sandgrubber

Personally, I go for the biggest heart. Labs get my very prejudiced vote.

After hearing of others experiences with epilepsy -- which are very different and much sadder than my own -- I apologise for my previous comment that I'd as soon euthanise a child for epilepsy. There are, apparently, situations where death is a merciful solution. But it should not be a knee jerk reaction. In my experience, many epileptic dogs lead long, happy lives and cause no problems . . . other than worry to the owner (watching seizures can be distressing, especially a grand mal, the first time).

I brought the 'broom' problem up with a trainer I work with. She showed me how to 'claim the broom'. This consists of pushing the puppy off the broom, holding it very still (the motion gets the play drive in gear) and firmly telling the puppy no. You need to hold the still position for a minute or two, complete with fixed glaze and stiff posture, like a dog claiming its toy or bone. Much to my surprise it worked!!!! No doubt I'll have to repeat the act next time I sweep.

I wouldn't consider having a dog PTS cause it has epilepsy any more than I'd consider euthanasing a child with the same condition.

I was a utopian when I was younger. I'm more cynical now. Will the councils recruit and pay and hold on to rangers with enough power to enforce what you advocate?

I'd be surprised to find 80% accurate statistics about numbers of dogs of any breed in any country. Ok. There may be some little kingdom somewhere where they take a careful dog census. But in general, we're grasping as straws. But even at 20% accuracy level, I'll bet Labbies are more common than APBT's in the USA . . . based on having lived in the USA for >40 years. I see the current situation vis a vis APBT's in Oz as a stupid drama that causes a lot of suffering to people and the dogs they love. I would prefer not to see another breed with problem potential put into the Australian system until there is a sensible legislative framework, with enforcement capability, in place. What we have now is failing miserably in putting the onus on the owner of the dog. Unfortunately, it takes more than passing a law to bring about change.

Ok. my Portuguese isn't great and I get word endings switched. Believe me, mixing filo (which means phylum in Portuguese) with fila (which means line or file, and also refers to the dog breed) is nowhere as embarassing as confusing pico (hill) with pica (crude word for penis) . . . a mistake that has caused me to blush a few time. Filo does not mean pastry in Portuguese. Or are you among the many that think they speak Spanish in Brazil? Are you saying we should not believe or heed what is in the breed standard regarding behaviour? My point is that where, as in the case of the Fila, the breed standard in the country of origin specifies extreme guard dog, with both HA and DA and other animal aggressive characteristics, caution about importing is a good thing. Given Australian authorities track record in identifying and managing dangerous dogs, the appropriate level of caution is ban imports of the breed until an adequate temperament screening filter has been designed.

In reviewing dog attack statistics, I think the most likely GBH charge is the scenario where a dog attacks a kid from its family on premises. The ultimate cause is dog owners not understanding their dogs and not taking adequate control. Insurance is an ok way to mitigate against dogs that may roam (though I'd prefer something more personal, directed at the owners). But somehow it needs to be drummed through everyone's thick heads that dog + small child is catastrophe waiting to happen. Sometimes even 'nice' doggies aren't so nice. And sometimes children are very stupid in the way they relate to dogs.

As I scientist, I didn't like it. I agree with much of what she says. But she says things fail on the 'scientific' test without offering any evidence. Some of the 'hypotheses' posed are quite hard to test. Eg, how do you test if a prong collar 'works' by mimicing a mother dog's disciplining of a pup. As for the 'acid' test . . . load of whooie. It's just the pseudo science test plus your own prejudices. Good advice. But deceptive packaging.

I'd go with the DNA evidence. But personally, I think dogs ascended from the wolf, not descended

I've got six bitches living in my house, one desexed old girl, three mature brood bitches, and two pups. Labbies. They have never had a fight. They curl up together when it's cold. They steal one another's bones . . . I'm never sure who is dominant.

No less relevance than the made up and obvious false statement that they are the most common breed of dog in the US ;) .

I think compulsory insurance for dogs with a history of attacking is a good idea . . . regardless of breed. But the pole in question is stupid . .. for reasons mentioned above.

