sandgrubber

What a cluge! Looks like no science and a whole lot of politics. LGD breedes in both 12 and 24 mo categories . . . Lab 18 mo, Chess and various larger setters, 12 mo; afghan 12 mo, saluki 24 mo.

Aux contraire, photos are essential for learning to recognize what snakes are dangerous . . . especially when the juveniles look so different from the adults. If snakes gross you out so much, avoid the thread

Maybe someone should create a list of the thumbs up charities and put it in the stickies.

Two of my dogs (Labs) were raised in WA and may have been influenced by my alarm at seeing snakes and cutting a wide swathe around them. The other (2 yr old) was born and raised in Florida. We have dozens of small lizards on my property, and lizard hunting is a favorite pass time. But I've seen them within a few meters of a snake half a dozen times. I can't believe they didn't see or smell it. But, no reaction. I think some of the snake reaction is breed related. Small terriers seem to have a death wish. One of my dog walking buddies in WA dragged her JRT's away from a dugite. When she was what she thought was a safe distance away she let the dogs off lead. One of them ran right back and attacked the snake. It did not survive.

Svartberg did a major study on temperament of dogs by breed, based on a huge sample of Swedish pedigree dogs ... all went through a standardized temperament test/ His data shows Lab and flattie as both being exceptionally human-social, playful, and fearless (the goldie was nowhere near them in these respects). Ie., bonkers. In breed groupings, flatties cluster with Labs, boxers, and AmStaffs. http://www.appliedanimalbehaviour.com/article/S0168-1591%2805%2900160-7/abstract I used to have a link to this article for free . . . it's probably around somewhere.

No longer breeding, but pig rails saved many a pup when I was doing so. My girls averaged 9 pups and weren't so great at keeping track of all of them. Yes, they need to be at the right height, and wide enough.

Pretty obviously, it's all over the place. Breeders are people, and vary immensely in their habits. Two thoughts 1. If they publish their phone number, they have invited legitimate calls 2. Always begin a phone call with something like: "I'm calling about puppies. Is this a good time to talk?" I find phones intrusive, in general. Being asked if it's a good time to talk quickly disarms my resentment of the phone . . . and allows me to say please call back later if it isn't a good time.

Have had that problem often. I just delete the body of the post and change the title to something like 'Oops! Duplicate Post".

You asked about trends . .. Show breeding has steered the golden away from darker shades, and toward a heavier coat and heavier build. It has also produced a temperament that is pretty different from the working / hunting golden. I'd recommend this article: http://www.appliedanimalbehaviour.com/article/S0168-1591%2805%2900160-7/abstract If you want a beautiful dog with a flowing rich cream-colored coat, go for a show dog . . . though you may find you need to select around some temperament faults. If you're looking for the traditional, somewhat rougher, reddish coat dog that is at home in the field, look for someone who breeds working goldies. Scottie Westfall of the Retrieverman Blog has written some good posts on working goldens. Here's a couple posts: http://retrieverman.net/2009/01/28/a-good-page-on-the-working-golden-retriever-in-britain/ http://retrieverman.net/2010/01/31/so-you-want-a-golden-retriever/ Sadly, Scottie has gotten so fed up with the social (and antisocial) aspects of the dogworld that he recently stopped writing about retrievers.

There is a HUGE difference between the F1 hybrid cross and a breed. Most of the 'oodles and doodles and puggles and chiweenies and all that stuff WILL NOT BREED TRUE. The F1 generation is relatively predictable. Future generations are not. You have to do a lot of selection to end out with consistent traits. And if you don't start out with a large stable of dogs to begin with you're likely to end out with a lot of inbreeding before you get to a consistent breed. I would love to see some breeds modified by well thought out crossing. But willy-nilly cross bteeding and selling for high prices (ie., most designer dogs) is profiteering first, dog breeding second.

In my experience (I lived outside Leipzig with a dog for a couple year) Germany is extremely dog friendly . . . not so child friendly. Many Germans identify themselves as 'tierleib' -- animal lovers. Willem's right. This article is 16 years old. BSL is still in force. The Germans have tended to avoid the difficulty of identifying pit bulls by banning them all: SBT, AmStaff, APBT and BT. There are undercurrents in German culture that wouldn't be a good mix with fighting breeds. Maybe that's why the legislation is accepted, or maybe it's some sort of determination not to import problems. Don't expect to see bans on the German breeds. Rottis, GSD's etc. are part of the social fabric.

