sandgrubber

Regarding the Amish puppy farm discussed in Nic's link June 11, 2010 4:35 PM New Pa. Law Putting Puppy Mills out of Business By CBSNews (AP) Daniel Peachey's breeding dogs used to stand on wire flooring all day, cooped up in cages that provided no regular access to the outdoors. No more. Peachey recently spent more than $20,000 on upgrades at his Stone Mountain Kennel, outside of State College, to meet stringent new health and safety standards that state officials say have gone a long way toward ending Pennsylvania's reputation as the puppy mill capital of the East. While breeders like Peachey have found themselves shelling out tens of thousands of dollars to comply with the strictest kennel law in the nation, scores of substandard commercial kennels have opted to close instead - freeing a minimum of 14,000 dogs from bleak surroundings where they typically received little attention or care. The state Bureau of Dog Law Enforcement is wagging its tail about the results, declaring Friday in its annual report to the Legislature that Pennsylvania has become a "model state" for its oversight of commercial breeders. "I think if people care about their dogs and want to remain in business, they are doing what's needed to comply with the law," Jessie Smith, the state's top dog-law enforcer, told The Associated Press this week during a tour of Peachey's kennel. Pennsylvania had long been known as a breeding ground for puppy mills when Gov. Ed Rendell signed off on an overhaul of the dog law in 2008. The legislation was a response to appalling conditions in many large commercial breeding kennels, where dogs spent most of their working lives inside cramped wire cages, stacked one atop the other, and got little grooming, veterinary care or exercise. Key provisions that went into effect in October required large-scale breeders to double cage sizes, eliminate wire flooring, and provide unfettered access to the outdoors. The new law also banned cage stacking, instituted twice-a-year vet checks, and mandated new ventilation and cleanliness standards. Many breeders have closed voluntarily rather than comply. The number of commercial kennels in Pennsylvania plummeted from 303 at the beginning of 2009 to 111 today - a reduction of almost two-thirds - although a few of them are expected to reopen after making renovations, while other kennels got rid of enough dogs so that they are no longer classified as commercial operations. Thousands of former breeding dogs have been relinquished to shelters and placed in homes as pets. Dogs have also been sold or transferred to other kennel owners in and out of state. "It's much more difficult now to run a puppy mill in Pennsylvania," said Sarah Speed, Pennsylvania state director of The Humane Society of the United States. "I think the puppy mill business in Pennsylvania is absolutely on its way out." Peachey, 43, an Amishman who lives with his wife and seven children on a three-acre spread in Belleville, said he thought long and hard about whether he wanted to remain in the business of breeding and selling Yorkshire and Boston terriers, Maltese, and "morkies" (a trendy Yorkie-Maltese mix). He had always run a clean kennel, meeting and sometimes exceeding existing standards and taking good care of his dogs, according to state dog warden Melissa Bair, who has inspected the facility for years. But even Peachey's operation required substantial upgrades to comply with the new regulations, including outdoor runs and new indoor enclosures. In the end, it was a matter of economics. Peachey, who had paid more than $50,000 for a new kennel building in 2003, thought it made more sense to spend another $20,000 to bring the kennel up to code than to abandon it and lose his original investment. "I really didn't think I had a choice," he said. There's an interesting review of US puppy mill laws at law.psu.edu/_file/aglaw/PA_Dog_Law_Noemi_Lopez.pdf The author is strongly anti-puppy mill, but her work is solidly researched and provides some interesting perspective.

