sandgrubber

They don't have to supply "proof". Just letters from other groups who happen to agree with it/him (ie RSPCA/Hugh Wirth). Natural Justice and Procedural Fairness doesn't seem to have to apply when it comes to regulating/legislating. I agree with you regarding the more -vs - lesser support that the RSPCA gets from the joe public. But that shouldn't stop people from voicing their objections (not that you said it should). And this can be done in the form of : telling people of these factual stories (eg. this one; Ruth Downey; etc. etc.); giving donations to some other charity; letters (they accumulate, over time); engaging in the Christmas Card Challenge suggested by the MDBA with the notation "Concerned about the RSPCA powers" on them; voting with your feet; on the back of your voting slips, writing something similar (ie "Concerned about the RSPCA powers"). Keep letting them know you're not happy. After all, when you're in trouble, do you only cry out for help once and quit when no one responds? In WA I see the RSPCA as doing more good than harm. May be different in other states. I could well be wrong cause I don't see everything. In general, I think it's more powerful to take responsibility than to point fingers. All charities have internal politics and many are succeptible to being directed by people with extreme views. Where I grew up (California) there were problems with extreme Christians taking over the PTA (Parents and Teacher's Association) and pushing school prayer, preventing sex education, etc. I don't blame the Christians . . . I blame the non-extreme members for letting extrimists take over. The RSPCA has built up a well respected brand name. I think it's more effective to work to make the RSPCA respond to genuine cruelty than to bad mouth the organisation.

I agree completely. I'm afraid it's easier to just curse the RSPCA. In WA we don't find the RSPCA much of a problem (or are there people they've bothered who aren't speaking up). I'd guess that's historical accident, not a result of good organisation in the K9 community. I would say it's the VIC and maybe QLD/NSW people who need to mount a a challenge. Non-governmental organisations with strong opinions have a long history of taking control of relevant policing. Note certain Christian groups getting Harry Potter banned in school libraries and inserting their people as 'abortion councelors' . . . or homophobes in standard police units. It takes a lot of work and effective organisation to prevent this sort of thing.

I think the problem in the following statement is in the \'give us\' Give us a system where we FEEL we have the ability to be heard and defend ourselves and our animals and where we dont FEEL threatened and helpless against goliath. . . . . Policing seems to be the most difficult area of governance. If you have a stomach for cursing, I'd recommend viewing The Wire (rent the DVD's . . .HBO stuff), a cop show like no other, which deals with the problem of policing in terms of individuals, bureaucracy, education, and the full gamit of complexity. I see that you (Steve, MDBA, and friends) are working hard and effectively. But no one is going to give provide the dog world with a utopian system for encouraging good practice and cutting back on outright cruelty. It's hard, endless, work to improve the bloody system that has come down to us. Companion animal legislation is every bit as hard as dealing with race, sexual orientation, or drugs . . . and governance systems may be equally as f@$#'ed up. But our budgets are in the hundreds of millions instead of the multi-to-hundreds of billions scale. So it's hard to get attention. Personally, I don\'t think the RSPCA are the bad guys. Not sure 'bad guys' is the problem. It's the lack of a sensible framework for management of a complex problem.

If it's not teething or attention seeking / bored behaviour, you may have to do fencing, or replace the gravel with something less attractive to chew (eg concrete). In my experience, rock eating is hard to train out, and may lead to high vet bills.

Police have these powers, but that doesn't guarantee that they are willing to exercise the powers they have. I think it's in the 'too hard' basket for a lot of police, and they'd much rather shunt responsibility off to the RSPCA or . . . in our area . . . the Rangers. Domestic disputes and child welfare give many police enough headaches without taking on animal welfare.

I've been reading -- and doing the devil's advocate thing -- on some dominantly anti-RSPCA threads in the last weeks. It strikes me that breeders relate to the RSPCA like hippies did to cops in my youth. Back then, I was on the hippy side. We all said awful things about cops (ie, 'pigs') and tended to rude, crude anarchist condenation. Looking back over a few decades, I'd say there were some bad cops and some good cops . . . and some hippies who were doing bad things and deserved the hand of the law. I have a lot of problems with a lot of laws, but I've seen too much to think that anarchy would be a better solution. Good enforcement isn't easy to set up and maintain. The RSPCA has been put in the position (or taken on the role) of dog cops. Some segments of the RSPCA in some regions will take on the role vigorously and some think ill of pedigree dog breeders. Sometimes there will be harsh and unjust application of the law . . . in effect police brutality. Sometimes there will be lax enforcement, or outright corruption. But in my experience, some breeders are pretty cruel, and I think there need to be someone attempting to enforce minimum standards on the breeder community. No argument here, the same standards need to be applied to X-breeds and puppy mills as to registered breeders. I don't think the situation would be much different if it were left to Rangers or normal police agencies to implement animal cruelty laws. There has to be someone out there doing enforcement. The outcome will be a mixed bag.

