sandgrubber

Iodine is an element on the periodic table and even a talented alchemist with a blowtorch can't change it into something else . . . whatever the expiry date on the package. Betadine, so far as I know, is a trade name for iodene solution. I have some left over from 15 yrs ago when I had a hysterectomy and regard it as still fine . . . if I want to deal with the colour. I would trust it 100 yrs from now, if I happened to be alive (fat chance). If you want to kill all bugs with something that tastes bad but doesn't stain, I'd recommend chlorohexadine . . . likewise chemically inert and toxic to bacteria and fungi. My bottle of the stuff came from a dentist who recommended it for gargle but it tastes like chemical waste and I couldn't use it. Great for cleaning thermometers and wiping off wounds. Hot spot treatment is helped by drying . . . so adding something highly volitile, like rubbing alcohol, or something drying like peroxide or rubbing alcohol or tea tree oil may be a good idea. With hotspots, I find that the most important thing is cutting back the hair . . . lots of things work well for wiping out the infection if it's exposed to airflow.

I would only be okay with it if the animals could live in a situation where they could exhibit normal rabbit behaviours, ie eating grass, have some room to run around in and dig in dirt. I would not agree at all if babies were routinely killed just to keep mum in lactation. Having said that it very well could be abused as other forms have been as you mentioned. IF they were humanly treated I have no problems, but I guess it most likely wouldn't happen. Much as some people love to bag the RSPCA, I think their involvement here is good. May well be a great drug production outcome. Who cares if the final product costs 2% more because they give the bunnies a big enclosure and allow them to act like rabbits rather than caged factory animals? Someone needs to keep watch on these things. I don't have the time. Glad someone is doing so. Animal cruelty and animal welfare are charged subjects in a time when values are changing. Anyone taking it on is going to get jumped for two or more directions.

ditto this, except in my experience it's three to four times more expensive to do surgical, harder on the bitch, and a lot more hastle . . . more prog testing required . . . the timing of insertion is highly critical so you end out having to hover for days waiting for just the right time. On the other hand, if you get access to some highly desirable frozen semen, it's wonderful to have it in storage as backup for situations where, say, the planned chilled semen donor gets ill or the parcel gets lost in transit. Because the ideal day for chilled vaginal insertion is a couple days before that of surgical insemenation, having something in the freezer may save you having to skip a season when the chilled stuff doesn't come on time.

Genetic diversity is generally good, but biogeography and evolution tell us it isn't the only factor in health. Think about the goat populations on various smallish tropical islands . . . all descended from a pregnant nanny left behind a century ago. Many such populations are full of rugged, very healthy individuals. Or take most of the species 'native' to Hawaii or the Galapagos. Having a narrow gene pool can be ok if the unhealthy are consistently culled (or desexed) over many generations. Island populations with narrow gene pools do tend to get wiped out when islands get settled by people and the species they bring with them, but that's because they often evolve under weak competition, often without top predators, and they get undone by introduced species or introduced diseases.

I've been following the "Litters due in" lists and seeing, sadly, that I'm not the only one who looses pups in whelping. A bitch belonging to a friend of mine recently had a litter of 8. They were uneven in size. About halfway, a pup got stuck. She got the stuck pup out, but lost it, and also lost and two after it. The last pup also got stuck and she had to do an emergency Ceasar for one dead pup. My Jarrah has twice had 10 and lost 3 of them, not born defective, rather suffocating in delivery. I've heard so many sad stories that I chickened out this time and put her in for a Ceasar. She now has 10 very healthy fat pups. There's a sort of stigma round doing Ceasars. Just wondering if others think it's worth rethinking this attitude, especially for girls who can free whelp, but have a history of loosing pups. . . .especially for large litters . . . especially if you have a vet that is very good at doing Ceasars.

