sandgrubber

Talking with the practice owner is a good idea. I would be thinking lawsuit if this happened to me. If anyone should be paying for a refund, it's the vet practice. PTS'ing on the basis of a poor quality Xray is malpractice of the worst sort.

Time will tell. Meanwhile, my heart goes out to those who have to worry about whether their much loved family members will be executed.

With Labbies, being neutered or entire doesn't make a big difference, apart from the obvious (coming into season . .. having balls, etc). Entire boys and girls are more reactive when a girl comes into season. But on the whole, the differences between individual dogs' temperaments are much greater than the differences of before/after spey/neuter. Lots of people believe that it's harder to keep a spayed female slim, but in my experience, the task is equally difficult for an entire female. I think there are misconceptions because people confuse the effects of maturation (younger dogs and bitches are more likely to be entire) with those of desexing.

Good on the Veterinary Infomation Network for speaking out. Are they really going door to door?

Fingers crossed that they allow home detention. It's going to get ungodly expensive if the powers that be decide they need to provide secure facilities and cases drag on. Has anyone written to, or called, DPI or the various Ministers to get clarification on this?

Snakes are sluggish when cold (say <20C), and may hide out (or seek wet places) when it's very hot (say > 35C, but it varies). I don't think they care a lot about time of day. Lots of little guys at egg hatching time, usually spring. Little guys may be more inclined to bite, but don't have as much venom.

Good luck! When I was a kid, one of our dogs killed a calf and was given away to a family that lived ~200 miles away. He escaped and made it home in about two weeks. A dog with a will can make it home if people don't interfere. A stolen dog is not likely to reappear. Labs are almost all friendly, and if they wander, have a very high chance of being taken in by someone and reported to vets, the local shelter, or anyone else the well meaning person can think of to report him/her to. If she it pregnant, see your vet. They have 'morning after' treatments for dogs that work up until . . . I think it was . . . day 43 of the pregnancy.

I couldn't agree more. These stupid, stupid laws will allow the survival of X-breeds, such as bull breed x mastiff hybrids bred for 'big game' and 'protection', while pts-ing the unfortunate sweet tempered dog, adopted from a shelter, who happens, through some accident of his mutt pedigree and a local ACO's harsh judgement, seems to qualify as a restricted breed by the DPI 'standard'. APPEARANCE DOES NOT PREDICT BEHAVIOUR. Full stop. Internationally, you'll find breeders who are working to produce the biggest, meanest brute dog you can imagine. They take some pit bull with fighting credentials, some mastiff, some this and some that, and test them in a particularly aggressive form of schutz training . . . or set them on wild boars in some ugly blood sport. I have no doubt, the equivalent exists in Australia, perhaps as some segment of the 'pig dog' community (pig hunting is important in controlling feral pigs, and dogs have a role to play, but some use it as cover for blood sport). If the law weren't an ass, it would target the macho-dog breeders and their clients, rather than focus on the unfortunates whose pets happen to have the wrong look. As it stands, we still don't know if the dog who killed Ayen Chol would have been banned under the Vic dog standard.

That's probably because people don't know where it came from. The puppy farm, where Krudd got his dog from, also sell....Shitese! :rofl: Now that is sad. Presumably a Shi Tzu x Maltese? Grow up! making fun of names is appropriate to 10 yr olds, not adults. Please include some substance if you have a beef with someone's position. Who gives a hoot if Kevin Rudd bought a GR from a kennel that also sells some other breed or cross breed. If I put on my economic justice hat, I could probably knock you pretty bad for something . . . buying gasoline from a nasty petroleum producer, buying wood from a company that buys unsustainably produced timber, buying coffee from some source that screws the primary producers, blood diamond in your engagement ring? . . . etc., etc., etc.. I hesitate to say this on a purebreed forum, but my experience in running a boarding kennel is that the Shi Tzu x Maltese is a particularly successful F1 hybrid. They tend to be healthy and be a bit more moderate in temperament than either of the parent breeds. I don't advocate cross breeding. But I do object to pure breed enthusiasts making fools of themselves by making fun of things that the broader public doesn't see as a problem. If you're going to criticize, please do so responsibly, with substance. Pre-adolescent humour doesn't help a policy debate. (I'm considering taking on another personna .. . 'wet blanket' . . . a wet blanket is what some of these little flare ups call for).

I've been reading the comments on these stories, trying to take the perspective of Joe Public, who has no particular axe to grind in the dog world. I'd encourage others to play this game before mouthing off. The dog community on display in these debates looks petty, fractious, and sour.

Suggestion If you want good attendance, make sure to include date and time in all posts relating to an event. I'm confused at this point about whether this event is in Sydney, Melbourne, both, or elsewhere. Not that I'm going to fly out from the US to attend in any case. But my guess is, others are as confused as I.