My vet recommends douching the ear with a mixture of one part water, one part vinegar, and one point rubbing alcohol. Take a squeeze bottle like those sold for mustard and ketsup and really flood the ear. Message the ear. Let the dog shake it out. Then gently swab the outer ear gunk with a cotton wad. Yeast does not tolerate low pH, hence the vinegar. Rubbing alcohol has a drying effect. Water keeps it from being too strong and burning. Note, similar mixtures have long been used for kids with 'swimmer's ear'. If the infection is more complicated, your vet can probably give you an antibiotic ointment to apply after cleaning. Vinegar won't kill bacteria, only yeast. So if bacterial infection has followed yeast, you may need antibiotics.

Kudos to the Huff. Good article. Sad case . . . but good to point out that BSL is on the wane in the US for good reason.

Tired of it or not, emphasis on desexing and subsidized desexing works. In most of the US (apart from the South) it is getting hard to find dogs for adoption, that is unless you want a bull breed cross. Strays are being imported from Mexico and the US South to fill the need for adoptable shelter dogs. Private 'shelters' cherry pick dogs that are turned in for adoption, and their rates of rehoming are very high -- sometimes their prices are pretty high as well. In large part this is due to heavy emphasis on desexing and widespread availability and advertisement of free or heavily subsidized spay/neuter clinics. Our local clinic charges $US60 for a dog or bitch, regardless of your income. For low income people, it's free. They also have free clinics to spay and neuter feral cats.

I LOVE the diversity in the Labrador breed. The notion of splitting, IMO, is horrid and absolutely the wrong direction to go. When you have closed the stud books, you need to keep the breeding pool as large as possible. Splitting backs you into a corner. From the time of the breed's origin, there has been a strong tradition of aiming for dual purpose dogs, meaning field/sport and show. A century ago, Countess Lorna Howe promoted the dual purpose Labrador . . . and many many breeders still aim for Labs that are capable of hunting or other useful activity, but still do well in conformation shows. Many winning show dogs have been, and still are, worked as gun dogs. Some of the leading breeders in Australia and New Zealand fall in line with this tradition. The fact that some people are only interested in show or sport . . . or guide dogs or sniffer dogs . .. doesn't bother me at all. If you want a dog that excels in the hunt and has very high drive . . . there are breeders who can supply them. And if a breeder who has mostly done show/pet dogs decides they want to up the drive in their dogs, eg., to have a go at agility, there are bloodlines they can look to. Guide Dogs does sometimes use show lines rather than their own dogs. Blackboy Kennels in WA has a long association with Guide Dogs, and I know some Lab breeders in the Eastern States have also provided both puppies and stud services.

IMO people are far too judgmental. If ethical breeders don't breed to meet demand, someone else will. In the USA we're down to <7% of all puppies born being registered by the AKC. It's estimated that 300,000 puppies and dogs are imported each year to meet demand. Most imports are commercially imported, and are not pedigree dogs. Shelters have a surplus of breeds/types that people don't want. But there are not enough dogs to meet demand for the sort of dogs people do want.

While breeders don't directly breed to meet demand, it's hard to ignore it completely. When the price per puppy rises above $1500 and waiting lists are long and include a good many well-qualified buyers, it's tempting to have another litter. If you had trouble placing the last litter with decent homes, it's much more difficult to justify another litter.

It's hopeless at my house. The dogs have gotten me desensitized. The bad: "love me, love my dog" becomes a somewhat higher hurdle.

Anyone here on DOL calling for the banning of Labradors? ricey Some Labradors do bite. Most Labrador puppies bite a lot! But the severity of Lab bites is, on average, less than that of many other breeds. Look at the dog fatality statistics or hospital admission statistics, rotten as their quality is: you will see that Labs are not heavily represented, despite being the most common dog breed in the US. Pit bull numbers aren't that high in Colorado in part due to BSL. If they weren't banned in Denver, they might well have come in first. And if you look at the percent of the total dog breed population that has inflicted serious injury, who knows what breed will come out as #1. Could be some relatively rare guardian breed. I am not for banning pitties. They are the most common dog breed where I now live. I don't see pits as any more dangerous than Staffies. Biggest problem is the huge number of pits that end up in shelters and get put to sleep. The hardest of the hard questions is how do you make everyone (98% isn't good enough) be responsible in caring for their dogs. The 'Calgary Model' is hard to sustain, much less export.

hmm tried to fix link but it's stubborn.

