sandgrubber

I like the German 'platz' for 'drop'. I think that hard 'tz' catches a dog's ear and makes the command more commanding. (correction . . . I originally put sit here . . . senior moment, I'm afraid). I also use 'oui' pretty often for 'down', or 'drop' in cases where the dog is doing something they know they're not supposed to do . . . like jumping up on a car door to greet the people inside, or carrying off the butter. Dogs don't generalise in the same way humans do, but most seem to get a command that says: 'you know that's not ok, stop".

Oops, double post

My BIGGEST not is someone who wants the pup at a certain time as a surprise gift (birthday, Xmas, etc) for someone else. I don't mind any of the NOTS listed, though I generally list puppy prices to save people from asking about a pup they can't afford. I sort of like the tweet-style emails (Do U have any pups? How much?) . . . generally keep a brief text around saying when pups are expected, describing the sire and dam, giving the price, and telling people that if they would like to be put down for a pup, I'd like the following info . . . etc.

Interesting thread. It's refreshing to hear a dog problem discussed and not once have 'more education' advocated as a solution.

Go for it. I'm sure others will be grateful to you. If you haven't met aggressive dogs there before, it's a good dog beach, and people care. . . . and the Rangers are probably good. It's probably worth saying a few flattering words about what a great beach it is and thank them for keeping it free of aggressive dogs. Good council workers deserve recognition.

I'm a sucker for old dog photos. Came across this one, unfortunately undated. The breeds are collie (the Queen preferred dropped ears), smooth daschund, and either a terrier mix or an undocked Foxie. The poster speculates that the dogs like the Queen's collies contributed to the development of the Gordon setter. Things sure were different back in the days before the stud books closed! source: http://retrieverman.wordpress.com/2012/01/15/some-of-queen-victorias-dogs/

I made no blanket statement against in/line breeding as I'm getting different opinions for different sides and haven't had the time to read the huge amount of information carefully. I am quite ready to say that close line breeding can unearth nasty recessive traits, and should not be undertaken by 'beginning' breeders who find it convenient to use a dog they have bred over his mother or half sister, even if he seems healthy and is a lovely dog. The canine genome has around 3 billion base pairs. The general effect of inbreeding is to make an increasing number of those base pairs homozygous. Line- or inbreeding with selection may help in getting the 'baddies' to drop out of the target base pairs, leaving the DNA more homozygous for the desired state of the target allele. How many traits are you breeding for . . . I'd guess less than 500. What happens to the 3 billion minus 500 base pairs? They also become more homozygous. Eventually this will lead to problems. I came across a table for pup survival rate vs COI. Unfortunately, the blogger didn't note his source. If you have better data, please post it. But until someone comes up with verified numbers, this is what I accept as a tentative hypothesis: COI: survival rate <0.19: 75% 0.25-0.67: 51% >0.67: 25% source: http://www.astraean....g-yourself.html

Good opportunity for a dog loving geek to work out some solution. Finding pups can be a mess. There should be a better, easy for lister, easy for 'wantsapuppy'-er to locate quality pedigree pups . . . and facilitate transfers of information associated with finding quality homes . . . or finding quality pups.

That is correct and the official way of doing things, although many don't bother to let the KC know they have done AI. http://www.frozenstuddog.net/ is another company you could look at, they are in the UK in the NW of england. Happy Hands seems to be particularly attractive to Labrador folks because they are associated with Balrion at Weathertop, a respected Labrador kennel with some lovely dogs. Sometime in the last decade, they moved from the US to Scotland.

So how far do we need to play with this - Last time I looked the human race had one of four women in common didn't they? Dogs move through generations a lot quicker than humans. What is your COI ? i don't know what mine is or what my ex husbands was but we each turned out to carry the same gene which causes haemochromotosis . I have 5 of 8 kids affected by it - so no doubt if we went back in our pedigrees far enough we would see where it came from - one common ancestor. If I had of known the lines and the pedigree i could have avoided that mating and prevent my kids from suffering - there was I thinking I was safe with an out cross. Lets not forget that humans in Australia can legally marry their cousins. the only time COI are helpful is if we know what else is in there. I don't know where you looked to see the human race had four women in common. How does this true up with recent discoveries that we all carry a bit of Neanderthal? As for COI: Good you asked. My maternal grandparents were first cousins and I have inherited a couple family conditions. 1) 14 of my permanent teeth never came in, and I've required implants and bridges to maintain a fully functional mouth. An aunt and great aunt were also born without permenant teeth. 2) I show a biological false positive on the Wasserman test . . . as was my grandmother. Knock on wood . . . the latter is said to be associated with autoimmune conditions, but so far I haven't suffered any. Studies of inbred human populations tend to show negative health consequences. See, eg., http://www.ncbi.nlm....les/PMC2080450/ I don't know where you got your information about human groups that practice consanguineous marriage. The patterns are complex. . . . and the practices are widespread. See, eg: www.consang.net/images/d/dd/01AHBWeb3.pdf If you look at populations where the pedigrees of humans can be traced, eg, royal families in Europe, I think you'll find that inbreeding has created health and fertility problems. Island populations with small founder populations are commonly highly inbred. And they often go extinct.