Cripes!!! Hot air!!! Pack behaviour on the part of those being negative to this post.. Attack a favourable book review because of the author's known affiliations I know McGreev ... [whatever his name is] has stepped on some toes. But for my money, he's working, to the best of his ability, to improve dog welfare. Ok. We don't agree 100% and there are some serious issues. Science should be the arbitrator on the issues -- except where they are matters of values (science cannot make value statements) and where disagreement is about values it needs to be clear that the issue is values and the way of reconciling values (my personal prefersence is for tolerance and acceptance of diversity) needs to be establshed. Post courtesy of 2+ std drinks Houndsttooth Gin and tonic. No endorsement. Booze is booze. Hard to deal with this crap if you aren't a bit tipsy. Hope this isn't incoherent. I'm dealing with self medicated physical pain and some other issues

ever occur to you thats exactly what they do to anyone that they please? ie the lady with the debarked dogs, (remember she is not being charged with debarking them, for "exhibiting them" may as well bring in you cant take a desexed dog to a public place either?) now there would be a real money maker. the rescue couple? the list is pretty long an the kicked have no place to go to for intercession on their behalf save the courts and that takes money, major money. and yep its no accident the legal profession is voted on a par with used car salesmen. they too can be totally incompetant and still charge like wounded bulls. never forget after a divorce case the law society was contacted to dispute a bill in excess of 2,000 for items listed as, "attendance on the phone," by the solicitor concerned to be told that their job was to ascertain if the charges were excessive, not to ascertain if they had been actually services rendered. the complainant had never spoken to the person on a phone, ever, yet was charged for a service never rendered? I'd put the legal profession below car salesmen. I've know a few decent car salesmen and they don't earn $300+/hr. As I understand it here, the complaint is that the RSPCA bungled the prosecution. They have had more experience with the legal system than I, and I'd hope they would have found the 'right' legal representation who would be able to secure a prosecution. But if they haven't, I would await full details before pointing the finger. Who knows. They may not be able to point out how badly some brief has screwed them out of fear that they will be sued for deformation.

JRT's, like a lot of terriers, were bred to attack vermin. Some of them are brave little idiots in the attack department, sometimes with bad results. I will never forget talking with someone who ended out with a JRT through changing partners, and ending out flabbergasted when the little, presumed harmless, dog killed a sheep. In my experience in boarding kennels, JRT temperament is highly variable. Some are pretty placid. Some think they are BIG dogs and will take on a Rotti that weighs 10 times as much as them . . . and are happy as Larry being part of a pack of 30+ kg dogs with unaggressive temperaments. They do tend to be VERY opinionated dogs . . . whatever temperament they have, they seem to have it in a big way.

Kicking the RSPCA seems to be a favourite sport on DOL. Having, myself, lost a legal battle through the efforts of a lawyer who seemed more interested in playing footsie with his legal aid than in defending my case (the bastard hadn't even read most of the documentation I sent him and hadn't even worked out a time line on the events fo the case when the preliminary hearing took place) I would be a little slower to condemn. Unfortunately, justice isn't straightforward in Australia. Until I hear the details, I'd as soon blame the bloody lawyers as the RSPCA. Not that the RSPCA is perfect or beyond blame. Just that habitually blaming them without knowing the details is a lazy and unjust way of passing judgement.

I think it's more complicated than indicated, as the sensitivity of the reading also needs to be taken into account. I use Applecross Vets, who use St. John of God Laboratory. St John oG has changed their equipment and we're not being told that that much higher prog test numbers are required before we go ahead with mating/insemenation/surgical implantation. I've ended up with 10 pups on a surgical implantation by accepting the advice of the Vet clinic . . . so I am willing to believe what they tell us and not get upset by the very high numbers they're recommending to do the mating/procedure.

If it is a mild case of KC, the vet won't help . . . it will pass on its own with no real probs. KC is a virus, and they don't respond to antibiotics. Most clear without treatment. A severe case may incur a secondary bacterial infection. In which case the vet can supply you with antibiotics that will kill off the secondary infection. If it were my dog, I'd give something to soothe the cough, eg, honey-water or normal Benedryl and only go the vet if it gets serious.

I wouldn't recommend necks/wings for a Labrador as they're small enough for her to swallow whole. I've got a Goldie that did this (only once ), so now I give him frames which he can't eat in one gulp. i've raised a few dozen labs on 60%+ chicken frames with no ill effect, and generally good health results. They're a great food, and generally cheap . . . much better that they go to a dog than end up as something needing 'sanitary disposal'.

