sandgrubber

Please clarify oblique references. I have no knowledge of Don Chip or Tigger, or whatever. I think many others are left shrugging their shoulders.

Stupid moods are contagious, but reflect deeper feelings. I was thinking more along a Cher model. Dog shows should be about dogs, not about touch up.

Thats what the Koreans say. The Koreans were outraged in 2002 (World Cup) when the rest of the world suggested that perhaps they should enforce their own laws. They said exactly that. We don't beat our animals to death with metal bars, hang them (not to break the neck, but to suffocate), boil them alive, ect. Just goes to show their attitude. I dont think they make any real attempts at secrecy regarding those practices, but they just don't think it is relevant. Sounds like a racist proclaimation to me. 'They' is a billion plus people spread out over an area much larger than Australia, with a history that goes back well before our year 0. No question some awful things happen, and some authorities turn a blind eye. But I think you need to be careful about generalising. I don't think dog fighting is popular in either China or Korea (though it seems to have some history in Japan???) . . . it's illegal here, but from what I can see, the law doesn't do much to obliterate it. Is blood sport more humane than tenderising an animal while it is live? Yuck. Both are detestable. The 'eating' tradition, at least, doesn't seem to have a group of people getting their rocks off by watching an animal suffer . . . and thus feeding into child abuse, spouse abuse, and a bunch of other ugly things.

Defended her? I don't see anyone doing so. Such acts cannot be defended. Prevention is better than cure. It would have been much better if a person in these circumstances either didn't have a dog or had a dog that couldn't have pups. Unfortunately, a lot of people have little control of their lives, and I think this is getting worse as the generations move on. I'd rather not end out paying taxes to cover the costs of keeping the out-of-control folks in prison and pay for much cheaper remedies that make it easy for them to do the right thing.

Go for it . . . or zinc, which will make him/her look worse. But don't try for Crufts

RIP little pups. Poor everyone! Cases like this turn me in favour of subsidised spey/neuter.

I'm just a loudmouth who does a bit of reading. I have been a research professional, and think it would take a few months of wading through the evidence to present a respectable/publishable argument along the lines I roughed out in my post. Unless someone wants to pay me for it, and I presume no one does, I don't have those months to spare. That said: it's a spectacular PR feat, given the attack statistics, and the relatively low ambiguity about what dog is a Rotti, that Rottweilers aren't at the forefront of BSL. I often chat with a top-quality Rotti breeder. He does have tats on his arms and does lift weights . . . but has strong, well-defined standards regarding his chosen breed (and many other subject). He says he often gets requests from people who own 'tough' dogs to use his very impressive dogs at stud and he proudly dismisses their advances with profane disdain. Likewise, I've seen him and his extended family (all Rotti oriented) take many months to rehome a pup who was brought back . . . because so many of the people who want a Rotti want it for the wrong reasons. I have no idea how the Rotti community works. But I don't see a lot of black and tan pig dogs, or hear of Rotti X's being involved in pit fights or killing off neighborhood children. Unlike APBT's, where confusion with ASBTs and SBT varieties is hard to resolve, the Rotti X is usually an easy dog to spot. My sense is that the GSD community went through challenges many year back and managed to preserve the reputation of their breed, but I'm talking off the top of my head and would have to study the history to be sure of the 'hunch'. The proof is in the pudding. You could say the relative silence of the press on the Rotti and GSD (or for that matter the Doberman) is arbitrary and reflects some malicious trend of hating APBT's. You may be right. But before coming to conclusions about what works, I think it's worth considering the 'guarding / schutz' dogs that have largely escaped BSL and studying what their communities have done to avoid being a target. I should note, I think some fighting terrier breed fans seem to take pleasure in the fighting spirit of their dogs. That is a BIG NO-NO in PR terms. Glorification of fighting must NOT be tolerated. If the same energy that is directed to confronting the RSPCA were applied to people who are breeding for DA/HA traits, I think the bull and mastiff breeds would be doing better in this battle. 'Education' is a knee-jerk cure for everything. It often doesn't work. I think the detractors of BSL need to take a hard look at other factors . . . and I think there's a lot to learn from the 'schutz' breeds that have largely escaped BSL.

I don't think people should give advice if they're not willing to read one long/two short paragraphs.

If sentience is what determines what we should and shouldn't eat, I think 'civilised' countries should ban eating pork. Pigs don't make good house pets, but they are amazingly smart. I'm glad to see the Chinese moving in this direction . . . but I think we need to look at what we eat as well as what others eat. Even if we continue eating bacon, we should be willing to critically look at factory farming of pigs.

Now that's a dog I would be called 'game' by any standard (see discussion of 'game' under BSL). What a little battler! If the owner can't be located, I'll bet she has enough charisma to end out with a good home for her years to come. Hope so. Good on the vets for taking her in.

