sandgrubber

Must have been a mediocre breeder. I've had seven chocos. Not one of them had a pink nose at any time of year. Choco's . . . at least in WA . . . are relatively scarce, and you're going to have to know someone to get pick. Prices are inflated, and some people are breeding dogs that shouldn't be bred to make $$$. If you want a Lab, you'll get a better yellow or black for the same money.

8:8 isn't good, but it isn't a disaster. Personally, I wouldn't breed from an 8:8, but it wouldn't scare me in a pet. I would not expect to see an 8:8 get arthritic in old age (ie, not show clinical HD) . . . and one vet's 8:8 reading might have been a 4:4 from another vet or from the same vet with a better positioned set of X-rays. HD is only somewhat hereditary. I can't remember where I saw it, but I remember a statistical study that showed that the chance of getting 'excellent' hips from a dog and bitch who both have 'good' hips wasn't a whole lot higher than the chance of getting an 'excellent' from two 'excellents'. If you really like the dogs otherwise, I try to get a read on the grandsire/dam and any siblings. If you can chase down information on the oldies in the line, and they are moving freely at 10 . . . and if there are no siblings or previous pups from the same dam who have had really bad scores, I wouldn't worry. As for other things, TEMPEREMENT. Some Labs are mellow from an early age. Some are lunatics through to old age. Health testing is a good thing . . . but when measurements are taken on only two health parameters, they tend to be weighed too heavily into the equation.

1. Teach 'sit'. 2. Teach 'sit'. 3. Teach 'sit'. 4. Use 'sit' when the dog is greeting people. Make sure the sit and greet is appreciated.

You are more likely to need one 1. If the breed has a thin coat 2. If the room isn't well heated 3. If the nights are cold. I have Labbies. The dam generally hates heating in the whelping box, and except in quite cold weather, manages pretty well with no heating. I generally stick a heat lamp up in the center of the box, so the dam can go to the edge and avoid it, and the pups can seek heat in the middle if they get cold. Best to have something available. But watch what's going on, and make sure the dam is comfortable as well as the pups.

Many Lab people use the term "blow coat" . . . many labs have one or two periods a year when hair comes out in clumps and you're better off brushing it out than allowing it to fall. My choco girl goes bronze before she blows coat. For a humourous description see the Lab Brats blog at http://dogblog.8pawsup.com/2008/05/agh-blowing-coats.html Really? I've never heard of my friends Labs blowing coat They don't 'blow coat'. But they do shed a lot and mess up the floors a lot. I actually find it easier to manage the shedding of my northern breed who blows his coat compared to my sister's lab who sheds all year all over the floor. I agree labs shed heaps i am forever vacuuming

for authorative treatment of Lab coat controversy see http://www.labbies.com/silver.htm The final answer seems to be "maybe". There ARE white labradors, apparently with colour genetics similar to Westies . .. the kennel clubs class these as yellow. See http://www.labbies.com/genetics2.htm#White

I'm no expert, but I'd guess there are a lot of 'ifs' here. In many places, and ACT may be one of them, people have a right to go to your front door. If your dog bites the JW's missionary or the local poli doing door knocking, it's not going to be a good scene. In my experience, most people with "beware of dog" signs don't have dogs. So the warning has a may be crying wolf tone to it, and may not be taken seriously. If you can do it, I'd say, keep the dogs in the back yard and let people approach through a door that does not go through the back yard.

Please translate. I gather something happened in NSW?

The Brazilian standard for the Filo brasilioro calls for aggression toward strangers. In specialty shows it is acceptable for them to bite the judge. The breed was bred for catching cattle rustlers and runaway slaves. Breeders who take the temperament standard seriously will reject a pup if it isn't growling and showing fierceness to strangers at 12 weeks.

I have a German friend who did Schutz with boxers (in Germany) to Level 5. He now has Labradors in Australia. He says they'd be hopeless as guard dogs. As for blowing coat . .. Labbies do . . . and they make an awful mess.

See if you can find one of those doughnut-shaped puppy feeding bowls. You'll be amazed how much cleaner the puppies stay . . .and how cute they look making a big ring around the bowl. You might need two such bowls by the time they get to 8 weeks.

I'll bet there is serious, well funded research out there showing conclusively that you can put a higher price on a dogfood if you niche market to breeds commonly owned by richer people.