I think that's a reference to the latest chocolate craze, which has produced a lot of badly bred dogs, but has also stimulated the import of some excellent chocolates and is gradually producing some lovely dogs. It also produces a lot of acrimony, because many breeders put a premium on price for chocolate dogs. Others come back with accusations of putting colour and $ above quality.. . which is sometimes true. The same thing happened with yellow Labs half a century ago (more?). Australian show circles have historically discriminated against chocolates and many breeders avoided them. The public has taken a liking to the colour. There has been a major increase in chocos taking titles in recent years . . . including BIS at the NZ Golden Jubilee specialty show. Give it another 20 years and chocolate in Australia will be just another colour, as it is in the US or UK. Many breeders will probably continue to go either the chocolate + black or the yellow + black route in effort to avoid the ugly lack of colouration you sometimes get by mixing choco and yellow. Note, if breeders were truly colour blind, the vast majority of Labradors would be black. Black is genetically dominant and there were far more blacks than yellows or chocos when the stud books closed. The fact that there are at least as many yellows as blacks is strong evidence that popular colour preferences have affected breeders colour decision for many generations. The next controversy will probably be about 'white' Labradors. There are a number of US breeders producing whites that appear to get their colour from the same colour chromosomes that produce white in the Westie. No tint of yellow, very black noses. These dogs are accepted in the ring as 'yellow' and some people seek them out.

I wonder why we don't have a vaccination against snake bites? Apparently they do in the US against Rattle Snakes - or is someone just having a lend of me We've had three dogs bitten in the past 18 months, sadly losing one of them who was only 15 months old. We have done absolutely everything possible to eradicate the snakes' need to come into our dog yards and we are stumped as to what to do next. My lovely neighbour on the adjoining property just came and told me that he saw a brown go across our driveway this morning and into the paddock towards the dog shed/yards. I'm on tender hooks already and it's not even summer time! Yup. There's a rattlesnake vaccine http://rattlesnakevaccinefordogs.com/ But rattlesnakes aren't THAT poisonous. (Remember the interesting Christian groups that use them in religious rites, often get bitten, but rarely die. I don't think faith would do as well protecting people from tiger snakes). They've long known that dogs that survive the first bite develop a degree of immunity by developing antibodies. The vaccine stimulates an immune response. It isn't 100% effective, but generally leaves dogs better prepared to overcome the toxin. I think most Australian poisonous snakes are too toxic for this strategy to work well.

Found it hard to reply. I basically don't care about colour, but in Labs the bb/ee cannot be shown. So, as a small breeder with a choco bitch, I would not get a yellow dog. There are so many dogs to choose from, it's good, in some ways, to use colour to narrow the field.

I try to invest no more in the answer than the sender invested in the question. I'd reply to this one with something like "call for more info" or "not unless you tell me more about yourself and what you want in a dog".

I didn't mean to advocate supplementing calcium, but pasta, lean mince and veggies in equal parts plus adult biscuits is not building up calcium reserves. I once had a nanny goat die of milk fever cause her diet was too low in calcium and have felt guilty about it for 40 years. 'Raw' alone doesn't do it. You need raw that contains bones or other good source of calcium. If the girl is going overboard stealing eggs, there may be a message. If there has been a history of low calcium and it is close to whelping, it's good to have some Troy/Sandoz or equivalent on hand. . . . but veterinarian advice on this is a good idea. I don't have THE answer, but there is a possible concern.

If these kind of tactics are acceptable perhpas its time some rescue orgs were raided and if we find one thats crook use it to push for laws for all rescue. Ive a couple of photos right now taken legitimately which should kick it off. But it's OK Steve, those doing the right thing, will have nothing to fear. Wrong! There are people out there who regard it as sinful for anyone to breed pups when there are so many pups in rescue. Many of this group are young, idealistic, and inclined to militant action. I think all breeders have reason to fear such people. They will work hard to get the ugliest pictures they can. If someone looking for dirt broke in and took photos the morning after a long, troublesome whelping, even with an excellent breeder, they'd find some unclean greenish placenta junk around the place and get some shots that would look like horrid care to anyone who has never bred dogs. The breeder who helped on the whelping probably hasn't slept for 24+ hours and may take a few hours to clean up . . . especially if they think another pup may be on its way. And when a large litter hits 8 weeks, they produce a lot of pooh . . . so it's not hard to find a disgusting scene or two if that's what you're looking for.