Links to a set of articles written by the breeder who introduced the bob-tail gene into UK boxers. Here's an extract from the 'reflections on past progress' article of 7/7/2000 REFLECTIONS ON PAST PROGRESS The study was conceived about 10 years ago. In part it was started as an academic exercise to see how feasible it might be to transfer a gene from one breed to another. But, given the probability that docking would eventually be banned in the UK, as was already happening in other countries, the bob-tail gene was specifically selected because of its potential practical application. The "recipient" breed was my own breed, the Boxer. The bob-tail "donor" was the Pembroke Welsh Corgi. I have often been asked over the years, "Why use a Corgi, which is such a different breed?" In truth I had never thought or worried about this. In the series of backcrosses planned, it should not matter what I started with. Unwanted characteristics of whatever nature would all be diluted out, generation by generation. Of more practical significance was the fact that Peggy Gamble of Blands Corgi fame and the late Patsy Hewan (Stormerbanks Corgis) had earlier asked me to investigate the inheritance of the bob-tail condition in the breed. This proved to be that of a single dominant gene, a finding that potentially made transfer into another breed relatively simple. Beyond this, it was fortuitous that the two main characteristics of the Corgi that I did not want, the longer coat and the short legs, were also inherited as dominants relative to the Boxer very short coat and long legs. This meant that once avoided in any generation, they would be gone forever. Nevertheless, quite apart from these two gene s, I was hugely surprised at just how easy it was to get back to Boxer appearance by repeated crossing to Boxer after the initial Corgi cross. BOBTAIL BOXER ARTICLES - Published in Dog World Magazine (UK) Genetics Can be Fun ....Aug 2, 1996 Genetics Can be Fun (cont.) ....Aug 9, 1996 Genetics Can be Fun (cont.) ....Sept 13 1996 Genetics Can be Fun - Update....Aug 28 1998 Reflections on Past Progress....June 30 2000 Reflections on Past Progress (cont.)....July 7 2000 Postscript....May 4 2001See also .....Bobtail Boxers (plus Questions & Answers). Reposted from the main body of the General section.

However, as noted in the Vic Daily Hansard of 30 August, which billeted this legislative disaster, there are questions about whether it is lawful under section 28 of the Vic Charter of Human Rights and Responsibilities Act 2006 (charter act)

On the DNA question . . . Here's from the company that does breed identification tests (I've posted this before, but I can't remember where, so here it goes again). Mars Veterinary kindly sent the following response to questions re their "Wisdom Panel" and it's ability to identify the American Pit Bull Terrier using DNA Profiling: "Thank you for contacting Mars Veterinary. The term “Pitbull” does not refer to a single or recognized breed of dog, but rather to a genetically diverse group of breeds. Pit bull type dogs have historically been bred by combining guarding type breeds with terriers for certain desired characteristics – and as such they may retain many genetic similarities to the likely progenitor breeds and other closely related breeds. If a pit bull type dog were tested, we might anticipate that the Wisdom Panel test might detect and report moderate to trace amounts of one or more distantly related breeds to those used to breed the dog, it is possible that one or more of the following breeds might be detected at moderate to trace amounts: the American Staffordshire terrier, Boston terrier, Bull terrier, Staffordshire Bull terrier, Mastiff, Bullmastiff Boxer, Bulldog and various small terriers like the Parson Russell. These breeds would be detected because some markers in these breeds have genetic identity at a minority of the markers the Wisdom Panel test uses to the breeds in our database. Mars Veterinary’s analysis of the many Pitbull type breeds, which are known to be closely related, indicates that this diverse group of dogs could be one or a mixture of American Staffordshire Terrier, Staffordshire Bull terrier, Boston Terrier and some Bulldog. Due to the genetic diversity of this group, we cannot build a DNA profile for the Pitbull. Any Pitbull type breed tested using Wisdom Panel™ MX Mixed Breed Analysis is likely to reveal a combination of several breeds. For example, a Pitbull type breed might show up as 25% Boston Terrier, 25% American Staffordshire Terrier and 50% unknown. Of course, if the parents are registered, you could do paternity tests.

The processes leave a lot to local level animal control officers, and aren't reliable. Once a dog is pts, appeal is a lost cause. From a legal perspective, a staffy X (or boxer x Labrador, or other dog that looks something like an APBT) is a 'chattel' with value something like that of a second hand TV. Destroying it is nothing. No value placed on sentience; no value on the heartache to people whose family members are executed. Guess I sound like an animal libber . . . but where the hell are the animal rights people on this one. If animals have rights, certainly this is an affront of the worst kind . . . summary execution based on appearance alone. Taking away of pets acquired from rescues, with no warning at the time of adoption that the dog was to be condemned either to a restricted life, or death for non-registration. I am horrified and astounded that people aren't up in arms about this stupid, stupid law and how it is being implemented. . . . that there's more outrage about the PM being given a DD pup as a b'day present.