Any chance he's ingesting pyrethenoids (insecticide . . . present in some cheap flea/tick preventatives)? They do nasty things to the nervous system.

I think the wild carnivores around here put on weight when prey is abundant and loose weight in summer and autumn, when hunting is harder.

I think the wild animals around here put on weight when prey is abundant and loose weight in summer and autumn, when hunting is harder.

Rabies is a non-issue cause the dogs are vaccinated and the vaccine is very effective (hence vaccination campaigns in Bali). Most vineyards around here trap gophers, they are soooo abundant. I can't see that dogs hunting is any worse for the gophers than getting caught in a trap. There's no other wildlife for them to catch . . .well, maybe birds. The gopher population supports lots of natural predators . . . at least three species of hawks, two species of owls, bob-cats, mountain lions (probably eat more deer than gophers), foxes, and coyotes. The coyotes carry parvo and distemper but there has been no report of rabies here. We have deer fencing and no deer come on the property (and the dogs don't go off). Rabbits and squirrels are around, but I've seen neither on my property. And then there are skunks and raccoons . . . but I've seen neither and hope not to.

It might be worth posting these links in the General forum under the pinned Studies About Dogs. I'm not great at the science involved, but think it says something significant about: (a) mutation as affecting genetic problems (b) problems arising from multiple genes. I am always glad to see any progress on polygenetic factors . . . I'd guess that HD, OCD, various temperament disorders, and lots of other factors for which genetics seems to be important, but there is no simple/effective genetic test are polygenetic. Let's hope progress on this rare problem is a harbinger of progress on some of the nagging problems that plague dog breeders.

When I moved from WA to a vineyard in the coastal mountains of California, I brought two Labbie girls with me. It's rainy season, an both of 'em have taken to staying out in the rain, digging holes and catching gophers (abundant ground-dwelling rodents . . .rat-sized). Fine with me . . . gopher eat roots and that's bad for the vineyard . . . . (although it's not nice having a wet, muddy dog get in the bed, so I'm having to set some limits). Problem is, I can't tell how much nutrition my girls are getting from their carnivore habits, and they're putting on weight. The ground is saturated and I think nests are getting flooded all over the place, hence the girls have a lot to catch and eat. Some people say a 'prey diet' is healthy. The girls seem very happy hunting. But how do you set limits? I'm a softy and, being Labbies, they look at me with big pleading eyes if I cut back on their rations. Is it ok to let them get fat in a time of plenty and then take it off when the ground is dry and hard and their hunting is more work with less reward?

I've hosted two wanna-be dog trainers in a boarding kennel that wanted to offer training. It's been a sad experience. Both trainers were great with dogs . . . with limitations. Neither was good at communicating with owners, unfortunately, at least as important as dog handling skills. I am willing to believe there are some good and some great trainers/behaviourists. But survival requires a combination of dog skills, dealing with dog owner skills, and marketing/business skills that is pretty unusual. As a 'consumer', I don't think I'm impressed with NDTF certs . . . or German qualifications of trainer to Schutz. The sad fact about dog training is that it's mostly owner training, and requires considerable business skill. A few people manage to build up a following and keep busy classes, with private consults on the side. The majority of wanna-be's go nowhere cause their skills in dealing with dog owners and business aren't up to their skill in dealing with dogs. And then there's the secondary problem that dog needs are highly diverse, and human attitudes/temperament/judgement is important. The NDTF IV trainer I worked with, as a kennel helper, twice allowed contact between dogs that resulted in significant injury (a SWF was nearly killed and required thousands of dollars of rehab, and a pedigree Labrador was attacked by a mastiff-X and lost an ear). This got ugly, and I feel lucky to have had insurance and to have avoided lawsuits. Bottom line . . . dog trainer requires a skill set that is unusual, and only a few succeed in the area. Those who succeed may not be the best with dogs . . . but they do know how to relate to clients and the social/legal/financial system. Not an easy business.

