got me thinking about canine research I'd like to see done. Top of my list would be a study looking at the life histories of dogs who remained in good health well into old age (eg, 15+ years). People, including myself, often tell stories about this or that dog who was fed rubbish food and given not much care, and still lived long healthy lives. I would love to see a study that systematically reviewed case studies of such dogs . . . looking at diet, exercise, breed, siblings fates (if possible), etc. I wonder if it's just random, or if there are common threads. Has anyone ever seen such a study?

Veronika If I were in a position to help you, I'd be glad to, but I'm half way around the world and my girls aren't breeding. I think you might get a better response out of the DOL crowd if you provided more detail on your research. What is your hypothesis? How are you testing it? What sort of sample do you hope to work with? Are you working alone, or is this part of a larger project? How are you going to analyze seven weeks of continuous data from multiple litters of pups? . . . also explain the isolation test . . . my guess is it's not stressful, but it sounds like it might be and the thought of it may scare people away. People would probably be more comfortable about this if they knew a little about you and your involvement with dogs and dog breeding. Having someone film for seven weeks in your home requires trust. It would make sense to post your appeal for volunteers in the Breeder's section if you can get permission to do so.

Hip scores confuse me. I've known dogs with bad scores live long healthy lives and dogs with good scores suffer arthritis. While I think it's worth scoring, I think the Labrador community is far too hung up on striving for the 0:0. In my experience, dogs with 7's and 8's are usually a-symptomatic throughout their lifetime and it's absurd to regard them as defective.. Because hip and elbow scores are the most conspicuous health data published by breeders, they seem to take on very great importance. This is especially problematic because it is well known that scores can vary considerably with positioning, and with who does the interpretation. Yes, there are Labs who need surgery, and because there are a lot of Labs around, most vets have seen a Lab or several with serious hip problems. Krontfeldt's PhD work showed that "HD did not have a large affect on the longevity of Labrador Retrievers or Irish Wolfhounds. Serious and moderate degrees of HD increased the risk of symptoms such as limping and hip pain and these symptoms occurred earliest in Newfoundlands. The Labrador Retriever was the breed in which symptoms appeared latest in life." See, eg., (http://www.nvh.no/en/Home/News/News-stories/A-number-of-environmental-factors-can-affect-the-incidence-of-hip-dysplasia-in-dogs/ Ie, except in extreme cases, radiographic HD causes old age arthritis . . . not nice . . . but not more serious in the swing of things than allergic conditions or IBD. Something a good number of us will suffer in later life.

Sadly I think the lawyer would end up costing more than the boarding and vet bill, and I just want to focus on the furbies now. The whole situation zapped too much energy. I just hope what happened to us makes kennels re-think their procedures and encourages owners to ask - or get in writing - what the procedures are for ensuring 100% separation. I know what you mean about lawyers and costs. Been there. But if you do the research and get the necessary information nicely assembled you may find someone who will write a demand letter for you for a reasonable fee. Alternatively, Google "how to write a demand letter". You'll find lots of DIY information, templates, etc.. A letter on a legal firm's letterhead looks more threatening, that's all. As 'court' in this case would be small claims court, you could try to sue them without a lawyer, though it would probably come down to your word against theirs . . . not a great basis for a legal case. I have no idea of how 'negligence' is defined in your state . . . someone else may be able to tell you. amend that: Here's a link that gives some info about QLD negligence law. http://www.legalaid.qld.gov.au/legalinformation/livinginthecommunity/Dutyofcare/Pages/Negligencedutyofcareandloss.aspx I suspect that a boarding contract will be invalid insofar as it tries to exempt the kennel from liability for negligence. If it were possible to evade negligence law in that way, every childcare center would do so . . . I don't think a legal system could allow this.

I love that video and have posted it myself on occasion. However, ice retrieves aren't a big issue in Australia. I am generally against removing front dewclaws, and repulsed by the idea that it should be done for cosmetic reasons (clean lines). But some people have had real problems with torn dewclaws, and I can respect the decision to have them removed.