Watch like a hawk. A friend of mine ended out with a mysterious and difficult to diagnose obstruction that nearly killed the dog (Labrador); it didn't show up on X-rays, and eventually went away without treatment (but a huge vet bill) . . . they think it was from eating a meat tray thingy.

I had a Lab end up looking like a Shar-pei after a bee sting. Antihistimines (human kind) work. But better to google 'antihistimine dog' or some such to get suggestions about dosage . . . or speak with a vet.

I bought a great scooter for $20 at swap meet. What I'd look for . . . the kind with a platform nearly as big as a skateboard, tires about the size of those on a kiddy bicycle, and BRAKES. Handlebars also need to be where you can reach them . . . but the big kind with brakes almost always have higher handlebars.

I have six Labs, including two pups. Haven't trained any of them to use the doggy door. They just figure it out. It's just a heavy blanket flap door, but high enough to challenge a young pup. They rise to the challenge and clamber over, following the bigger dogs. What takes a little more doing is teaching them to go through the door, as opposed to, say, the closet in the back bedroom, when they need to wee.

Patience. If she's 8 wks she's only been away from the litter for a couple days. Maybe 5:30 is when the puppys all woke up and got fed at the breeder's place. Very likely she is unused to being alone, and waking up and finding herself alone is upsetting.

Healthy puppy behaviour, I'd say. If you can't build an adequate fence, don't expect to have a pup and save your garden. You should be able to train 'out of the garden' or 'leave it' or some such when the pup is older, but pups are much harder to train, and harsh training methods tend to leave mental scars when applied to pups. [You could probably find a trainer who can teach your pup without damage, but expect many hours training, spread out over a few months . . . can be done, but requires skill and patience]. Appreciate the crazy puppy stage when you've got it. Mature dogs are both less trouble and less fun/crazy/cute.

I was badly bitten by an Irish Setter (required several stitches) . .. in the face . . . when I was four. No doubt I did something that offended a high strung animal, like pulling hair or whatever. I was accompanying my father, a doctor, on a housecall. Adults were present in the room, but paying no attention. No one did anything radical, other than patch up my face. So far as I know, the dog continued life as usual. It did me no long term damage. Dogs that act in a predatory manner toward children are very dangerous and, fortunately, very rare. Those who protect themselves against a child's unwanted attention . . . simply badly handled. If no big fuss is made, the child will handle without physical or mental scars. Hopefully, the adults will come through it a bit wiser. In my book, this is a SH*T Happens case. I love seeing dogs in shops . .. yes, accidents will happen. But I don't think it's reason to ban dogs in shops, or declare the dog in question DANGEROUS.

The cause of seizures can be difficult to diagnose, and many people go into denial re epilepsy, which is probably the most common cause. Also, there is great misunderstanding about manifestations of epilepsy. Not all epileptic seizures develop into the full terrifying grand mal type. The language for partial or atypical seizures is all over the place . .. . but at least in my breed (Labradors), partial/atypical light seizures are more common than the classic heavy duty kind. What were the seizures like? If Osca is epileptic, no amount of changing flea treatments will make the condition go away. I wouldn't go for expensive diagnoses . . . which are often inconclusive for epilepsy . . . and I would let things go for a few months on a treatment and then change to a chemically unrelated treatment before pointing the finger at the flea treatment.

To my knowledge, there is no test for epilepsy in ANY breed, least of all Labradors. The above quote is contradictory. The above isn't contradictory, it's nonsense and clearly a typo. 'There is are test'. ??? There is work in progress on K9 epilepsy. Here's a less technical article . . . that has been posted before on DOL http://www.bsdaofgb.co.uk/idiopathic_epilepsy.htm a paragraph from the above Towards a DNA test for carriers of epilepsy in the Tervueren Progress from now on should be quite rapid. Anita Oberbauer at Davis, University of California has now been awarded a new grant from the Canine Health Foundation to develop genetic markers for idiopathic epilepsy in the Tervueren. What does this actually mean? Although we know this major gene now exists, we don't know what it is, neither do we know where it is on one of those 38 different autosomes. Using the newly developed genetic map of the dog, Anita Oberbauer hopes to be able to localise the gene to one small region of one of those chromosomes. The genetic map of the dog is made up of a series of special DNA markers, each marker uniquely identifying just one region of one of the chromosomes. The map contains 100s of different markers ensuring that each chromosome is evenly decorated with DNA markers. What Oberbauer is trying to find out is which of these markers is always co-inherited with the mutant version of the gene. DNA regions that are always co-inherited are physically close to one another on a chromosome. Markers that are co-inherited with the mutant version of the gene are said to be linked to the gene. The identification of markers linked to the mutant gene will immediately locate the mutant gene to one small region of one of those 38 chromosomes

I breed purebreed Labs but also run a boarding kennel, so observe crossbreeds. I find some crosses are more successful than others (in terms of how well the pups and dogs work in to living with a family). I look after several ShihTzu X Maltese in boarding kennels. I don't care what label is put on them. In general, they seem to be a good cross (maybe not as good as Labrador X Kelpie, which doesn't even merit a DD nickname). I also find I get a lot of successful 'spoodles'. SBT crosses tend to be more problematic as adults, as do sibe, GSD, Rotti X dogs. Note, the dog rescues I know are flooded with little fluffie crosses, so I may be observing only the successful dogs . . . and cute little fluffies may, in general, be problems waiting to happen.

