sandgrubber

Hi I don't know Mt Lawley, but there are places on the river around there where dogs can go off lead. The dog park question has all sorts of angles and I think everyone has to sort it out for themselves. If there are irresponsible people around, with DA dogs, dog parks can get awful. But generally there is some time of day where the 'baddies' aren't around and you can work out a routine that lets you meet other dogs, play a bit, and have a run and swim. You'll find lots of good food options if you like raw stuff. Australia is awash in meat. I buy in bulk from an outfit that exports kangaroo meat and makes dog rolls (cooked stuff . . . kinda yucky but better than canned food). You can get good basic ground chicken for less than $1.50/kg . . . about twice that for red meat. Or if you're happy to pay more, you'll find frozen BARF patties, etc. in the chainstore pet/garden shops (CityFarmers and Better Pets and Gardens). Try google on the names in parens and you'll probably find some description of what foods they carry. If you go to the shire website (xxx.wa.gov.au, where xxx is the shire name) and find some search option, you should be able to find dog park information).

I have had a few litters with white spots, never Bolo pads. Great story btw. I find people like the white spot on pets . . . one family named the pup 'Stella' for 'star' (Spanish and other Latin languages). They were quite disappointed when it shrank down to a few white hairs

Tears come more easily than words. RIP godspeed It's wonderful to see all the support this community has to offer. Sounds like Jed has a long haul ahead of her. I'm in the midst of moving between continents and feel unable to offer much but a financial donation. Wonderful to see all the support the DOL community has offered. I hope, and expect, that support will continue to flow for many months to come.

I think that if you really care about your pups, you'd be glad to spend adequate time with puppy buyers . . . including time BEFORE decisions are finalised. It isn't nice to be put on the spot and have someone say 'take it or leave it'.

I'd be interested to know what messes people have gotten into by inappropriate use of oxitocin. I'm aware of a few pups who were whelped dead that would probably have lived if the 'final flush' dosage of oxitocin had been given when the bitch went into post-whelping resting state with a pup still inside. I have heard rumors of awful things happening from incorrect timing for oxitocin. Never heard any specifics. Note, vets do some awful things too. I know someone who recently took a bitch in for a C-section .. . and the vets LEFT A PUPPY inside her. She whelped it dead and rotting a week later. Fortunately, she survived. READ. My arrangement with the vet is that she makes the meds available. I call her before using it. She and I have discussed at length the protocols for administration. She recommends a low-end dosage. I'm NOT saying get oxitocin and use it willy nilly. I am saying it may save you the expense and your vet the hassle of a visit at 2 am. Also, the situation after the whelping is complete . . . but maybe there's still a pup lurking in there . . . but it's been 2 hours since the last pup . . . is safe. Yes. Caution is required. Some people have done damage to bitch and pups by using drugs wrongly. That has also happened with herbals, over-the-counter meds, and all sorts of other things. However, sensible people who are capable of keeping a cool head after many sleepless hours sitting next to the whelping box may still do well to gain access to oxitocin. Oxytocin given at the wrong time during whelping can cause untold damage to bitch and pups. It is nothing to do with the actual administration or dosage. It is all about timing and the average inexperienced breeder would not have the knowledge to use their experience to time it correctly without the supervision of a vet. In which case, best off to leave it to the vet in the first place. YOU may have the knowledge and I daresay that I would have the knowledge given my experience with whelping my own puppies and those belonging to other people, but many/most breeders would NOT and I have seen and heard of some pretty awful things resulting from mistimed hormone shots.

Lovely pictures. Thanks for posting.

You would have no trouble getting an exception for such a dog under any of the California mandatory desexing programs. It's something of a misnomer to call them mandatory desexing. They are usually opt out desexing schemes . .. where you are required to desex by default but can easily choose to keep a dog / bitch entire if you play by the rules.

I just rehomed my oldest. She was not getting on well with the younger dogs and acting depressed. A family who already had an older dog . . . a pup they got from me seven years ago . . . came by asking if I might have any dogs available. The old girl loves children but isn't so fond of pups. She loves people period. I miss her deeply. Her snoring has been background to my sleep for nine years. But I think it's selfish to hold on to a dog when they aren't doing well in the environment you have to offer. It's lovely to talk with the new family and hear that my nine year old is doing zoomies with their seven year old, following the kids around all day, and that her biggest problem is that the bed is too high so she needs help to get up on it to sleep. Please hold back on judgement.

You gotta do what you gotta do . . . but a baby taken from his family is going to look to whatever he can find for support. Time makes pups more independent, as it does with human bubs. Have a good look at the puppy development calendar in the pinned section at the top of this forum. It may give you a better idea of what to expect of your pup, and understanding of approximately when he will need what sort of support.