I would be making preliminary inquiries to a lawyer. I'd say the chances are very high that they have insurance that will cover the incident and they don't want strikes against their insurance record. A well-written threatening letter from a lawyer might convince them that they have called it wrong. You probably don't want to go to court, as those suckers will bleed everyone dry. It's really obnoxious that they didn't give you the rest of the antibiotics after charging you the vet bill. I suspect a lawyer could use this in building a case. p.s. I formerly ran a boarding kennel in WA. Sh#t does happen. But you have a moral, if not a legal, obligation to pick up after the messes you create. In my kennel days there was a little kennel owners' association that hired a lawyer to write boarding contracts that basically said: "we take no responsibility . . . you pay for anything that goes wrong". We had good insurance, and were able to get claims covered on the couple occasions when untoward events happened.

Just curious. How is the economic health of greyhound racing in NSW (or Australia in general)? Here in Florida, the industry is barely viable. The legislature is debating whether or not to kick the legs out from under the industry by removing legislation that requires card gambling establishments to provide live greyhound racing. The industry is in decline and will probably fade away if not propped up by gambling houses and legislation. (the issue is called Decoupling by people who want to take away the legislative prop). See, eg. http://www.grey2kusa.org/action/states/fl.php

Unless you're going to do retrieving on ice, in which case it's important to preserve the front dewclaws, I'd say don't let this issue weigh heavily on your decision about a breeder. There are valid reasons on both sides. I'm in the camp that's against dew claw removal, but there are cases of torn dew claws, and if I had experienced one of those, I might very well sit on the other side of the fence. If I really liked a breeder and wanted a pup from one of their litters, it would hardly bother me that dewclaws had been removed.

But fortunes rest on horse racing outcomes . . . and that was a long time ago.

How absolutely horrible. Seems strange that only one dog was poisoned. If it was a crazy with something against Crufts, you'd think many dogs would have been done. I hate to think it's just nasty competition. Will people stoop that low?

I have three Labradors. My oldie has a lot of white, she's going on 11. My other two are 5 yr and 1.5 yr old. The old girl is a little shy. The other two are friendly to a fault. VIsitors always seem to want to pet the old girl . . . and escape from the other two. I'm convinced that real dog lovers have a special place in their hearts for the oldies . . . because they've had them too. As for people who aren't real dog lovers, who cares what they think. They haven't been there.

I claim no knowledge . . . but I once had a vet prescribe vallium for a dog who had had one grand mal seizure (never had a second) as a precaution for flying. Turns out that I opted not to use the vallium and she had no difficulty with the flight. But a friend who is something of a pill freak was super impressed by the amount of vallies the vet prescribed. Apparently it was far far more than the recreational dose for a pill popper.

Having watched retrievers with real (live or dead) birds vs. objects like rubber dummies, I can believe that live baiting could make a difference. I have fairly low drive Labradors. I've seen pups with seemingly no retrieve drive kick into very keen behavior when confronted with a dead bird. I had one old girl who I thought was a total retrieve-incompetent. One day when we were walking of the neighbors chooks crossed her path. She quickly and efficiently grasped it across the wings so it couldn't struggle and brought it straight to me. I'm not arguing in favor of live baiting. It's an ugly practice. Just saying that there may be reasons why trainers have persisted in using the technique.

Poor kid. Hope the surgery works and appropriate legal action is taken against the dog's owners. I wouldn't call that particularly bad journalism: just spurr of the moment collection of impressions from the people involved. Dog folks complain no matter what label they put on a dog. Someone the reporter talked to probably called it an Irish Staffy and the reporter used their words. I don't like the breathles, disjointed style, with short sentence followed by short sentence. But at least the article isn't burdened by a bunch of crap interpretation.

Being annoyed is bad for your health and not so comfortable. People do all sorts of things, and some of them are idiots, at least from my perspective. Learn to laugh at it. Accept the things you cannot change. Change the things you can. And have the wisdom to know the difference. And while I'm at it and half remembering the death of Leonard Nemoy, "live long an prosper".