Quote from Steve . . . my system isn't allowing a direct reply...: Dont most purebred breeders select for temperament as part of what they do? Some, maybe most, but not all. I know of a show stopper whose unofficial call name is "Asshole" and he seems to pass the temperament on to his pups . . . .but he still gets used at stud.

With Labs, I find that most of my callers are great . . . many have had the breed for decades or even generations, expect to wait, understand the each litter may not have the sex/colour mix that is best for them, realise that pups require time and some discipline and may be destructive, etc. Lots of calls for the second dog to keep the first company. I would have stopped breeding long ago if I didn't find it rewarding to provide family members to people I know will give care and love.

Should note that temperament is a mix of heredity and environment. To wit, Belyav's extraordinary experiments with domestication of foxes, where friendliness to humans and playfulness were found to be highly heritable traits. As breeders, we should be selecting for temperament as well as worrying about puppy socialisation, lest our breeds shift from tame to a somewhat more feral state. See: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tame_Silver_Fox

Radical animal libbers think ALL domestication is exploitation. But going toward center from the extreme, killing domestic animals to eat them . . . or feed them to your dog . . . is a form of exploitation no? Milking a rabbit doesn't kill the animal, and if things are set up well, will result in the animal living a long, healthy life . . . certainly a better life than the average battery hen.

In WA you are not allowed to build a kennel within 10 m of a residence, and if you have more than two dogs . . . or in some shires four . . . they expect a kennel and want you to be in a kennel zone (read dog ghetto). Makes it hard for breeders who want to have three or four or five dogs and do puppy raising in the house. Stupid stupid rules!!!!! The pedigree community hasn't enough clout, or enough focus to get the laws changed . .. maybe it's worth turning to the animal welfare community to find political support???? :D

If someone is a full time stay-at-home breeder, 26 pups if managable, especially if the bitches are experienced and the litters large. Lots of pooh to pick up, though, if they all hit 6 to 8 weeks at once, and lots of puppy buyers to deal with. Not my cup of tea. If the breeder has a lot of other responsibilities and are away from the house/property a lot, they will probably have a decline in survival rate. Breeders hate loosing pups, so most of them stay below the number they can manage well.

Please elaborate your logic. Not clear what you are saying. I think what Steve may be saying is that you are all asking for regulation on what should and should not be bred- just because YOU don't like these crossbreeds/mixes you don't think they should exist. Is that not a form of BSL??? (Steve, correct me if I'm wrong but that's how I read it :D ) I understood it that way too. Guess I was confused cause I -- and some others posting -- don't seek such legislation . . . rather for an acceptance that old breeds might disappear and new breeds may appear . . . some of them through crossbreeding. Dog roles change. Dog breeds need to change also. The 'breed standard' doesn't easily allow for change. So of course people move outside the framework of pedigree breeding.

I'm not Jodi . . . but suggest that there's a story about a dog fighting ring stealing dogs, and the police being unwilling to investigate. Include a sad story and a number for people to call if they have information. That would boost readership in the local fish wrap :D and might actually help the situation. Someone else may have better suggestions . . . I'm not an expert . . . but this does sound like a cast that needs public attention. I'm confused, i was replying to Jodi1981 but i'm sorry, i dont think its funny what you just said about the boosting readership. Just think how you would feel if someone made a joke about your missing dog, and think about the fact that it may be used for baiting... ETA: sandgrubber, something like that would not normally bother me but i am worried about the dog. And the paper idea sounds great ill talk to my sister about it. Sorry to be cynical at the wrong time. I find that papers are only interested in stories that readers find interesting. I do think your story falls into this category, so you may find local papers interested. I didn't mean it as a joke. It is a very serious situation. The sad conundrum is that it is often easier to get a situation taken seriously if you are able to embarass the authorities by going public . . . and the media live by selling copy.

Please elaborate your logic. Not clear what you are saying.