To my understanding, there are is test for epilepsy. It is idiopathic. Diagnosis involves ruling out other possible causes. Prognosis is usually inconclusive unless seizures re-occur in a pattern that fits the disease description. The symptoms you describe don't fit the excited state associated with EIC . . . could also be atypical epilepsy. Hopefully the U. Minn mob will succeed in finding the gene for this and we will end up being able to test.

Brush her daily, slowly increasing the time. Get her used to being calm while being groomed. I doubt that taking her to obedience training will help with staying calm whilst being groomed. Agreed. I have six Labs, ranging from 4 months to 9 years. All love being brushed. But it's part of daily routines and general pattern of hands on living with a dog. We spend ~15 minutes a day on the bed, first thing in the morning, doing touchy things. They compete for what they see as affection. Grooming needs to be worked into a pattern of living with a dog . . . not treated as 'obedience'. We also do daily walkies . . . and they have a couple acres to run on so they can work off steam. I think a lot of naughty Labbies are pressure cookers who have no way to vent excess energy.

Not speaking for Sylvia, but she typed 60% carrier, which should mathematically translate to 8% affected, but the latest figures showa higher total in Australia. Sylvia's numbers: (700 affected +2595 carriers) /6959 total =47% affected or carriers . . . but 40% or 60%, the point is the gene is widespread and the decision to breed it out will mean dropping a lot of dogs from the gene pool.

Just curious, have you ever seen a dog with EIC? I haven't. With -- based on the statistics Sylvia posted -- 50% of dogs being carriers or affected, you may have to do some serious culling to end out with entirely clear stock. Personally, I think most of us have other faults to work on that are higher on list of priorities than a condition most of us have never seen manifested -- even if our dogs are affected. I hope the day comes when we can submit one swab and get the whole battery of genetic tests . . . hopefully to include HD/OCD factors, epilepsy factors, overshot jaw, colours, and mismark genes along with PRA. Until there's a good, reasonably priced, integrated genetic testing program, I don't want to get sucked into doing every new test that comes along.

Great to have some statistics, Sylvia. I'm amazed that prevalence is so high; and on that basis, it looks like testing is a good idea. I'm uncertain, re seriousness. It's a strange condition. My stock are calm-tempered and rarely get worked up into an intensely excited state. Thus, even if they were affected, I doubt I would have seen manifestations of the condition. I haven't sold a single pup into a family that does hunting: there are few places where you can hunt waterfowl or game birds in WA. Nor have I ever had a report of one of my pups collapsing. I think there was suspicion that one of my girl's sire was affected, but this was never confirmed and I've heard nothing suggesting that any of my pups has ever collapsed. As more and more genetic conditions are identified and more tests become available, we're going to have to make more decisions about what to require, and what to do voluntarily. For the time being, I think I'll give EIC a miss . . . On the other hand, given the relatively high frequency of epilepsy identified in Danish Labradors (3.1%, 70% of which were partial seizures: see http://cat.inist.fr/?aModele=afficheN&cpsidt=13669562 or do Google on epilepsy Danish Labrador) I would say epilepsy is a greater concern . . . and hope genetic tests become available for it in the near future.

I'm no expert, but as I understand it, the key with pancreatitis is low fat. Cooked grain -- I think oatmeal or rice are preferable, combined with a low fat meat -- roo is great -- and some veggies, plus supplements such as flax seed, fish oil, and kelp, to make sure the trace elements and omega 3/6 etc are covered -- would do. I think this has been discussed before on this forum. You might want to do a search for +diet +pancreatitis.

Does anyone have any idea how many dogs have been found to be carriers? In the US, or in Australia? I'm happy to do tests for genetic diseases that are a real possibility, but don't want to end up in a regime where breeders are required to test for everything they've been able to develop a test for, even if there's been no evidence of the diseases being present. (Eg, I've been told there's never been a reported case of narcolepsy in Australian Labs and many vets are recommending against testing. Would be interested to know if that's true).

If I have long term bed destroyers in kennels they get a pallet with carpet nailed over the surface. Hard to destroy. Cheap to replace.

Deed not breed. Lab pups . . . and pups of most breeds . . . tend to be submissive and generally get along with older dogs. . . but there are exceptions. Cattle dogs vary greatly in how they get along with puppies and other dogs. If the vaccinations are ok, I'd say it comes down to knowing the individual behaviour of both dogs . . . and having time to supervise during the first few days (and ability to separate the dogs if problems show up).