sandgrubber

I didn't mean to advocate supplementing calcium, but pasta, lean mince and veggies in equal parts plus adult biscuits is not building up calcium reserves. I once had a nanny goat die of milk fever cause her diet was too low in calcium and have felt guilty about it for 40 years. 'Raw' alone doesn't do it. You need raw that contains bones or other good source of calcium. If the girl is going overboard stealing eggs, there may be a message. If there has been a history of low calcium and it is close to whelping, it's good to have some Troy/Sandoz or equivalent on hand. . . . but veterinarian advice on this is a good idea. I don't have THE answer, but there is a possible concern.

If these kind of tactics are acceptable perhpas its time some rescue orgs were raided and if we find one thats crook use it to push for laws for all rescue. Ive a couple of photos right now taken legitimately which should kick it off. But it's OK Steve, those doing the right thing, will have nothing to fear. Wrong! There are people out there who regard it as sinful for anyone to breed pups when there are so many pups in rescue. Many of this group are young, idealistic, and inclined to militant action. I think all breeders have reason to fear such people. They will work hard to get the ugliest pictures they can. If someone looking for dirt broke in and took photos the morning after a long, troublesome whelping, even with an excellent breeder, they'd find some unclean greenish placenta junk around the place and get some shots that would look like horrid care to anyone who has never bred dogs. The breeder who helped on the whelping probably hasn't slept for 24+ hours and may take a few hours to clean up . . . especially if they think another pup may be on its way. And when a large litter hits 8 weeks, they produce a lot of pooh . . . so it's not hard to find a disgusting scene or two if that's what you're looking for.

Evidence that distressed animals are more likely to bite . . . even if they wouldn't in normal circumstances. Seems obvious, but given all the hooplah about dog bites lately, it's good to have some evidence. Interesting that these bites were mostly bites to people the animal knew (at least for dogs and cats, probably not so for snakes). *Warner, G.S., 2010. Increased Incidence of Domestic Animal Bites following a Disaster Due to Natural Hazards. Prehospital and Disaster Medicine. Abstract Introduction: During deployment following Hurricane Ike in September 2008, bites from domestic animals were among the top three trauma com- plaints seen at the National Disaster Medical System (NDMS) Disaster Medical Assistance Team (DMAT) base of operations. Problem: Unlike previous reports of frightened, misplaced dogs and cats bit- ing strangers and rescue workers, there was an increase in bites associated with presumed non-rabid pets who were known to the bite victim. Methods: This was an observational sampling of all patients presenting for medical care during deployment to the AL-3 DMAT base of operations in Webster, Texas, following Hurricane Ike. Findings were compared with unof- ficial local norms and observations from the literature. Results: Of the people with animal bites presenting to the field hospital, dog bites accounted for 55%, cat bites, 40%, and snake bites, 5%. Most of the wounds required suturing and were not simple punctures. Most bites (70%) involved the hand(s). Some patients presented >24 hours after the bite, and already had developed cellulitis. One patient required transfer and inpatient admission for intravenous antibiotics and debridement of a hand injury with spread into the metacarpophalangeal space. Conclusions: Most of the bites were severe and occurred within the first 72 hours after the hurricane, and waned steadily over the following weeks to baseline levels. No animal bites caused by misplaced dogs and cats biting strangers were seen. There was an increase in bites associated with domesticat- ed pets known to the bite victim. The current NDMS cache is stocked ade- quately to care for most wounds caused by animal bites. However post-exposure rabies treatment is not part of the routine medications offered. For future dis- aster preparedness training, pet owners should be aware of the increased potential for dog and cat bites. Warner GS: Increased incidence of domestic animal bites following a disas- ter due to natural hazards. Prehosp Disaster Med 2009;25(2):188–190.

Well, huh? What are you saying? (not quite! no way! . . . or not-quite (adj) no-way (noun) . . . also: not-quite no-way what?) Wow, I'm as confused as you are! I don't even know what that was supposed to be, but I'm going with "Well, not quite, maybe". I have a very ugly but layperson-oriented website that kind of explains it here: http://www.dogoptimism.com/ Also have a Facebook page where I post all my favourite articles about detecting emotion in animals and that sort of thing:http://www.facebook....232233783467933 I think you meant to tell me there are objective, repeatable ways of characterising an emotional response . . . both for humans and other species of animal. p.s. my gut-based way of separating optimists from pessimists is based on Winnie the Pooh. . . I just ask: "Eeoyre or more like Roo"? I have an Eeyore mother and her Roo daughter.

