sandgrubber

Looks like fish won't have lawyers in the future . . . but Switzerland will continue to be an interesting place to look for people interested in animal rights issues http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/...referendum.html http://' target="_blank"> Swiss voters reject lawyers for animals in referendum Swiss voters have overwhelmingly rejected a controversial plan to appoint lawyers for animals. By Alexandra Williams in Geneva Published: 12:33AM GMT 08 Mar 2010 All of the 26 Swiss cantons on Sunday voted against the proposal by animal rights activists to extend nationwide a system already in place in Zurich. Overall, just 29.5 per cent of voters were in favour. In seven cantons the "No" vote was more than 80 per cent.

The CDC site is down at the moment. Try this one instead: http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%20...6%20Clifton.pdf number of dogs involved in killing or maiming a child or adult in Canada or the US 1982-2006: Score 1100+ for APBTs, 400+ for Rottis, 2 for beagles (but one was a child who got strangled in a game of tug), 1 for pugs, 2 for JRT's . Precisely my point. Relying on ambulance chasing lawyer sites and hate sites who themselves rely on information garnered from unscientific media reports such as the Clifton report achieves nothing. CDC are the epidemiological experts and are good enough for me. Remember too in the US AST, APBT and SBT are legally one and the same breed. Lack of compassion for the victims of small breeds continues to astound me. But those who believe in BSL, why not ban those breeds because they have killed in Australia or show up in attack stats here. For the same reason - they are unreliable. The UK introduced BSL and the RSPCA now admits dog attacks and APBTs are now more prevalent than ever. South Australia was the first state to introduce BSL and they've had to have an inquiry on the massive increase in dog attacks ( an indictment of the Dog and Cat Management Board and BSL). These results are replicated world wide. The science is well and truly in, BSL doesn't work. It is a way to control owners, not dogs, and it even fails to do that so will eventually encompass more breeds. The CDC's report, at the moment, is (I've been trying for two days). The Centers for Disease Control and Prevention website is temporarily unavailable. Please try again in a few minutes. Thank you for your patience. I have tried to follow the chatter . . . which seems to say that the CDC report encountered serious methodological difficulties and draws weak conclusions. Having read the methods for the Clifton report, I agree, the media hype will result in over-representation of the APBT, but your characterisation as "ambulance chasing lawyer sites and hate sites" seems slanderous. No question, the Clifton report reflects media bias. But it is transparent . . . the methods are clear and the source of bias is obvious. As a scientist, myself, I know lots of sources are biased, and in the absence of better data, I will sometimes consider a biased source and try to correct for bias. Even if 10% of the reported APBT attacks are real, the Clifton statistics say something about the owners of the breed, if not the breed itself. Should be noted that the Clifton report is pretty hard on some non pitt-bull types. For example, Akitas, Chows, GSD's and wolf-hybrids come off pretty badly . . . even Labradors chalk up quite a few points. The only study I can find that was done in Australia (Adelaide) is pretty old, but does come up with breed trends -- which GSD owners wouldn't like. See: http://www.mja.com.au/public/issues/aug4/t...n/thompson.html A clear picture is difficult in an emotionally charged situation where data are poor. But physics calculates force as mass x velocity squared. A 5 kg dog will thus hit with 20% of the force of a 25 kg dog, if they achieve the same speed. In boarding kennels I sometimes have to manage dogs that will attack and bite. With the little guys, I put on welding gloves and put on a muzzle if required. For the big guys, it sometimes comes down to picking up a chunk of gridmesh to serve as a shield and herding them in and out of their kennel run . . . getting close enough to put on a muzzle can be scary or simply not worth the risk.

Wonder what happens to Swiss pigs?

The CDC site is down at the moment. Try this one instead: http://www.dogbitelaw.com/Dog%20Attacks%20...6%20Clifton.pdf number of dogs involved in killing or maiming a child or adult in Canada or the US 1982-2006: Score 1100+ for APBTs, 400+ for Rottis, 2 for beagles (but one was a child who got strangled in a game of tug), 1 for pugs, 2 for JRT's .

I don't expect to agree with everything any court decides. Still, having courts is a good thing. Even if the decision was that the angler did nothing wrong, it would have been good that an attempt was made to determine whether it was senseless/needless cruelty.

I'm getting old myself, though I've got awhile to run before turning frail. I would sure as hell rather be attacked by a couple feral silky terriers (I'd clobber them with my cane or kick the little buggers) than by a couple feral Rotti's, mastifs, GSD's, Akitas, cattle dogs, pig dogs or other 25+ kg dogs with strong guarding instincts and possibly strong prey drive. I agree that bad owners of a large dog are likely to be bad owners of a small dog. But the owners of feral large dogs tend to be of the 'size matters' school, and given a choice between a pet rock and a small dog, I think many of them would choose the rock. If you check any data on fatal attacks (Google away to your heart's content) you'll find that small dogs are rarely the culprits.

The behaviour you describe is not normal for a Labrador. I agree with others about finding a behaviouralist. I'd say the problem could well be hard wired in the brain, if not hereditary. It would be worth discussing this with the breeder. Few Lab breeders would be happy turning out dogs with a-typical behaviour of this sort, and most would want to know about it. An honest breeder may also tell you if other pups of similar breeding have had the same problem.

I respect the Swiss system. Animals do need advocates. I'm haunted by a story I've told a couple times on DOL .. . family pet Lab bites child. They go for the green dream. After the dog is asleep on the green dream they discover that her ear is full of staples. If there had been even a simple process to determine whether the dog in question was vicious, it would have been decided that the problem was cruelty to animals and the poor dog was just acting in self defence. Not sure what I think about fish . . . but agree that making a sport out of slowly killing any animal is not something an enlightened society would support.