As a breeder I often run on pups. They live in the house with the bigger dogs and me. Mostly I get great manners and calm pups, cause they have lots of dog company and the older dogs apply minor discipline as required. They mostly respect my posessions. I can leave my shoes and socks lying around . . . no problems. But there are three areas where I have problems. 1. Brooms. I cannot sweep my floors without a puppy hanging on to the broom. I believe in positive reinforcement and avoiding corrections for young pups. But it's a big nuisance to have them attack the broom every time to sweep. Anyone have a better solution than locking them up somewhere when it's time to clean? 2. Dustpans. Both pups and older dogs seem to thing dust pans are chew toys. The obvious solution is to hang the thing up out of reach. But they're constantly in use. Does anyone else have this problem? Is there, say, something I can paint on the dustpan to make it unattractive? 3. Ballpoint pens. I think this is hopeless . . . even younger dogs seem to love chomping on them.

I'd say swallow the discomfort and talk to them. Potential conflict situations are not comfortable, but sometimes they are necessary. You might want to talk to the local Rangers or Council Officer first . . . to find out the proper channels for placing complaints about dog noise. In most places, the Rangers are happier about doing something if you have talked to the owners of the noisy dog first. In some places they will only act if multiple neighbours complain . . . in which case you should chat around and find out who else is being bothered and encourage them to complain, if they haven't already.

I don't understand why pedigree dog people are so meddlesome. This scene will sort itself out in time cause the flood of chocos brought on by inflated prices will end out depressing the price and the 'bad' breeders who are breeding for colour alone will cop in in the wallet. The people who have invested in quality chocos will still have quality dogs and will be much better placed to weather the storm. I don't worship the market mechanism. My masters thesis was a full blown attack on the assumption of consumer rationality . . .which is essential to the arguments that the market leads to ideal solutions. But in this case, I'm pretty confident that market mechanisms will check the choco fad and result in a pretty good, if not optimum, result. I prefer blacks. The great thing about Labrador colour genetics is that black is dominant, so whatever you have, you can always go back to all black in the next litter . . . all you need to do is find a quality dominant black dog.

Colour and taste are basically irrational. But ask anyone in fashion about the colour purple. Sometimes everybody wants it, sometimes no one will buy it. When it's in, you can up the price, but eventually you'll end up with overstock and have to sell at discount. so goes chocolate in Labs. Breeders in Australia have tended to discriminate against chocolate, or at least, not deliberately work on the colour. The public has taken a fancy to the colour. People looking for chocos in WA call breeder-to-breeder, driving everyone nuts cause most breeders don't have any chocos or get one or two a year. Really annoying situation. There isn't a decent choco stud dog in WA (hopefully that is about to change). As someone who has spent decades doing assessment work of various sorts, I have little respect for the show ring. Time consuming. Not transparent. Too political, too dependent on handling skills. Puts off newcomers. The most important thing, if you want to get a dog titled, is to show up at lots of show and know who will be showing in which class so as to place the dog where it will get a blue. I'd be happy to participate in a system where there is an objective scoring against a documented standard . . . so you get . . . say 85 out of 100 points for a good but not great dog . . . and you have a score to locate the faults. And all the gossip and back biting. Jeezus k'rist. Sounds like petty nobility of the 19th century trying to sort out what girl to sell off to what noble vs wealthy industrial family. Weak on substance. I'm about to aggravate the persistent puppy shortage -- most acute for chocos -- in WA by moving back to the USA, selling two brood bitches interstate and taking my old girl and two promising pups with me. . . all chocos. That will significantly reduce the number of pups available to the crowd wanting chocos in WA (when you count ads on DOL, please take the time to consider how many (ie, few) are listed in WA. You wouldn't believe how many calls I get for choco pups. . . .sometimes three or four calls a day when I have no pups advertised and none expected. It'll be great to be in a place where there's less of a premium for that colour and I can go back to black, which is which I prefer, without ending out with the occasional puppy that doesn't sell by eight weeks. The pressure from the constant stream of phone calls is enough to sway a decision when a girl comes on season. What do you do . . . look for the best boy you can find and pay for AI . . . and go choco. I am glad that several well credentialed choco boys have been imported into Oz and am happy to use them. Bottom line. Australian Lab breeders created an unbalanced situation by many decades of avoiding chocolate. No point winging about people breeding up choco's. Yes, there are some ugly chocolates coming out of the fad. But I run a boarding kennel . . . you can't tell me that there aren't some ugly yellows as well (ugly blacks seem less common, but maybe I'm prejudiced in favour of blacks). UK and North American breeders don't seem to have been as biased against chocos. The myth about chocolate-to-chocolate breedings being a problem has worsened things. (There is NO evidence to support this belief. If you breed a choco to a black with light eye colour you're very likely to get pups with light eye colour . .. nose and eye ring colour similar. A choco X choco mating where both parents have good eye/nose colour will produce good pigmentation.) I am grateful to people importing chocolates. Go ahead and carp about inflated puppy prices and complain about people avoiding the show ring. It will all come out in the wash. I'll be willing to bet that, given the boost that high prices have given chocolate lines in recent years, the number of chocolate dogs/bitches doing well in the show ring will increase over 2010 to 2020 and the price situation will normalise (ie, the colour premium will vanish). Chocos, in general, will do fine (compared to other colours) in health tests and they will be normal or better with respect to temperament. Note, a non-titled chocolate UK import took BIS in the 50th anniversary Lab specialty show in NZ last year [he may have been titled since]. You people chasing stats . . . have a go at counting the number of choco Ch's in Oz and how it has changed over the last few years. I think you'll find an interesting trend .. and it's just the beginning of an upswing.