So how far do we need to play with this - Last time I looked the human race had one of four women in common didn't they? Dogs move through generations a lot quicker than humans. What is your COI ? i don't know what mine is or what my ex husbands was but we each turned out to carry the same gene which causes haemochromotosis . I have 5 of 8 kids affected by it - so no doubt if we went back in our pedigrees far enough we would see where it came from - one common ancestor. If I had of known the lines and the pedigree i could have avoided that mating and prevent my kids from suffering - there was I thinking I was safe with an out cross. Lets not forget that humans in Australia can legally marry their cousins. the only time COI are helpful is if we know what else is in there. I don't know where you looked to see the human race had four women in common. How does this true up with recent discoveries that we all carry a bit of Neanderthal? As for COI: Good you asked. My maternal grandparents were first cousins and I have inherited a couple family conditions. 1) 14 of my permanent teeth never came in, and I've required implants and bridges to maintain a fully functional mouth. An aunt and great aunt were also born without permenant teeth. 2) I show a biological false positive on the Wasserman test . . . as did my grandmother. Knock on wood . . . the latter is said to be associated with autoimmune conditions, but so far I haven't suffered any.

I didn't say inbreeding is common. I said the most common reason for inbreeding was convenience. I cannot prove this, and I don't think anyone can disprove it. I I don't know the truth about inbreeding. It's clear that, carefully done, it can produce healthy, uniform lines. Also clear that, taken to the extreme, homozygousity can be ruinous to health. Eg, lab mice: http://www.astraean....d-lab-mice.html and the Isle Royale wolf population in Lake Michigan (island population apparently founded by two males and one female around 1950) http://www.astraean....and-wolves.html To me, the interesting question is "how has low diversity affected breeds that were founded by very small populations". I think the jury is still out on this. But in such cases, even if the five generation COI looks good, the COI that would be derived by going all the way back to the founding of the breed would be very high. Here the problem isn't matings too close on the family tree, but the difficulty of finding any way to avoid breeding dogs who are genetically very closely related. I'm sure you are careful about inbreeding, and use it, as you say, as a way to predict EVERYTHING. But for an inexperienced breeder, who has not had a decade or two to observe the lines they are working with and done a lot of reading . . . and who is not in a position to deal with the consequences of an inbred litter that turns out to show serious hidden recessives . . . I think it's a very bad idea to use 'the boy next door' in a brother/sister of son/mother mating, even if he is a handsome devil and seems healthy (at, say, 4 years of age).

Has anyone had experience with Happy Hands? They claim (for UK dogs): http://www.balrion.com/Happy_Hands Ship Fresh Chilled Semen Worldwide Mini Tube America CaniPro long life extender keeps semen viable for at least 7 days. We can do the paperwork Arrange for collection Arrange shipping and delivery All fees including stud fee may be paid by credit card Use our service or just our kits From start to finish we jump through all the hoops so you don’t have to I thought the UK was really bad about AI . . . but do they permit export to other countries? Would AQIS raise so many roadblocks that more than 7 days is needed? Do extenders really work to 7 days?

Here's the organisational link http://pet-connections.org/pet-transport/index.html They look good on paper. Pulling dogs from impoverished suburbs and marketing them in better off areas seems like a sound idea. No idea if they're genuine, or a wolf in sheep's clothing . . . or (most likely) some sort of mixed blessing. California government is broke and I can imagine that shelters in poorer neighborhoods would do anything to reduce the number of dogs they pts and bring in a few bucks.

It would be interesting to know what sort of dogs they are taking from shelters. Pit bulls dominate the LA shelters and have horrid euthanasia rates. Are they going through the shelters and taking the most adoptable dogs . . . thus leaving the shelters, increasingly, with dogs that are very difficulty to rehome?

Yes, especially if it gives the option of checking references.