Evidence that distressed animals are more likely to bite . . . even if they wouldn't in normal circumstances. Seems obvious, but given all the hooplah about dog bites lately, it's good to have some evidence. Interesting that these bites were mostly bites to people the animal knew (at least for dogs and cats, probably not so for snakes). *Warner, G.S., 2010. Increased Incidence of Domestic Animal Bites following a Disaster Due to Natural Hazards. Prehospital and Disaster Medicine. Abstract Introduction: During deployment following Hurricane Ike in September 2008, bites from domestic animals were among the top three trauma com- plaints seen at the National Disaster Medical System (NDMS) Disaster Medical Assistance Team (DMAT) base of operations. Problem: Unlike previous reports of frightened, misplaced dogs and cats bit- ing strangers and rescue workers, there was an increase in bites associated with presumed non-rabid pets who were known to the bite victim. Methods: This was an observational sampling of all patients presenting for medical care during deployment to the AL-3 DMAT base of operations in Webster, Texas, following Hurricane Ike. Findings were compared with unof- ficial local norms and observations from the literature. Results: Of the people with animal bites presenting to the field hospital, dog bites accounted for 55%, cat bites, 40%, and snake bites, 5%. Most of the wounds required suturing and were not simple punctures. Most bites (70%) involved the hand(s). Some patients presented >24 hours after the bite, and already had developed cellulitis. One patient required transfer and inpatient admission for intravenous antibiotics and debridement of a hand injury with spread into the metacarpophalangeal space. Conclusions: Most of the bites were severe and occurred within the first 72 hours after the hurricane, and waned steadily over the following weeks to baseline levels. No animal bites caused by misplaced dogs and cats biting strangers were seen. There was an increase in bites associated with domesticat- ed pets known to the bite victim. The current NDMS cache is stocked ade- quately to care for most wounds caused by animal bites. However post-exposure rabies treatment is not part of the routine medications offered. For future dis- aster preparedness training, pet owners should be aware of the increased potential for dog and cat bites. Warner GS: Increased incidence of domestic animal bites following a disas- ter due to natural hazards. Prehosp Disaster Med 2009;25(2):188–190.

Well, huh? What are you saying? (not quite! no way! . . . or not-quite (adj) no-way (noun) . . . also: not-quite no-way what?) Wow, I'm as confused as you are! I don't even know what that was supposed to be, but I'm going with "Well, not quite, maybe". I have a very ugly but layperson-oriented website that kind of explains it here: http://www.dogoptimism.com/ Also have a Facebook page where I post all my favourite articles about detecting emotion in animals and that sort of thing:http://www.facebook....232233783467933 I think you meant to tell me there are objective, repeatable ways of characterising an emotional response . . . both for humans and other species of animal. p.s. my gut-based way of separating optimists from pessimists is based on Winnie the Pooh. . . I just ask: "Eeoyre or more like Roo"? I have an Eeyore mother and her Roo daughter.

Good breeders of popular breeds don't need to advertize. I always felt lucky that I was in Labs (in WA), cause there were always waiting lists. But I notice that breeders of English pointers, flatcoats, Afghans, and rough collies, to mention a few, have a hard time finding appropriate homes for their pups. The need to advertize proves nothing about the quality of the breeder.

I have just heard Peter Walsh say that power/authority has been granted to individual Councils to decide as to whether they want to register "these types" of dogs and if they don't they can de-register them (and therefore seize them). This was via an interview on the radio. Is this old or new news to anyone? How HORRIBLE! Put through a Law. Then say councils have permission to undermine the law by withdrawing the very flimsy protection it gives! Peter Walsh deserves public shaming! If the equivalent chain of events had taken place, say with respect to registration of some sort of vehicle everyone would be up in arms. Banned in two years unless you go on a special register, then banned in one year so hurry up and get on the special register, then a few days before the ban goes in effect . . . hey guys, even if you went on the special register, you're can still get de-registered and banned. That's NOT FAIR DINKUM!