I meant to post these in the pinned 'studies about dogs' part of the General but pushed the wrong button. I think they're classics. Does anyone object to re-posting the links in 'Studies about Dogs' to make it easier for people to find them years hence?

Ah, if life were only so simple!

Good thought, but a couple problems. 1) It would be easy to counterfeit, so the authorities probably wouldn't accept the system. 2) what happens to black dogs? Maybe a second microchip?

I think the public's reaction to all this going to be 'how cute'. The pedigree dog community's negative reaction will simply reinforce the notion that we're a bunch of snobs.

Price increase? How about an export promotion award! With the Ozzie dollar so high, there aren't a lot of profitable exports these days.

Most of the policies I've looked at have a limit ~ $3000. If you do get insurance, read the fine print.

There is nothing wrong with having a preference for a particular shade of colour if all boxes are ticked. My dark liver/chocolate boy is an excellent working dog and a very sound, typical Lab as well, his colour is the icing on the cake for me. Nothing wrong with an OWNER preference. If I like redfox yellows, fine and dandy. But if a judge overlooks chocos cause they are a bit bleached . . . well . . . no need to go into it . . . I don't have a high opinion of the show ring as a way to judge quality. Just one more thing to make me cynical. Chocos do bleach . . . yellows do too . . . but no one cares if a yellow goes lighter. It's sick to have people keeping their dogs out of the sun to avoid a natural process. Fine if it's icing on the cake for you. It should NOT be icing on the cake in the show ring, cause the icing is very often the deciding feature.

I agree with suziwong66. Unless your are someone who has a hard time saving but is good at paying bills, you do better to save the money for a bad day than to pay petcare insurance. Also note that the cheaper programs tend to include all the regular stuff. Essentially it's gambling. If you think your pets are healthier than average . . . and people who do proper health checks etc. and follow good diets/exercise regimes/training routines will, on the whole, have dogs who are healthier than average . . . you will save money by self insuring.

I came across a set of articles written by the breeder who introduced the bob-tail gene into UK boxers. It seems worth providing links to these as they are informative and a good contribution to the 'purity' debate. Here's an extract from the 'reflections on past progress article of 7/7/2000 REFLECTIONS ON PAST PROGRESS The study was conceived about 10 years ago. In part it was started as an academic exercise to see how feasible it might be to transfer a gene from one breed to another. But, given the probability that docking would eventually be banned in the UK, as was already happening in other countries, the bob-tail gene was specifically selected because of its potential practical application. The "recipient" breed was my own breed, the Boxer. The bob-tail "donor" was the Pembroke Welsh Corgi. I have often been asked over the years, "Why use a Corgi, which is such a different breed?" In truth I had never thought or worried about this. In the series of backcrosses planned, it should not matter what I started with. Unwanted characteristics of whatever nature would all be diluted out, generation by generation. Of more practical significance was the fact that Peggy Gamble of Blands Corgi fame and the late Patsy Hewan (Stormerbanks Corgis) had earlier asked me to investigate the inheritance of the bob-tail condition in the breed. This proved to be that of a single dominant gene, a finding that potentially made transfer into another breed relatively simple. Beyond this, it was fortuitous that the two main characteristics of the Corgi that I did not want, the longer coat and the short legs, were also inherited as dominants relative to the Boxer very short coat and long legs. This meant that once avoided in any generation, they would be gone forever. Nevertheless, quite apart from these two gene s, I was hugely surprised at just how easy it was to get back to Boxer appearance by repeated crossing to Boxer after the initial Corgi cross. BOBTAIL BOXER ARTICLES - Published in Dog World Magazine (UK) Genetics Can be Fun ....Aug 2, 1996 Genetics Can be Fun (cont.) ....Aug 9, 1996 Genetics Can be Fun (cont.) ....Sept 13 1996 Genetics Can be Fun - Update....Aug 28 1998 Reflections on Past Progress....June 30 2000 Reflections on Past Progress (cont.)....July 7 2000 Postscript....May 4 2001See also .....Bobtail Boxers (plus Questions & Answers).

With chocolate/liver Labs, I think far far too much attention goes to the coat colour. I know show people who keep their choco's under shadecloth to avoid sunbleaching. Come on! The Lab should be a working dog. A judge who obviously favoured dark or light yellows would get jumped on. But for some reason, it's considered ok to favour a dark, rich colour. I can see penalizing the pink nose or eye-lining. These are faults in the standard. But going for one shade of an allowed coat colour is wrong. Yes, there are some sour grapes here. The vet called my very sun-bleached choco 'grizzly' coloured the other day . . . which is descriptive . . . colour quite like a grizzly bear. Much more yellow/orange than either of PF's cooked liver dishes. Her undercoat is much darker. I like dogs to look like they've been out in the weather.