That's typical technology. Quality doubles and size halves every year or two. You have to keep your nose to the wind.

Complicated. If your hubby is a vet, you have the Ceasar option at hand should the whelping go so bad as to put pups or bitch in danger. I've worked with a few UI bitches and have not found anything that helps -- both ended out desexed -- litters born by Ceasar. I'd say, be prepared for problem is the best advice. A Ceasar is a better option than dead pups or -- worse still -- loosing the bitch and the pups.

I'd buy a full sheet of waterproof ply and ask Bunnings to cut it into four pieces of equal height. You want something between, say, 8 and 12 mm thick so as to give somthing that will last but not be horribly heavy. Pine isn't as strong, weight for weight, as ply. If it's a one off or not to be used for litter after litter, I'd go for a sheet of melamite or some ply or fiberboard with a treated surface, which will give you one painted/smooth/cleanable surface but a basic fabric that won't hold up to ware for more than a few litters.

What? You're not up for an arguement based on facts and reason. So you use the cheap toss-off of saying this is rediculous. Be specific about what deserves ridicule.Please. No I think you do. Best to stick with the Labs , hey. This is getting ridiculous.

You miss the point. When breeders and the breed standard choose to represent a breed, any breed, in HA term, it's bad news. I would bet my net worth that most of the Filos in Brasil have never hurt anyone . . . just as most of the guard dogs worldwide have never been challenged and we don't know how much blood they would draw if put to the extreme. As for 'never owning one': I don't want a guard dog. There are situations in which guard dogs are appropriate, but they don't arise in my lifestyle. If Australia had as many problems with child kidnapping for ransoms as Brasil does, I'd say there would be a reason to import Filos. But that's not the case. Nor do I think the Filo would be effective for guarding livestock under Australian conditions. I think they would be used to increase the size and ferocity of pig dogs and pit fighting dogs. I'm not a gambler, but if I bet on dog fights, I'd put my bucks on the line for an APBT from fighting lines X Filo brasiliero with good display of HA/DA. I think both the fierce pig dog and the bigger-better pit fight are to be discouraged. Who cares if a few Filo's have been imported. They may have been rejects who display insufficient hostility to strangers to satisfy the breed standard, and may have been good contributions to the Australian scene. Or they may have been extreme guard dogs, whose genetic contribution may have been a problem. I think importing extreme guarding instincts is equally as dangerous as importing rabies. Btw, I'm still waiting on any evidence that the APBT is the most common breed in the USA. any takers on that challenge? I don't like blood sports, but happy to tough it out in pit fights of evidence and intellect. They are the guts of science . . . and how we get closer to truth that withstands the challenges of reason and evidence. and please explain, "bcz you just read as all numpty and no nouse." Numpty and nouse are not in my dictionary. If people proclaim their bloodlines as such, do you think we shouldn't take them at their word? Oh no thanks I don think you need any encouragement to add more breeds to your list of massive assumptions where there is little actual knowledge or understanding. Come on. fwiw did you know the Fila was in Australia? bet you didn't know that! and shock horror wtf noone was killed! maybe they were in WA ... wil find out ... geezuz you could have been living next to a HA killer and bloody hell you survived ... ;) until you are familiar with what consitutes are good guard dog and why and what that means perhaps lay off the Fila bcz you just read as all numpty and no nouse. cheers