If you look at the history of BSL in California, you'll find that government was educated in deed not breed and resisted BSL for a long time. But after a long string of spectacular, high-profile cases, eg, children killed when accidentally wandering into a marajuana field which happened to be guarded by a vicious dog, celebs killed by their own dogs, the state government has backed down and allowed regional government to allow mandatory BSL spey-neuter laws (with a permit system that allows people to gain permits that allow breeding). Education alone is not going to be enough. So long as there's a criminal low-life population out there who use dogs as weapons and enjoy blood sport, the public good will built up by education will crumble when breed-specific events make the headlines. Unfortunately, the lowlife part of the population is highly breed-selective. If you can't reduce the extent to which such groups favour a few breeds and uses them for evil purposes, you're not going to have much success getting rid of BSL. There is a problem. It may have more to do with the people that are attracted to a breed than something intrinsic to the breed itself. But the two are connected. If people who prefer vicious dogs take a fancy to some breed and breed up the aggressive traits, the breed is made less socially acceptable in an objective way. I think the GSD and Rotti people are doing very well in avoiding inclusion in BSL. I think most of them know they have to work at it, and quality breeders won't look at puppy-buyers with disreputable (human) pedigrees. If the bull and mastiff breeds want to beat back BSL I'm afraid they're going to have to work at patrolling where their bloodlines end out, and helping authorities to stamp out dog fighting, use of dogs as weapons, and breeding for aggression.

I've been very lucky with my lines. All the girls have been great mothers . . . so broody that they get milk when another girl has pups . .. so tolerant that they let their mother/daughter/sister, or whatever nurse their pups. I can trace this back six generations. Generation seven, there's Molly. She has only had one litter. She was crabby with her own pups and is crabby with everyone else's pups as well. She didn't have much milk either. I think I'll try her once again; some people say they've had bad mothers come good on the second litter. Have other's had a line of good mums produce a girl who isn't? If Molly doesn't come around on her second litter, is it likely that her offspring will also be short on maternal instinct. She's a lovely girl, otherwise. But in some ways, a bad mum is worse than a girl that can't free whelp.

please delete, posted twice . . . don't know what happened.

Spend a bit of time googling and you'll answer your own question . . . The Dogo originated as a fighting dog. See http://www.bulldoginformation.com/dogo-argentino.html The Presa has a reputation for killing people due to a few spectacular cases that got a lot of press, and there has been a worry about them gaining popularity among people wanting 'tough' dogs. see http://www.igorilla.com/gorilla/animal/200...sa_canario.html

If you take a dog from Australia to any place that has rabies (and perhaps a few places that don't have rabies, but have other diseases) you will have to put your dog in quarantine in Australia when you come back. It is very expensive and means you will have to be separated from your dog for at least a month. Not a comittment I would take on lightly.

I agree with Nancyk. When I go to a dog show I want to see the raw dog; not some cooked up creation built out of the dog. Ideally, I'd like an untrained handler to have a fair chance of winning. In my breed (Labradors) we don't do much consmetics . . . but I wonder how many white stars on the chest are removed with texta. If I'm making decisions relating to what to breed for, or what to breed toward, I only want to consider things that can be inherited. . . not what can be added on. If we are lenient about cosmetics, who knows, maybe we'll be getting bitches with tummy tucks showing up in veterans and contact lenses to improve eye colour. Or is that already happening?

It is possible to be ethical without being registered . . . eg, many great working dogs are not registered. As others have stated, it's also possible to be registered and not ethical. In my experience the BYB label is often thrown around by people who think everyone should be like them: commonly by people who believe you shouldn't breed if you don't show, or that you should only breed to preserve your line and not to produce litters for sale as pets. I would hope that people who aren't grinding an axe would use more neutral terms, such as 'unregistered breeder' . . . or describe the situation, eg., breeds but doesn't show, or owns a pretty average dog and a couple bitches and breeds them over and over. The puppy mill label is likewise a matter of opinion and degrees . . . and I'd . I recently toured a kennel where there were two girls in whelp and about to pop, and two girls with litters on the ground . . . I'd guess the owner goes over 10 litters a year. She doesn't show. But the kennels were clean, the dogs appeared friendly, happy and calm, she had three dogs just out of quarantine that she imported for stud purposes. She has her own humicrib. No question it's a business. But I'd say 'puppy mill' is harsh.

The Swiss still have very strong legislation on animal cruelty (including something like mandatory walkies). See, eg. http://www.animallaw.info/articles/ddusicacl.htm for international comparison of animal cruelty legislation. I'm not sure whether the referrendum overturned the animal advocates in Zurich or not . . .

I don't think you need to worry about Mollie's teats unless they are looking big, swollen, hard, painful and the ends are hot. Generally bitches are good about producing the amount of milk that is taken by the pup(s) and a singleton at one week isn't a big feed. If you are bottle feeding, or tube feeding, you need to do it around 4X daily. I can't advise you about quantities, but you should be able to find someone who can do so. I find tube feeding is easier than bottle feeding for really little guys . . . but you should get an expert to help you learn to do it. Would be much better to get the pup back to suckling. Good luck!