Another annoyance for many workers is the owner. I'm an owner. I don't make large profit margins and can't pay high wages. Most of the people I hire love dogs and would like to spend all their time working with the dogs. Unfortunately, I have to push them to do things like filling in and screening off the holes the dogs have dug in the lawn or cleaning up the kitchen. Not fun jobs. And there's always tension about how long it takes to do a task , eg, give a dog a hydrobath. I give free hydrobaths to dogs in kennels for more than five days. I don't intend that to be a 30 minute bath than includes grooming, cutting out gnarls, etc. Kennel hands often -- and I respect them for it -- want to do it right. Sometimes there are also tensions about dog welfare. Many kennel owners are more bloody minded than I am and define 'exercise' as letting the dogs run in a yard for 15 to 30 minutes a day while the kennels are hosed down. Many kennel hands see what this does to the dogs and find it really unpleasant to be part of the system. Bottom line: before you take on a kennel job, make sure you and the owner/manager have harmonious notions of how a dog should be treated. It's a rough trade, and owners are rarely skilled people managers . . . so turnover is pretty high and there are a lot of frustrations.

I'm not Jodi . . . but suggest that there's a story about a dog fighting ring stealing dogs, and the police being unwilling to investigate. Include a sad story and a number for people to call if they have information. That would boost readership in the local fish wrap :D and might actually help the situation. Someone else may have better suggestions . . . I'm not an expert . . . but this does sound like a cast that needs public attention.

I don't see how people can bemoan the pending extinction of some breeds and condemn the process that may create new breeds. The modern environment does offer niches for new breeds. As an aging Labrador breeder, I'd love to find a breed that was Lab-like in temperament and intelligence, but smaller, with a thinner coat. The ADF preferred Lab X kelpies in Vietnam (plenty to be found in rescue . .. no deliberate breeding involved) . . . Lab for temperament, kelpie for lightness, quickness and endurance in hot weather, both breeds highly trainable. There would be strong demand for a breed that was not allergenic but didn't have the grooming requirements of the poodle or lagotto. Perhaps one could be developed using hairless bloodlines. There's a wonderful spaniel X border collie who comes to my kennels. She has all the quickness and agility of a BC but lacks the herding drive and intensity that often makes herding dogs difficult in the 'burbs. The rat terrier is essentially a mixed breed dog that has settled down into a predictable type over 100 yrs or so (terrier mixed with a bit of beagle and some whippet, plus who knows what else) . . . for that matter, the Lab is essentially a mixed breed dog with leading input from the St John's dog of NE Canada, plus various gun dog breeds . . . with 200 yrs or so for lines to stabilise. I'm not saying that selective breeding doesn't work . . . just that cross breeding has had some successes. I agree with others, continual F1 crosses are not a good thing, and the creation of a new breed should be done with a distinct niche for the breed. It should also be recognised that many breeds' original niches are gone or disappearing fast . . . cart dogs, dogs that go to ground for badgers and fiercer pray, temple dogs . . . and not very many people want high maintenance dogs. It wouldn't work to selectively breed for, say, Labrador, that was smaller, lighter, and lacked a dual coat. You'd be slammed for working away from the breed standard. But there is a ready market for such a dog.

My least favourite are ones who refuse to desex their mixed breed males and allow you to watch a dog become progressively more difficult to handle and more aggressive toward other dogs as it comes back on successive stays. Also unpopular are those who chisel hoping to get a refund or get someone to pay vet or grooming costs. Eg, had someone very upset cause their dog Border Collie (who had been in for three days) came home 'covered with dags' all down his back. We didn't notice dags . . . but there's no way a BC will develop serious dags in three days. People with undisciplined kids are also a pain. We let people come in and see where their dog will be staying and meet the dogs it will be playing with if it is to be socialised in the exercise yard. . . or choose which kennel run their dog will stay in. This often causes a bit of commotion, but makes the customer feel more comfortable. The exercise can get crazy if naughty kids are running around wanting to meet all the dogs, opening gates, etc. By in large, though, I find our owners are great people, and I consider meeting the owners, and especially seeing the reunion of dog and owner at pickup, to be among the positive things in kennel life.