Interesting article but doesn't give you enough to do a cost/benefit analysis. The problem is that word 'significantly' . . . which when a scientist uses it means, within the framework of the experiment, there's little chance of the observed results occurring at random. Sometimes TINY TINY effects are quite significant. So if some rare cancer is significantly more likely, it may mean bugger all. While a common cancer being more likely at a low test of significance (eg, no large study has been done so the error bars on the experiment are large) may be much more of a worry. I run a boarding kennel. Non-desexed dogs, especially males, are more trouble. They often don't play nicely; they often pee on walls and beds and occasionally my leg; and if there's a bitch in season in the vacinity they sometimes get moody and tempermental to the point of not eating. The desexed boys are generally more cruisy and easy going. All I've observed says that entire males who aren't used at stud tend to get pretty frustrated, and some of 'em don't cope with frustration very well. Too bad our society puts such a stigma on castration, and so much emphasis on testes. It would be interesting to know if eunichs are, in general, less troubled than entire human males. Long term risks of desexing

In theory you could use a boy at 8 months if you wanted to take a risk on the hip and elbow scores. The hip and elbow scores must be registered before the litter is registered, but that's usually four months after the mating. Given that Lab standards only require that hip and elbow scores are on file, rather than have them be of some standard, you'd still be able to register the litter if the scores came back bad. But in my experience, you'd have to be a pretty good studmaster to get a successful mating out an 8 mo old dog. Personally, I don't like to use a dog younger than 2 yrs, and I prefer to use an old boy who is tried and true. Using an older dog makes sure you see how the dog matures and whether any mid-life problems are apparent, and it avoids the bandwagon of everyone using such and such a dog cause he showed brilliantly in the National (or whatever), only to find out that he has some unfortunate tendency (throws bad mouths, poor temperament, yadda, yadda yadda).

I would say any litter with three pups born dead is a difficult whelping. Even if it only took three hours. Dead pups are hard for the bitch to deliver. They don't semi-crawl up the birth canal. Makes it hard for the bitch, specially if it's a big dead pup. I have no problem with people discussing oxitocin with their vet and using it if the vet feels comfortable dispensing it to them. Sub-cutaneous injection is really easy. My own vet knows my history and pointed out that I've probably spent twice as many hours in science labs than she has . . . so she wasn't worried about not measuring correctly or miscalculating dosage. My experience as a breeder is in the middle range, so she did request that I call her before administering the stuff (It's a lot less hastle to be waked up in the middle of the night to talk on the phone than it is to do a house call) . .. she was fine on my giving one jab when the whelping seemed to be over . .. to clean out any placentas that might be hanging around and / or give a push to that last pup. Btw labs seem to have a tendency to hold on to one pup and deliver it several hours later after everyone thinks she's done. Sometimes the pup lives. Sometimes not.