Is she stealing eggs and eating the shell and all? I'd say the diet you describe is way low on calcium and she may be after eggs primarily for the Calcium in their shells. Yoghurt is good. You may want to talk to a vet about it and perhaps get some calcium suppleent. Calcium deficiency at whelping can cause 'milk fever' . . .which is quite serious. I agree with Sparky Tansy about the fat . . . dog milk is very very rich. If your bitch is overweight, cut down on carbs and feed less rather than reducing fat. You don't want 'good' quality dry food for a bitch in whelp. You want excellent food, and it should be either formulated for a pregnant / lactating bitch or puppy food to keep the fat and calclium high. My girls have never liked their whelping boxes . . . though once the pups are born they tolerate them.

Hard to do well. I live in the first county in California to implement a system where breeders need licensing, all dogs must be registered, and if you aren't licensed as a breeder, you are required to desex. Sounded like a good idea on paper. But living here, I find that the main effect is that no one registers their dogs . . . it's mountainous here, and if you don't live in town and have half decent fences, the effective law is do whatever you want, just don't irritate the neighbours. They do offer some heavily subsidized desexing services, and this does help keep down the number of unwanted pups. As for spey/neuter. . . . with some breeds, entire dogs and bitches are more likely to be broody than aggressive. Making everyone neuter because testosterone is a problem in some dogs doesn't seem efficient, especially when the supposed health benefits of neutering are questionable.

Sad. Why aren't these stories making the news? In my book, a dog killing a puppy in the puppy's own yard is almost as serious as killing a child. It certainly shows the same degree of owner irresponsibility, and could easily result in a child getting killed next time.

Well, huh? What are you saying? (not quite! no way! . . . or not-quite (adj) no-way (noun) . . . also: not-quite no-way what?) It would be great to see a copy of your dissertation proposal. Sounds interesting.

I kinda don't like people/groups using this forum to publish their own news releases. Could end out with a lot of commercial crapola being published that I don't want to read. Nuthin' personal.

Here's a link to the document Steve was talking about . . . posted by toy*dog on the parallel thread on puppy farms etc. (Posted 22 September 2011 - 08:13 AM) hey guys is this it? puppy farming the way forward

Interesting document . . . much better basis for a sane discussion that what we've been working with. Too bad there's no way to make it NEWS in a new thread and start a fresh round of discussion.

Sandgrubber the discussion papers was put out prior to the round table meeting which discussed the discussion paper and the definition was changed. The RSPCA and everyone of the groups who attended agreed on a definition and we all thought that was that and we were all working toward doing something about that. On the 22nd of August via email distributed to those who attended the round table meeting and other interested people including Oscars Law again RSPCA Australia clarified what definition we are using to define puppy farms. Quote Thanks for your further feedback. The RSPCA defines a Puppy farm as: A puppy farm (also known as a puppy factory or puppy mill) is defined as: an intensive dog breeding facility that is operated under inadequate conditions that fail to meet the dogs' behavioural, social and/or physiological needs. Hey Steve Thanks for the update. I like the definition as it's both terse and conceptually broad, but doesn't cut out people who raise puppies in the house, or in a barn, or don't meet some fastidious hygene standard. Interesting that it doesn't say anything about veterinary care, record keeping, or health testing. Can you please post some link to the full document produced by the round table . . . or re-post if you have already done so (and keep re-posting it each time you refer to it). Most of us don't read all posts, and forget much of what we read. )

to be biddable, ie, have a desire to please, a dog MUST be capable of something like guilt, ie, awareness that he/she has done something that will bring displeasure. Guilty looks are a different kettle of fish, cause they assume the human can read the dog's body language. Some of us aren't so good at this. We can't know whether the dog feels 'guilt' in a way equivalent to the way you or I feel guilt. But WTS, I'm not sure that the guilt feelings I get are the same as the guilt feelings you get. And I think it's established that some psychopaths feel no empathy and no guilt. basically, there is no way of knowing what another sentient being feels, within, or across as species boundary.