Good breeders of popular breeds don't need to advertize. I always felt lucky that I was in Labs (in WA), cause there were always waiting lists. But I notice that breeders of English pointers, flatcoats, Afghans, and rough collies, to mention a few, have a hard time finding appropriate homes for their pups. The need to advertize proves nothing about the quality of the breeder.

I have just heard Peter Walsh say that power/authority has been granted to individual Councils to decide as to whether they want to register "these types" of dogs and if they don't they can de-register them (and therefore seize them). This was via an interview on the radio. Is this old or new news to anyone? How HORRIBLE! Put through a Law. Then say councils have permission to undermine the law by withdrawing the very flimsy protection it gives! Peter Walsh deserves public shaming! If the equivalent chain of events had taken place, say with respect to registration of some sort of vehicle everyone would be up in arms. Banned in two years unless you go on a special register, then banned in one year so hurry up and get on the special register, then a few days before the ban goes in effect . . . hey guys, even if you went on the special register, you're can still get de-registered and banned. That's NOT FAIR DINKUM!

Is she stealing eggs and eating the shell and all? I'd say the diet you describe is way low on calcium and she may be after eggs primarily for the Calcium in their shells. Yoghurt is good. You may want to talk to a vet about it and perhaps get some calcium suppleent. Calcium deficiency at whelping can cause 'milk fever' . . .which is quite serious. I agree with Sparky Tansy about the fat . . . dog milk is very very rich. If your bitch is overweight, cut down on carbs and feed less rather than reducing fat. You don't want 'good' quality dry food for a bitch in whelp. You want excellent food, and it should be either formulated for a pregnant / lactating bitch or puppy food to keep the fat and calclium high. My girls have never liked their whelping boxes . . . though once the pups are born they tolerate them.

Hard to do well. I live in the first county in California to implement a system where breeders need licensing, all dogs must be registered, and if you aren't licensed as a breeder, you are required to desex. Sounded like a good idea on paper. But living here, I find that the main effect is that no one registers their dogs . . . it's mountainous here, and if you don't live in town and have half decent fences, the effective law is do whatever you want, just don't irritate the neighbours. They do offer some heavily subsidized desexing services, and this does help keep down the number of unwanted pups. As for spey/neuter. . . . with some breeds, entire dogs and bitches are more likely to be broody than aggressive. Making everyone neuter because testosterone is a problem in some dogs doesn't seem efficient, especially when the supposed health benefits of neutering are questionable.

Sad. Why aren't these stories making the news? In my book, a dog killing a puppy in the puppy's own yard is almost as serious as killing a child. It certainly shows the same degree of owner irresponsibility, and could easily result in a child getting killed next time.

Well, huh? What are you saying? (not quite! no way! . . . or not-quite (adj) no-way (noun) . . . also: not-quite no-way what?) It would be great to see a copy of your dissertation proposal. Sounds interesting.

I kinda don't like people/groups using this forum to publish their own news releases. Could end out with a lot of commercial crapola being published that I don't want to read. Nuthin' personal.

Here's a link to the document Steve was talking about . . . posted by toy*dog on the parallel thread on puppy farms etc. (Posted 22 September 2011 - 08:13 AM) hey guys is this it? puppy farming the way forward

Interesting document . . . much better basis for a sane discussion that what we've been working with. Too bad there's no way to make it NEWS in a new thread and start a fresh round of discussion.

Sandgrubber the discussion papers was put out prior to the round table meeting which discussed the discussion paper and the definition was changed. The RSPCA and everyone of the groups who attended agreed on a definition and we all thought that was that and we were all working toward doing something about that. On the 22nd of August via email distributed to those who attended the round table meeting and other interested people including Oscars Law again RSPCA Australia clarified what definition we are using to define puppy farms. Quote Thanks for your further feedback. The RSPCA defines a Puppy farm as: A puppy farm (also known as a puppy factory or puppy mill) is defined as: an intensive dog breeding facility that is operated under inadequate conditions that fail to meet the dogs' behavioural, social and/or physiological needs. Hey Steve Thanks for the update. I like the definition as it's both terse and conceptually broad, but doesn't cut out people who raise puppies in the house, or in a barn, or don't meet some fastidious hygene standard. Interesting that it doesn't say anything about veterinary care, record keeping, or health testing. Can you please post some link to the full document produced by the round table . . . or re-post if you have already done so (and keep re-posting it each time you refer to it). Most of us don't read all posts, and forget much of what we read. )