I believe the record shows that mandatory desexing can work, even where enforcement isn't strong. Below is text relating to the administration of the Santa Cruz law . . . note, Santa Cruz has no BSL and looks like free spey/neuter is available to most anybody who would have trouble coming up with the dosh. Sometimes we have to accept some regulation of our actions to allow enforcement of laws against irresponsible or outright vicious people. 6.10.050 Unaltered animal certification; administration. A. The director of animal control services shall administer a certification program to allow for unaltered animals over the age of six months when the director of animal control services determines that the following conditions have been met: 1. The animal is examined annually by a licensed veterinarian and is following the preventative health care program recommended by the veterinarian; 2. The owner has not been convicted of one or more violations of the following offenses within the preceding twenty-four months: a. County Code Section 6.12.100 (harassment, threat or injury by dog), b. County Code Section 6.12.110 (dog killing domesticated animal), c. County Code Section 6.12.130 (dog threatening or injuring livestock or wild game), d. County Code Section 6.12.140 (unrestrained vicious animal), e. County Code Section 6.16.020 (failure to acquire permit for a kennel/pet shop), f. County Code Section 6.20.030 E (refusing demand to produce animal), g. County Code Section 6.24.060 (failure to provide requested information), h. County Code Section 6.24.080 (interference with director of animal control services), i. Health and Safety Code Section 121705 (concealing bite information), j. Penal Code Section 286.5 (sexual assault on animal), k. Penal Code Section 596 (poisoning of animal), l. Penal Code Section 597 (animal cruelty), m. Penal Code Section 597.5 (fighting dogs), n. Penal Code Section 599aa (seizure of fighting dogs), o. Penal Code Sections 487e, 487f, or 487g (theft of animal); 3. The owner has not been convicted of two or more violations of the following offenses involving the dog for whom the unaltered animal certification is sought, within the preceding twenty-four months: a. County Code Section 6.12.010 (dog at large), b. County Code Section 6.12.020 (dog off leash); c. County Code Section 6.08.020 (vaccination required); 4. Within the preceding twenty-four months, the owner has not received a director of animal control services order involving the dog for whom the unaltered animal certification is sought, pursuant to: a. County Code Section 6.04.100 A (quarantine a dog for biting a person), b. County Code Section 6.04.100 C (impounding a dog for nonconfinement), c. County Code Section 6.20.020 D (impounding a vicious animal without notice,); and such determination has not been expressly overturned by the animal nuisance abatement appeals commission; 5. The dog for whom the unaltered animal certification is sought, has not been determined by the director of animal control services to be a “vicious animal” pursuant to County Code Section 6.24.070, unless such determination has been expressly overturned by the animal nuisance abatement appeals commission; 6. The animal is properly housed and cared for as follows: a. The animal is provided sufficient quantity of good and wholesome food and water, b. The animal is provided shelter that will allow the animal to stand up, turn around, and lay down without laying in his/her feces. That the area where the animal is kept is properly cleaned and disinfected, c. If the animal is a dog, it must be fully contained on the owner’s property and be provided appropriate exercise, d. The animal owner otherwise complies with any applicable state law concerning the care and housing of animals; 7. The owner furnishes the director of animal control services with a signed statement agreeing to the following conditions: a. The female unaltered animal will have no more than one litter per year, unless the owner furnishes the director of animal control services in advance of any breeding, a written statement from a licensed veterinarian recommending that the female feline be allowed to have up to two litters per year. This written recommendation may result from the annual examination required pursuant to subsection (A)(1) of this section, b. Offspring of the unaltered animal will not be sold or adopted until they are at least seven weeks of age, c. Records will be kept documenting how many offspring were produced and who adopted or purchased them; 8. The dog for whom the unaltered animal certification is sought is currently licensed as required by Chapter 6.08 of this code. B. Any person advertising to the public, the availability of any dog or cat subject to certification pursuant to this chapter, for adoption, sale, barter or other transfer must prominently display his or her unaltered animal certification number in the advertisement. The certification number shall also be provided to any person adopting or purchasing any dog or cat subject to certification pursuant to this chapter, that is bred in the unincorporated area of the county. C. Any owner of an unspayed or unneutered dog or cat who has been cited for failing to obtain an unaltered animal certification shall have his or her citation dismissed if they are subsequently issued an unaltered animal certification, or if there is proof that the animal has been spayed or neutered within thirty days of the issuance of the citation. D. Any owner who is denied an unaltered animal certification or whose certification is revoked by the director of animal control services for failure to comply with the requirements of this section may appeal such denial or revocation to the nuisance abatement appeals commission pursuant to the provisions of Chapter 2.66 of this code. (Ord. 4490 § 3 (part), 1998: Ord. 4409 § 1, 1996: Ord. 4305 § 1 (part), 1994)

Ask local vet . . . and keep asking your local vet. Not sure about ticks, but heartworm incidence and anything mosquito borne will move around from year to year. I think it's safer to assume heartworm IS possible in most of Australia.

I voted yes. I think breeders who are serial offenders of ethical standards should loose their right to keep entire dogs. I'm about to move to Santa Cruz County, California, where you are required to get a permit to keep an entire dog. It's not expensive, but requires annual renewal . . . renewal requires a vet exam . .. people with multiple infringements of dog laws may loose their breeders' permits. They also do a lot of subsidised spey neuter. The laws have been in place for a decade or so, maybe more. It has helped keep the shelter populaton down, despite the fact that enforcement is pretty lax (lots of people live in the mountains on rural properties. The county only bothers them if neighbours complain).

Seems like 95% of the people who come and look at pups here end out buying one. I regard the desire to meet the family and see the pup's environment as natural and healthy, and I think puppy buyers would be more anxious, and thus more likely to pester, if they didn't see all the dogs (except the sire, often an interstate dog). I run a boarding kennel . . . it's about 50 m from the house . . . so it's generally easy for me to meet visitors, and it's also relatively protected from theft. I think I'd give up breeding if the interface with puppy buyers was a problem.

Maybe someone can find a reference ... I can't. I remember reading an academic study comparing Labbies and Goldies in terms of temperament, directly relating to Guide Dog work. They did some interesting behavioural tests. If I remember correctly they found the Lab was a better bet ... more focussed ... less excitable .. . ok, wombat if you like . . . but wombat whose attention can be trained on doing a useful job.