Great idea. I find lots of dog questions boil down to nothing, cause you can't get the facts. Eg, we get all upset about DD's, but I suspect there are a lot more plain old fashioned mutts . . . oops puppies from people who don't think of themselves as anything else. Putting pets on the National census would be great. One problem: How do you convince the politicians to make it happen?

Until Oscar's Law is defined and its practical implications clarified and discussed, I don't see how anyone can support it. On the other hand, the RSPCA has a lengthy discussion paper out on Puppy Farms, including case examples and better definitions. www.rspca.org.au/assets/.../RSPCAPuppyFarmDiscussionPaperJan2010.pdf It might be more fruitful to discuss this than voice distrust of the relatively rowdy Oscar's Law. Here's the RSPCA definition of 'puppy farm'. Would people be comfortable with this definition (emphasis on the bolded part)? What is a puppy farm? Puppy breeding establishments take many forms and can be seen to be on a continuum from extremely bad (puppy farms, exploitative hoarders) through to excellent (dog enthusiasts who put the animal’s health and welfare as the first priority). This paper focuses on the problems associated with the lower end of this continuum: puppy farms. Puppy farming is the indiscriminate breeding of dogs on a large scale for the purposes of sale. Puppy farms are essentially commercial operations with an emphasis on production and profit with little or no consideration given to the welfare of the animals1,2. Puppy farms are intensive systems with breeding animals and their puppies kept in facilities that fail to meet the animals’ psychological, behavioural, social or physiological needs. As a result many of these animals have a very poor quality of life. While most puppy farms lack any structured facility plan or design and provide husbandry on an ad hoc basis only, others are purpose-built and are specifically designed to house and breed large numbers of dogs for the purpose of sale. Both types of facilities can fail to meet the animals’ behavioural, psychological, social and physiological needs.

HOw awful. So sorry to hear of your loss. If you're up for spraying your yard, look into Spinosad type sprays used for horticulture. They are used in vineyards for managing various sucking pests, and are also an ingredient in some tick remedies. In vineyards, they are accepted by organic growers, and can be used right up to harvest -- no one has been able to find any harmful effects on mammals.

In doing so, please weigh opinion by the bias and qualifications of the source. Some topics, such as vaccination of children, draw a lot of extremists who are repeating a bunch of garbage, over and over. They continue to cite articles that have been shown to be fraudulent and have retracted by the journal that published them. It's sad that access to thoroughly researched papers is often expensive, and people whose opinion isn't worth a damn is all over the place.

If I were a vet, I'd only do this if there were a DNA paternity test that showed both sire and dam were breeds other than pit bull. The US company marketing breed identification DNA stuff for mutts says on their FAQ: http://www.wisdompanel.com/service/faq/#38 Does Wisdom Panel® Insights™ test for "Pit-bull?" The term "Pit-bull" does not refer to a single or recognized breed of dog, but rather to a genetically diverse group of breeds. Pit-bull type dogs have historically been bred by combining guarding type breeds with terriers for certain desired characteristics – and as such they may retain many genetic similarities to the likely progenitor breeds and other closely related breeds. Due to the genetic diversity of this group, we cannot build a DNA profile for the Pit-bull. If a Pit-bull type dog was tested, we might anticipate that Wisdom Panel Insights test detect and report moderate to Minor amounts of one or more distantly related breeds to those used to breed the dog, it is possible that one or more of the following breeds might be detected at moderate to Minor amounts: the American Staffordshire terrier, Boston terrier, Bull terrier, Staffordshire Bull terrier, Mastiff, Bullmastiff Boxer, Bulldog and various small terriers like the Parson Russell. These breeds would be detected because some markers in these breeds have genetic identity at a minority of the markers Wisdom Panel Insights test uses to the breeds in our database. Some local communities in the United States have put restrictions on Pit-bull ownership. Mars Veterinary™ encourages dog owners and care providers to be fully aware of their local laws, which vary across the country.