Dogs do well on a wide variety of diets There is pitifully little research on the effects of diet, over many years, on dog health. In scientific terms:. THERE IS NO (proven) BEST FOOD. There are a lot of dogmatists preaching about this diet or that, and a lot of large corporations trying to earn maximum $$ by getting you to buy their fancy, but largely unproven, product. Keep your crap detectors turned on. I'd say go to the medium-to-high end kibble range. Experiment with different foods (knowing that it may take a month or more to see results). Work out what works for you and your pup. My dogs seem to do best with some fish meal based dry food; one of three seems to get itchy with chicken-based foods. They get fat on chicken frames. But it's doubtful whether my circumstances can be extended to your pup.

It is possible to do a good job of breeding for color, but it either takes decades of work looking for chance appearances of the desired color in quality dogs, or tens of thousands of dollars importing quality genetic material (AI is cheaper than importing studs, but takes longer). It's VERY easy to tell whether a breeder is doing a good job . . . or indiscriminately breeding for color. Just ask them about temperament and health of sire/grandsire and grand-dam, etc. If they can't answer, there's a problem. I like red fox Labs. When I lived in Oz and was breeding Labs, I briefly considered going for red and concluded it was beyond my means and lifespan to make it work. Could be done. Would take 20 or 30 years . . . and perhaps $50k.

The golden retriever and the flat coat retriever were once one and the same breed. The breed was split by color, and the two breeds each went their own ways. No such split occurred with Labradors, although (unfortunately in my book) some color variants (eg., hailstone) were weeded out and the occasional non-solid color (eg., semi-brindle) is a disqualification.

If this is true, why are there so many yellow Labs (with the shade of yellow seeming to get ever lighter)? A century ago almost all Labs were black. Black is dominant. Without breeding for color this would never have happened. Look at how strongly goldens are moving to cream. In WA I remember shows where dozens of goldies were entered . . . not a single one dark. Look at the rapid increase in number and quality of chocolate Labs in Australia. Ten years ago chocos were a rarity and seldom did well in the ring. After a lot of importing of top lines, this has changed greatly. Yes, many breeders breed for color to get a premium price, and some (many?) do it indiscriminately. But others bend over backwards, importing new lines and doing a lot of AI, to develop excellent lines carrying uncommon colors. That said, I wouldn't look for a red fox Lab in Oz. There are probably a few around, but you're narrowing your options so much it isn't worth it.

No offense. I'm an old-timer raised in a time when people spend a lot of time home and no one crated their dogs. But I find early crate training a scary indication that the role of 'the dog' has changed. Brave New World for puppies is here.

I presented the cart-dog analogy more as an allegory than a studied case. Take home messages: beware of unintended consequences. The road to hell is paved with good intentions. I've never been to a greyhound race and just get hand-me-down news about the greyhound racing industry here in Florida. It is controversial. The industry would have died long ago but for some peculiar legislation that allows gambling operations to exist if and only iff they maintain a racing track. This law is now being challenged. My region of Florida has no greyhound tracks, no breeders, and no relevance to the debate. I formerly lived in a kennel zone in WA. Because that particular area wasn't too far from the track and had 5 acre parcels (good for having a track and providing growing pups with enclosures that encouraged sprinting), it attracted the greyhound industry. Many of neighbors bred, trained and raced greyhounds. An abrupt ban on racing would have ramifications for these guys. Some of them were attached to their dogs and I'm sure they would have done their utmost to adopt out dogs if the industry was suddenly terminated . . . and they would no doubt hang on to a few favorite dogs. Others were more mercenary and would probably have euth'd their dogs if they saw no economic future. Personally, I don't see a bullet as much different from the green dream. Nor do these guys. I expect that some 'disposal of surplus dogs' would have been done by methods that are considered inhumane.

common or not, 14's a pretty big shock to a foster owner who was expecting six!