We don't know what the lab in the add looks like. The link shows one of a few possibilities . .. I would say a less likely possibility. Semi-brindles and black-and-tans are more common see the Wing-N-Wave pages on Lab colour genetics). Occasional spots, especially on the chest, are not at all rare (I'm told that a certain Gr Ch has a white star that is routinely corrected by dying). It is well established that brindle and black-and-tan mismarks can appear from Labs of excellent breeding. They are highly visible and automatic disqualifications, but I wouldn't say they are a disgrace. Cosmetic defects, in my book, are far less serious than health defects or defects of temperament. I have two brindle-type mismark Labs who stay in my boarding kennel. Both are well bred, but apart from unfortunate colouring, they're regular Labradors.

Looks like fish won't have lawyers in the future . . . but Switzerland will continue to be an interesting place to look for people interested in animal rights issues http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...referendum.html http://' target="_blank"> Swiss voters reject lawyers for animals in referendum Swiss voters have overwhelmingly rejected a controversial plan to appoint lawyers for animals. By Alexandra Williams in Geneva Published: 12:33AM GMT 08 Mar 2010 All of the 26 Swiss cantons on Sunday voted against the proposal by animal rights activists to extend nationwide a system already in place in Zurich. Overall, just 29.5 per cent of voters were in favour. In seven cantons the "No" vote was more than 80 per cent.

The CDC site is down at the moment. Try this one instead: http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%20...6%20Clifton.pdf number of dogs involved in killing or maiming a child or adult in Canada or the US 1982-2006: Score 1100+ for APBTs, 400+ for Rottis, 2 for beagles (but one was a child who got strangled in a game of tug), 1 for pugs, 2 for JRT's . Precisely my point. Relying on ambulance chasing lawyer sites and hate sites who themselves rely on information garnered from unscientific media reports such as the Clifton report achieves nothing. CDC are the epidemiological experts and are good enough for me. Remember too in the US AST, APBT and SBT are legally one and the same breed. Lack of compassion for the victims of small breeds continues to astound me. But those who believe in BSL, why not ban those breeds because they have killed in Australia or show up in attack stats here. For the same reason - they are unreliable. The UK introduced BSL and the RSPCA now admits dog attacks and APBTs are now more prevalent than ever. South Australia was the first state to introduce BSL and they've had to have an inquiry on the massive increase in dog attacks ( an indictment of the Dog and Cat Management Board and BSL). These results are replicated world wide. The science is well and truly in, BSL doesn't work. It is a way to control owners, not dogs, and it even fails to do that so will eventually encompass more breeds. The CDC's report, at the moment, is (I've been trying for two days). The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention website is temporarily unavailable. Please try again in a few minutes. Thank you for your patience. I have tried to follow the chatter . . . which seems to say that the CDC report encountered serious methodological difficulties and draws weak conclusions. Having read the methods for the Clifton report, I agree, the media hype will result in over-representation of the APBT, but your characterisation as "ambulance chasing lawyer sites and hate sites" seems slanderous. No question, the Clifton report reflects media bias. But it is transparent . . . the methods are clear and the source of bias is obvious. As a scientist, myself, I know lots of sources are biased, and in the absence of better data, I will sometimes consider a biased source and try to correct for bias. Even if 10% of the reported APBT attacks are real, the Clifton statistics say something about the owners of the breed, if not the breed itself. Should be noted that the Clifton report is pretty hard on some non pitt-bull types. For example, Akitas, Chows, GSD's and wolf-hybrids come off pretty badly . . . even Labradors chalk up quite a few points. The only study I can find that was done in Australia (Adelaide) is pretty old, but does come up with breed trends -- which GSD owners wouldn't like. See: http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/aug4/t...n/thompson.html A clear picture is difficult in an emotionally charged situation where data are poor. But physics calculates force as mass x velocity squared. A 5 kg dog will thus hit with 20% of the force of a 25 kg dog, if they achieve the same speed. In boarding kennels I sometimes have to manage dogs that will attack and bite. With the little guys, I put on welding gloves and put on a muzzle if required. For the big guys, it sometimes comes down to picking up a chunk of gridmesh to serve as a shield and herding them in and out of their kennel run . . . getting close enough to put on a muzzle can be scary or simply not worth the risk.

Wonder what happens to Swiss pigs?

The CDC site is down at the moment. Try this one instead: http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%20...6%20Clifton.pdf number of dogs involved in killing or maiming a child or adult in Canada or the US 1982-2006: Score 1100+ for APBTs, 400+ for Rottis, 2 for beagles (but one was a child who got strangled in a game of tug), 1 for pugs, 2 for JRT's .

I don't expect to agree with everything any court decides. Still, having courts is a good thing. Even if the decision was that the angler did nothing wrong, it would have been good that an attempt was made to determine whether it was senseless/needless cruelty.