The "pit bull problem" is different in US, of course. The 'problem' is different in different regions in the US. You can find reactionary, proBSL places, and places that equate BSL to racism and fall on the side of treating each dog as an individual.

I'm about to move to Santa Cruz County, California. I like their general framework of dog management. Manditory desexing . . . not breed specific . . . people who want to keep entire dogs/bitches can get permits, but this requires an annual vet check and a clean record re dogs wandering, aggression, various complaints, etc. Various programs to support low-cost desexing. Rather weak policing (like most of California, the government is on the brink of bankruptcy) . . . but police powers likely to come on line if there are serious infringements. Petshops can't sell puppies.

I run a boarding kennel. Occasionally, we get a SBT with wonderful conformation, clearly pedigree/Main Register, who is difficult with other dogs and a bit out of control re people (mostly jumping, full body mass directed to the human centre of gravity). We get lots of 'staffy X' dogs, sometimes two from the same household, who are essentially DA, and cannot be mixed with other dogs. The last two dogs I've had to take to the vet for stitching up were Staffy X dogs from the same household who got into a barney and someone got a bit torn up. Ugly though it is, someone needs to do policing. Clubs generally put it in the 'too hard' basket. But if you see a problem arising re hereditary aspects of temperament and certain breeders, I'd say slog it out through the breed club to end out with self-patrolling. Better than ending up with a breed that becomes a restricted breed. I also sense -- sorry no stats to back it -- a tendency for SBT owners to want to keep the boys with nuts on. Breeders could do more to support desexing.

I'm not going far into your long list. I do not worshop the market mechanism but find it hard to find a better way to regulate economic transactions. In my experience, 'solve everything' solutions are . . .put it in german ... quatsch. But Jezus K-Rist. Are you saying that it's not ok to make a profit on selling pups at some minor profit if you do reasonable screening on health and temperament. Breeders are providing a product. Hopefully, healthy dogs of predictable temperament. They deserve to earn at least minimum wage for all the time spent and some bonus for absorbing the many risks you take when you breed a dog or provide guarantees on the pups sold. No wonder the DD people are running laps around the pedigree breeders.

In answer to the original question . . . there isn't a lot of hope. The breed communities are not willing to take on responsibility for breeding for good (or against aggressive) temperament. The anti-BSL community includes many individuals who happily and aggressively jump on anyone who voices an opinion (informed or naive) relating to restriction of breeds. No one seems willing to do the hard yards relating to statistics -- but many are happy to attack statistics they consider to be biased. Ugly concondrum.

Bottom line: it's complicated; genetics is a craps shoot; and many vets tred beyond their realm of competence. I don't know what an 'OCD Lesion' means and can't form an opinion. The guts of the matter is the genetics is complex and environment has a hand to play; and bad Xrays or positioning can result in misdiagnosis.. Good luck sorting out the many variables.

Education is a cop out. If anything is going wrong, politically, the quick response is 'more education' Big questions are WHO IS RESPONSIBILE FOR EDUCATING -- I'd put a big onus on the breeders (including an onus to patrol dodgy breeders). We all know that a few councils do a good job, but mostly, councils are rotten in enforcing dog regs, and the state level is no better. In terms of pedigree dog registrations, SBT's are vying with Labbies for #1 in Australia. It would help this situation if the SBT clubs would get heavy handed in promoting responsible breeding for temperement and responsible placement of pups with homes. If more responsibility is taken with respect to breeding and placement, my guess is the SBT will come out of it with no harm done. Good Staffies are a pleasure to own and be around. Bad Staffies can be a real curse. If this is managed really badly, the SBT may end out on the Restricted Breeds list in Oz . . . as it is in most of the European Union. We are never going to get incidents invovling dogs to zero, but if people followed the basic rules of on leash, effective control and keeping their dogs on their own property, there would be a reduction. Education is the only thing that is going to reduce the number of attacks that involve dogs in their own home. Owners need to choose wisely the breed that is best suited to them, provide an enriched environment for that dog, include the dog as part of the family, supervise, train and socialise it. Of course "Staffordshire Bull Terrier " is going to top the list, it includes the generic "staffy", the brindle dog that could be anything. I'd like to see no dog registered as a certain breed, unless you bring with it the ANKC papers, that correspond with the microchip. I think we'd see a big shift in the stats and "cross breeds" would be topping the list.

Looks like the original poster is not checking in and not giving thanks for advice. P' off. This is not a service for getting your homework done for you. Courtesy demands that you respond to people who take the time to respond. Grumpy