Go ahead and flame me. But sometimes 'bias' has a rational cause. Breed-ism is a lot like racism. I don't consider myself racist, but, as an older white woman, there are some predominantly minority districts of some US cities that I wouldn't go into after dark, especially when things have been stirred up. My town is ~50% Latino. In general, I think the US Latino community has higher moral standards than the white community . . . but where the turmult of factors has resulted in gangs being formed . . . some places are dangerous for people like me (probably dangerous for Latinas too, but they are much better at reading the signs than I am). The gang types prefer certain types of dogs. I spent six years managing a kennel that liked to mix dogs, and have more experience with the DA than the HA dimension of breed-specific K9 behavior. By-in-large, with significant exceptions, we found gun dogs easy to mix with other dogs, and terriers, especially bull terriers and bull-terrier crosses (though some foxies or JRT's are nightmares), a source of concern . . . and tagged as 'don't mix'. Often, the owners were quick to say "Don't mix" or "Mix with caution and avoid some sort of dog (often avoid males with males). Some terriers are sweet-as, and can mix freely. Some are friendly, but have body language that other dogs find provocative (eg, the friendly SBT body slam) and inadvertently cause fights, some have the sort of temper that causes damage when someone or something (often another bull terrier cross) presses the wrong button. Eg, the kennel had a several incidents of bull terrier types who are from the same family and sharing a run getting into spats that required veterinary attention. We also had one incident of two entire male Weimies doing damage to eachother . . . so it's not unique to the bull terriers . . . but they seem to be relatively more frequent in crossing the DA/HA line. I know some goldies . . . some Labbies as well, have dangerous trigger settings. I had a goldie breeder next door . . . and her girls occasionally had fight-to-kill fights, generally resource guarding (strangely, the resource was sprayed water, which the mob loved . . . they got into vicious fights if the wrong dogs were out together when the sprinklers were turned on). But in my experience, these are a small minority associated with problem owners. Smoke often goes with fire.

Lovely story. Wish that every special needs pup that ends out homeless could do as well.

This is a BAD NEWS story. Read the ending: "Lucky and Sparkles have been renamed Teagan and Layla, and need a new home. "The new owner would ideally be at home often to give the girls the attention and love they need," Ms McGrath said. Anyone interested in adopting the pair can visit www.petrescue.com.au/view/99794." It seems likely that they will both be PTS soon.

Great post!!!

Agreed. And it's a big problem. If you don't love dogs, you shouldn't be getting a puppy, cute or not. Don't look at the puppy. Try to understand what you'll get when it grows up.

Hey, why does everything have to be a debate? Ok, lots of opinionated people, a controversial subject, off she goes. I would have liked to see more discussion of movement and rhythm as affecting communication with dogs . . . and I'm disappointed that several people jumped on the 'cruelty' bandwagon (in my book, the most serious dog cruelty I see, and I see it regularly, is putting an active, social animal in solitary confinement with little exercise, and then getting mad at the poor thing cause it goes nuts and starts destroying stuff). Also disappointed that those critical of CM didn't pick up on the hardest part of dog training . . . training the owners. From what I've watched of CM, the owners sit and watch in awe, then enjoy a half an hour of dealing with a dog that has been calmed and put in line by calm assertive treatment, delivered in a way that speaks to a dog's brain. But I doubt they have really learned CM's technique . . . which if Gladwell is correct in the 'dance' assertion, is going to be hard to duplicate. I've tried to work with two aspiring dog trainers in my kennel management days: one a CM devotee, one a new-school German with years of Schutz and an emphasis on positive reinforcement via play. Both had great dog handling skills. Both failed cause they couldn't transfer what they know to the dog owners. And I've seen a fair share of my kennel clients go out for training, show improvement for awhile, and then slip back into the 'same old used-to-be'. Dog training requires skill. Dog owner training . . . often requires someone who can talk the spots off a leopard. p.s. thinking back over my own contribution, and the typical Myth Busters crash scenes, I realise I missed a term in the physics argument. Yes, Pressure = force/area and area increases as a squared term . . . so a flat palm is not the same as a knuckle or toe. But it's equally important that force comes from change in kinetic energy, ie, a moving object crashing to a stop and transferring the energy in its motion. Kinetic energy increases as the square of velocity (ie speed) X mass (ie, weight). So, you can do a lot of damage from a fast kick developed from a full leg swing (long swing allows more gain in momentum). (In self defense class we were taught to move into a punch so the aggressor couldn't develop a full swing). And kicking a mobile bit, eg, a tail, doesn't transfer much momentum, so it does little. Jeez. May even be that kicking a small dog so that it flies across the room delivers a lot of fright, but not so much pain, while kicking a massive dog really hits home. Maybe that's why abused ankle biters don't give up. . . they've learned that getting the boot is aggressive, but not dangerous. All in all, I think it's been a good thread, and thanks to everybody for contributing.