Surprised and impressed. I wrote to CERF and got a quick and thorough reply! Here's the scoop: This condition is inherited in Labradors (or at least based on numbers (incidence) listed in the book of inherited ocular conditions of purebred dogs considered so). There's not really a great place to read about this but basically it is a remnant or incomplete regression of an embryologic blood vessel that runs from the optic nerve at the back of the eye to the back of the center of the lens to nourish the lens during development. In dogs (this varies with species) if it persists after puppy-hood, it is called a persistent hyaloid artery. It may be blood filled still and then potentially result in bleeding in the back of the eye (though it usually does nothing). It is rarely associated with an opacity or cataract of the back of the lens. It can also be non-patent (without being filled with blood) and/or partial (not spanning the entire distance from the nerve to the lens). So as you were told, I agree that you should expect no consequences. As for the breeding implications and CERF, in breeds where this is an issue, it still passes CERF because it is so benign. It will pass with breeder option qualifier of F1 for persistent hyaloid but really the only thing would be to try or ideally breed away from it by breeding to individuals that don't have F1 which is pretty easy to do as not that many have it, and possibly avoiding E1s (cataract significance unknown) that are posterior capsular (at the back of the lens) and might have a relationship to persistent hyaloid arteries or other similar issues that labs get - in order to know what a specific E1 on a CERF certificate is, you'd have to see the actual exam form.... Anyway, this really shouldn't be a big deal at all and the only reason to monitor it at all is to avoid breeding it "in" with potential more serious consequence in the pups (pretty unlikely). Hope this helps but feel free to email with further questions or concerns.

I'd agree that articulate breeders who line breed do so selectively, and for a reason. But historically, I think you'll find a lot of breeders (not the top eschelon) used the nearest acceptable dog . . . Even now, when it's relatively easy/cheap to travel or do AI, I suspect that there are quite a few people who can't resist the temptation to use one of the beautiful dogs that came out their lines over his half sister . . . or equivalent combinations. I'd be very surprised if close line breeding wasn't widespread on puppy farms. I'd love to see someone go through pedigree registrations and prove me wrong. Meanwhile, I think it's good to keep the bar high . . . and to make it shameful to line breed for convenience and cost reduction.

I'd agree that articulate breeders who line breed do so selectively, and for a reason. But historically, I think you'll find a lot of breeders (not the top eschelon) used the nearest acceptable dog . . . Even now, when it's relatively easy/cheap to travel or do AI, I suspect that there are quite a few people who can't resist the temptation to use one of the beautiful dogs that came out their lines over his half sister . . . or equivalent combinations. I'd be very surprised if close line breeding wasn't widespread on puppy farms. I'd love to see someone go through pedigree registrations and prove me wrong. Meanwhile, I think it's good to keep the bar high . . . and to make it shameful to line breed for convenience and cost reduction.

I don't know a lot about demodetic mange, but did some hand holding of someone whose dog had a really really bad case. The ivomectin was very expensive. Is there any way to cut the expenses by buying Ivomectin packaged for horses, cattle or goats (much cheaper) and splitting the doses?

One of my girls got a nasty looking wart-like growth near her eye. The vet said it didn't look dangerous and to keep a watch on it. It grew slowly and eventually got too near the eye so I had it surgically removed. That was 3 yrs ago. No recurrence.

I've been through a dozen or so speys. Some girls act sorry for themselves, probably because they are in some pain, for a few days. Others are bouncy once they recover from the anesthetic. My biggest problem has been keeping them inactive and out of water. One of my vets said it was ok if their activity level picks up a bit in the last half of the 10 day wait period . . .

+1

If the whole lineage is derived, purebred, from a handful of dogs, you have no choice but to inbreed or outcross to another breed. I wouldn't breed half-brother/sister out of respect for those concerned about genetic diversity . . . in the long term diversity is a valid concern, though most of the time the pups from a close mating will be ok. The most common reason for this breeding is the dog is nearby and with someone you know. . . maybe even a dog you can use without paying stud fee. And you know the dog and he looks like your kind of dog . . . ie, kennel blindness. That's not good enough. p.s. you state: "the dog dam is the bitches mother daughter." Please translate.

I took my girl in to get CERF'd and the vet diagnosed she has persistent non patent hyloid artery. The vet said it was harmless, and not known to be hereditary in Labradors, but that she wasn't sure the girl would pass CERF with this on her charts. 1) does anyone know anything about the condition? 2) if it's harmless and probably not hereditary, why bother to scare us with the diagnosis? With a little more web scanning, I realise the problem is what is sometimes called 'floaters' in humans . . . and that its only bad effect is that it sometimes interferes with reading. Bonza is not big on reading.