to be biddable, ie, have a desire to please, a dog MUST be capable of something like guilt, ie, awareness that he/she has done something that will bring displeasure. Guilty looks are a different kettle of fish, cause they assume the human can read the dog's body language. Some of us aren't so good at this. We can't know whether the dog feels 'guilt' in a way equivalent to the way you or I feel guilt. But WTS, I'm not sure that the guilt feelings I get are the same as the guilt feelings you get. And I think it's established that some psychopaths feel no empathy and no guilt. basically, there is no way of knowing what another sentient being feels, within, or across as species boundary.

Great idea. I find lots of dog questions boil down to nothing, cause you can't get the facts. Eg, we get all upset about DD's, but I suspect there are a lot more plain old fashioned mutts . . . oops puppies from people who don't think of themselves as anything else. Putting pets on the National census would be great. One problem: How do you convince the politicians to make it happen?

Until Oscar's Law is defined and its practical implications clarified and discussed, I don't see how anyone can support it. On the other hand, the RSPCA has a lengthy discussion paper out on Puppy Farms, including case examples and better definitions. www.rspca.org.au/assets/.../RSPCAPuppyFarmDiscussionPaperJan2010.pdf It might be more fruitful to discuss this than voice distrust of the relatively rowdy Oscar's Law. Here's the RSPCA definition of 'puppy farm'. Would people be comfortable with this definition (emphasis on the bolded part)? What is a puppy farm? Puppy breeding establishments take many forms and can be seen to be on a continuum from extremely bad (puppy farms, exploitative hoarders) through to excellent (dog enthusiasts who put the animal’s health and welfare as the first priority). This paper focuses on the problems associated with the lower end of this continuum: puppy farms. Puppy farming is the indiscriminate breeding of dogs on a large scale for the purposes of sale. Puppy farms are essentially commercial operations with an emphasis on production and profit with little or no consideration given to the welfare of the animals1,2. Puppy farms are intensive systems with breeding animals and their puppies kept in facilities that fail to meet the animals’ psychological, behavioural, social or physiological needs. As a result many of these animals have a very poor quality of life. While most puppy farms lack any structured facility plan or design and provide husbandry on an ad hoc basis only, others are purpose-built and are specifically designed to house and breed large numbers of dogs for the purpose of sale. Both types of facilities can fail to meet the animals’ behavioural, psychological, social and physiological needs.

HOw awful. So sorry to hear of your loss. If you're up for spraying your yard, look into Spinosad type sprays used for horticulture. They are used in vineyards for managing various sucking pests, and are also an ingredient in some tick remedies. In vineyards, they are accepted by organic growers, and can be used right up to harvest -- no one has been able to find any harmful effects on mammals.

In doing so, please weigh opinion by the bias and qualifications of the source. Some topics, such as vaccination of children, draw a lot of extremists who are repeating a bunch of garbage, over and over. They continue to cite articles that have been shown to be fraudulent and have retracted by the journal that published them. It's sad that access to thoroughly researched papers is often expensive, and people whose opinion isn't worth a damn is all over the place.

If I were a vet, I'd only do this if there were a DNA paternity test that showed both sire and dam were breeds other than pit bull. The US company marketing breed identification DNA stuff for mutts says on their FAQ: http://www.wisdompanel.com/service/faq/#38 Does Wisdom Panel® Insights™ test for "Pit-bull?" The term "Pit-bull" does not refer to a single or recognized breed of dog, but rather to a genetically diverse group of breeds. Pit-bull type dogs have historically been bred by combining guarding type breeds with terriers for certain desired characteristics – and as such they may retain many genetic similarities to the likely progenitor breeds and other closely related breeds. Due to the genetic diversity of this group, we cannot build a DNA profile for the Pit-bull. If a Pit-bull type dog was tested, we might anticipate that Wisdom Panel Insights test detect and report moderate to Minor amounts of one or more distantly related breeds to those used to breed the dog, it is possible that one or more of the following breeds might be detected at moderate to Minor amounts: the American Staffordshire terrier, Boston terrier, Bull terrier, Staffordshire Bull terrier, Mastiff, Bullmastiff Boxer, Bulldog and various small terriers like the Parson Russell. These breeds would be detected because some markers in these breeds have genetic identity at a minority of the markers Wisdom Panel Insights test uses to the breeds in our database. Some local communities in the United States have put restrictions on Pit-bull ownership. Mars Veterinary™ encourages dog owners and care providers to be fully aware of their local laws, which vary across the country.