Get real people. The big, international non-governmental organisations are both effective, and big on fund-raising. Smaller localised charities often get more bang for the buck but don't reach as far. Compare WWF or Greenpeace to a local organisation with a mission to conserve some species or habitat or protect water quality. You'll find that the international version spends much more on glossy flyers and paying people to talk to people in shopping malls, while the local org relies on committed volunteers and gets more bang for its buck... but has more trouble sustaining the bang and doesn't make it go as far. It's easy to bag the RSPCA. Personally, I don't like the R part. But we need organisations to protect animals from cruelty. The RSPCA is part of the fabric of a web of organisations that protect animals. Dogs are not the single focus of the RSPCA. Personally, I think their efforts to eliminate factory farming, particularly of pigs, are more important than anything they do with dogs and some of their dog stuff is misguided from my perspective. On thewhole, I think the RSPCA does more good than harm, and I'm happy to donate stuff to them for their thrift stores and support them in passive ways. Not my 'charity of choice'. I won't put them in my will. But I can't see the point of trying to kick them where it hurts . . . especially on DOL, a podium that means few people other than the pedigree dog choir is listening.

I agree. There was a fad for 'rare silver Labradors' and a few corrupt breeders pawning off Weimerarner cross pups with pedigrees, probably faked, of no particular distinction for mega bucks. That's also pretty standard in markets, hence the well known maxim 'buyer beware'. It's worth warning people off snake oil salesmen (or women). But $1800 vs $1200 with a long wait or $1200 with no particular distinction in the pedigree is bugger-all difference. If Guy isn't raising his prices when he has a long wait list he is either a man of principle or an idiot, depending on whether you accept market principles or laud people for putting principles before economics. I'm a breeder. I would gladly pay $600 more to avoid the ugly Laboratory Rat look of pink eye rings and nose that sometimes go with choco labs. Hell, I'd pay $2000 more for a fantastic pup. Beats the $8k plus and misery of quarantine for importing the equivalent. In some cases, Sandgrubber, cynicism is justified. Outside of your breed, blue Staffords are a case in point. Twice or even three times the price of another coloured SBT for a blue.. no imports involved either. People are paying hundreds or even thousands of dollars extra for a colour. Not a better quality dog, just colour. We all know there are breeders out there whose dogs never darken a show ring and who are making money hand over fist by riding the wave of popularity generated by people who often don't understand that by insisting on a particular colour, they are compromising on almost all other aspects of their pup. Some of those breeders are listed here.. no titles on the dogs, pups advertised with colour as the prominent feature and some damned ordinary dogs used to produce the pups. There will always be exceptional breeders who choose to focus on developing and improving a particular feature of a breed. The trick is trying to steer puppy buyers away from the profiteers and towards the pioneers. The penalty is, as you suggest, long waiting times. And some folk just won't wait.

Amusing. When someone says pedigree dogs cost too much everyone comes on saying that the initial purchase price of a dog is almost immaterial compared to the long term costs of good care. But when some breeder charges a few hundred dollars more than they do, or their friends do, everyone gets judgemental. Blackboy has been charging $1600 for chocos, pet or show, for some time. Long wait list. It's a market, guys. People who are investing to try and produce the best shouldn't get finger wags for charging what the market will bare. If the purchaser wants a cheaper choco pup, they will find one eventually . . . may mean a longer wait or a lesser quality. I'll bet that there will be a long wait list for chocos at Driftway, both show and pet quality. Economics 101 teaches that when stocks are low and delivery times are long, prices rise. One reason that we aren't producing enough pedigree dogs is that prices are often low and do now adequately reward the breeder for the expenses and time involved in raising a quality pup. If more people found they could go to, say, part time employment to spend more time with their dogs . .. and produce four or five litters a year out of well-cared for dogs . . . I think the supply problem for pedigree dogs would resolve itself.