I presume you don't want ticks from outside Australia . . . and that deterioration in shipping may impede research if the transport time is several days?

Breed is relevant, though dogs are not always true to breed stereotype. I've had a lot of Labs. They run free inside and out. The closest thing to a fight I've seen is play fighting. With my present three, the puppy (2 yrs) often gets rolled, with the older dogs standing over her. But everyone wags and no one gets hurt. And they get up and do it all over again. I once read a sled-dog book where the author said his dogs enjoyed fighting. Hence he had to keep them staked. That left me wondering if play fighting was a behavioral relic. Also left me wondering whether some dog fights were a dog's version of recreation. Chase, dig, fight . . . all things dogs 'like' to do.

Everyone will tell you to select for health . . . I take that for granted, but it's better to have a dog that you truly love and gets arthritis at 8 yrs than a dog you wish was dead and lives to 16 years . . . so do pay attention to temperament. Furthermore, don't be too wow'ed by health measures. A hip score of 5:7 on one or both of the parents looks kind of bad, but is rarely going to lead to problems, and may just be a stupid manifestation of how the dog was positioned when X-rays were done. Don't sacrifice other desired traits to get the 0:0 hips, 0:0 elbows. I would worry if you see 12:15 hips or 2:2 or 3:1 elbows . . . but no one advertizes those. Also, if you're after a pet, it doesn't matter at all if the sire or dam is a carrier (or even affected) for PRA or EIC .. . so long as the other parent is clear there is no way your pup will be affected. As for EIC, even if your pup IS affected. there's a good chance that you will never notice it. Many excellent dogs proved to be EIC affected when they first worked out the genetic test . . . One more thing . . . it's good to work with a breeder who has some skill in temperament testing. Some litters have a mix of higher drive and lower drive pups. If the breeder is capable of judging which is which and wants to select the pup for you (probably best done at around 8 wks) that's a positive. Best to ask how they do the selection. We select the best pup for you' can be a shady dodge to make sure all the pups get homed at asking price, regardless of temperament problems. Bottom line here is (1) define what your are looking: both temperament and conformation (2) question the breeder to find out how their bloodlines match up to what you want.

GIven that I don't have a gun, and don't hunt, the official 'gundog' and 'retriever' categories don't matter much at all. Or if you wish to push it back further, the proto-Labradors, the St John's dogs, were bred for multipurpose work, but especially catching fish that had escaped from a barbless hook line in very cold ocean waters. This matters to perhaps 0.001% of Labrador owners. I have owned Labs who didn't retrieve and didn't much like water . . . something of a surprise but not a major concern. As I understand the breed's evolution, easy rapport with people (gentleman's companion to the landed gentry of late 19th century/early20th century UK), good with other dogs, and capable of learning are extremely important . . . and essential in permitting the Lab to become the preferred guide dog/assistance dog, and a valuable breed for police work where attack/threat attributes are not desired...not to mention the most popular breed in the English speaking world (and quite popular elsewhere).

No Labrador should have blue eyes - not even the chocolates. I think a communication problem here. Lab puppies often have beautiful blue-almost-purple eyes . . . they turn brown later. ASK THE BREEDER ABOUT TEMPERAMENT. Both sire and dam. All Lab breeders say their dogs have 'great temperament' . . . so ask them what is great about their dogs' temperament -- without telling them what sort of temperament you are looking for (lots of people will tell you what you want to hear, maybe not deliberately, so don't let them know what you want to hear). When they tell you their dogs are smart, ask them for examples. Labs range from extremely mellow to somewhat maniacal. In part this is in the upbringing, but some of it seems to be genetic. Some breeders select for the more active dogs, other like the couch potatoes. I have met a few Labs who were highly protective and would bite intruders . . . many are friendly to a fault if you don't like forever eager greetings. I personally love the breed because of the intuitive grasp of human emotions and needs . . . as Stressmagnet describes. This trait is much stronger in some lines than others. If this is what you're looking for, ask what the dogs have picked up without being trained. You might also want to ask about time to maturity. I love Lab pups, but a lot of people have trouble dealing with their antics and mouthyness. It's good to know whether they're going to start to settle at 18 months, or whether it's likely to be 3 years. I find this varies quite a bit in different lines.