They were #1 in AKC registrations in 2010. (They had been #2, after the Labrador).

A kennel should not smell like urine or impart a urine smell. In the years I spent running a boarding kennel, the stink turned up occasionally from un-neutered males who marked beds, walls, and occasionally other dogs. It always instigated a cleaning frenzy. We put a coating on all (brick) walls and floors to make them impervious to liquids. All kennels should do this. If you don't, the stink can penetrate and it's hard to drive it out. I wouldn't be upset. Urine is pretty harmless. But in future, I'd subject the kennel to a whiff test before boarding.

I have Labs who are innocent of any field training. It amazes me how strong their native 'birdyness' is. If one finds a dead bird, they bring it to me, and make no attempt to eat it. I don't much appreciate these, and they get mouthed and dragged around until I trash them. If they catch a rabbit or rodent (I encourage hunting rodents and lagomorphs), it's gone in a few gulps. Take them into a feed store where they sell chooks, ducks or pigeons, and they go to full alert. I had one old girl flush a chook, and escapee from some neighbour's yard. She grabbed it across the back, thus preventing wings from flapping, and brought it to me. The Springer Spaniel I grew up with had a habit of bringing us live, unharmed chooks from the neighbour's yard. Do all gun dogs do this? Do, say, herding or hound dogs do the same?

I checked. There were ~20000 dogs included in the survey. All were dogs whose owners chose to purchase ($70) the Mars product that uses DNA to determine a mutt's breed ancestry. I'd guess this imparts some bias . . . certainly NOT a random sample.

Please direct me to the text of Oscar's Law. Maybe I'm paranoid, but it rubs me the wrong way to see people rallying around a 'law' that hasn't been written, acting like vigilantes, and doing little or nothing to work within the body of existing law to protect animal welfare. Eg, why don't they take first steps like seeing that NSW pet shops enforce the laws re. age of pups, space requirements for animals, training of staff, keeping of records, vaccinations, etc., etc. -- pet shops are public and can be inspected without trespassing. Why don't they support the duly constituted authorities in enforcing animal welfare laws that pertain to dog breeders and campaign for councils to do more on enforcement? Until they clearly define 'puppy factory', I think caution is required . . . no matter what is in their FAQ. Btw, the beagle-ish bitch with the huge dragging teats on the Oscar's Law website is also a cover girl for the Vic RSPCA. I've seen bitches go quite baggy on their first (large) litter and firm up after. I have Labs . . . so the legs are longer and they don't drag. Some girls have big boobs and produce lots of milk. This girl is older. I find it more distressing that her legs are short than that her teats are big. To the contrary, I think the use of this photo as evidence of abuse displays ignorance of dog breeding on the part of Vic RSPCA and the Oscars Law folks. If they'd shown the same girl curled up with 12 pups, she might have been a cover girl for the joys of motherhood. they also say this on the FAQ page: What is the difference between a registered breeder and a puppy factory (and how will I know)? A registered breeder is registered with the Australian National Kennel Council and must meet certain requirements. A breeder will usually specialise in one breed and is also likely to be involved in showing that breed. A puppy factory will not be registered with the ANKC. Many claim to be registered, but they are just a 'registered' business! The ANKC only registers 'pure breed' dog breeders. All designer dogs are cross breeds. A breeder will be happy for you to visit them to meet the parents and the pups at their own premises, in fact most will insist. Puppy factories will not. If puppy factories who meet the legal requirements of minimum standards of care will not let you see their breeding facilities - they know that you will be horrified. A breeder will know about their breed, they will be happy to answer your questions and are very likely to have plenty of their own. If you are suspicious, go home and do some research. ETA; there are quite a few reg breeders that quite happily follow oscars law and were even at the rally. just saying....