If there's a new, effective drug for obsessive-compulsive disorder in dogs, that's great news, particularly if it's affordable. As for depression, I think one in five is a conservative estimate. The number that seem to prefer our boarding kennel to their home is greater than 20%. I'd say less than 50% of dogs get enough stimulation, socialisation and exercise. But I agree . . . drugs are not the solution for this problem.

Severity of injury doesn't matter????? Are you saying an ankle bite that causes a flesh wound is as bad as getting killed or ending up in hospital with severe flesh trauma to arms, face, neck, etc.?

If you can't pin it on the owners, there will be no change. If the local authorities aren't willing to charge the guilty owners and fine them enough to get their attention, then there's not a lot you can do . . . except, perhaps, be ruthless and let the situation take care of itself.

Good on you for not naming names. You'd likely be up for a lawsuit if you had done so. The dog world, unfortunately, is awash with malicious rumours. Make sure before you spread gossip.

Sorry - it's been a few days but I only saw this post just now. You said you had 10 pups each with vaginal AI's. Are you willing to tell me which vet you used? I am also in WA and am contemplating breeding a maiden bitch using frozen semen. I usually go to Applecross who now use the trans servical method to A.I. Have PM'd you. This was chilled, not frozen semen. Applecross did the prog testing.

Sorry to hear Mischa isn't suckling. Will she suck on your finger? If not it's likely that she's in bad shape. If so, it's likely that there's something about Molly that isn't working. If you do go to the vet and she/he recommends feeding formula, you might ask about tube feeding. It sounds horrid, but it can be much easier and effective for feeding very young pups . . . provided you do it right.

Given the hype and counter hype, I find it hard to be objective about APBTs, and wind up as a fence-sitter on this debate. If the debate is to be resolved, people are going to have to build better cases. Lots of assertion being thrown around with little evidence, apart from long lists of anecdotes. Eg, in the above, Dogs from fighting lines (such as Peterbilt) did not produce successful fighters. Being polygenetic (such as many traits) it is quickly lost. The easy/biddable, moderate temperament in Labradors and many other Group 3 breeds is polygenetic, and tends to be present in Group 3 X-breeds. A Lab X kelpie is likely to be toned down from the high-strung, energetic, somewhat manic temperament that makes kelpies great herding dogs but dogs that require good management to make good pets. Also in the above: Giving a dog a weaker opponent or a bait animal destroys it's usefulness as a fighter. Totally unsupported by evidence, and I see no reason to believe it is true.

Poor woman. What bothers me most in this story is not breed, but numbers. Large, not-friendly dogs should not be permitted to roam in packs. I'm no expert on dog behaviour, but as I understand it, dogs with drive are much more likely to take on large game (including people and cattle) if they are in a pack situation. That this was permitted shows a serious break down of government.

Interesting. I assumed it was something like the game in "I'm game" . . . and thus meaning up for anything, enthusiastic, or at least willing to go along. Game as an adjective is a word going back to the 1600s. It is from a very Old English word "gamen" which means joy or pleasure. Funny how a word can take on so many meanings.

I learned about a new version of NIMBY. It's COVE. Stands for Committee Against Virtually Everything. Sounds like a good issue for them to take on.

Cant you trust the person you are selling her to? Good question. I think I trust her, but I wish I had more trust in my own ability to judge character. I am a trusting sort, and a few people have violated my trust. By far the easiest solution is to let the pup go on the Mains and hope for the best. The pup has great health profiles as far back as I can follow her pedigree, so maybe I'm being overprotective. Gawd damn it's hard to find the balance between trust and doing your part to ensure that people do the right thing. Maybe I should give up trying to be policeman. In some ways I think the growing tendency to caution and 'accountability', aka officious behaviour, is a worse scourge than the occasional small scale breeder who tries to make money off breeding a bitch that shouldn't have been bred. I have a gut aversion to co-ownership as a way of exherting power after a pup once it placed.

Have you gotten a quote from Applecross. I had some frozen semen with them for a short time. I don't remember what the fee was, but I know it was annual, and I think it was closer to $50 than $150.

Probably cost a few hundred dollars max, and less time than people have wasted responding to this thread. Come on guys. This is a democracy. Open letter. BFD!!!!! People, and organisations, even misguided organisations, have a right to mouth off.

Agreed 100%. But for people who hit tyranny of distance on finding the ideal mate, AI is a godsend.

I want to transfer a girl on Main Register with No-Breeding until she's reached a year and had health tests as appropriate for the breed done. Unfortunately, as things stand with my breed, you have to do the tests before you can breed, the regs will allow breeding for a dog/bitch with bad hips or elbows. Sire and dam are both PRA clear, so genetic eye tests not needed. The obvious way to do it is a Non-Breeding Contract. That will require me to eventually do a secondary bit of paperwork to repeal the non-breeding contract once the tests have been passed. Is there a way I can get myself out of the loop, and set it up so that the Non-Breeding Contract dies if and when health tests are done and acceptable results are presented to the relevant Canine Association. p.s. I'm in WA, the bitch is going to SA. I'm thinking of moving back to the USA and would like to make things simple for the puppy buyer and open a channel for the breeder to require health testing even where the K9 authorities haven't been willing to do so. I'm no spring chicken. In th bigger picture, I'd like to set it up to avoid legal chaos that benefits only the [accursed] solicitors should I meet an early demise.

Where are you? Vitality is a great deal, but you can only get it directly from the factory in Naval Base WA.

An open letter is hardly a major investment I love watching CM, but don't find his advice is particularly useful for my own dogs. Hard to see him as harmful, however. I sense, from the amount of time the author spent on CM's rags-to-riches bio, that the author is a fan, and has an agenda other than neutral presentation of news.