sandgrubber

You must talk to different sorts of people than I do. Most of my friends would be surprised by dogs not having free reign. My dogs do get dirty and, yes, they mean more washing, cleaning, vacuuming, and a lower standard of cleanliness. So what? Tray a cost/benefit analysis. Living around dogs all my life has given me a much stronger immune response, and imparts an element of grounded wisdom in a world that offers all sorts of insanity.

What happened to the famed Aussie tall poppy syndrome. Is it not ok to question a dog that wins? I understand why you showie folks are so defensive. You subscribe to a tradition that has a lot to answer for. The Peke is on par with the pug in terms of brachycephalic health concerns. The breed as shown in modern shows has little to do with the original breed. . . . no question that competition has warped the breed to a less healthy conformation. Above is Lootie, one of the original Pekingese dogs taken from the 1860 British raid of the Chinese Summer Palaces in Beijing. Lootie was given to Queen Victoria as a gift. Note: Lootie (name reflects being looted from the Summer Palace) has short, but not collapsed, muzzle, and moderate legs and coat. Below are three Pekes form a leading UK Peke breeder in 1899. What has the show fancy done to this breed? If the charismatic little furball that won Wesminster this year is the apex of the showing world, it simply reinforces my . . . and many other people's . . . disgust for the health-decimating selective pressures imposed by show breeding. Pedigrees are great. Careful breeding is wonderful. Breeding for some sort of charisma that revolves around 'cuteness' and ignores health is absolute rubbish. I'm just as happy to attack the animal rights mafia as the showie mafia. Both are corrupt. Ok, hide your heads in the sand, or shoot the messanger. But show-based breeding has a lot to answer for, and H$U$ is going to continue its gains until pedigree breeders put more weight on health and function of dogs in society. btw. to follow another stream of comments on this story go to http://retrieverman.wordpress.com/2012/02/15/qualzucht-wins-big-at-westminster/#comments

From the AKC breed standard for Pekinese" . . . long, coarse-textured, straight, stand-off outer coat, with thick, soft undercoat. The coat forms a noticeable mane on the neck and shoulder area with the coat on the remainder of the body somewhat shorter in length. A long and profuse coat is desirable providing it does not obscure the shape of the body. Long feathering is found on toes, backs of the thighs and forelegs, with longer fringing on the ears and tail. . . . Presentation should accentuate the natural outline of the Pekingese. ??????

The press has been good about protecting privacy in this case. The CBC was able to speak to the categories, if not the individual circumstances http://www.cbc.ca/news/canada/edmonton/story/2012/02/16/calgary-airdrie-dog-baby-killed.html The Siberian husky that mauled a newborn boy to death in the southern Alberta city of Airdrie was part of the family's dog sled business, CBC News has learned, and had never caused problems before. The family also participates in dog races both in Alberta and B.C. [british Colombia]. If you do your searches on Canada's dog bite fatalities, you'll find that this is not the first sad interaction between sled dogs and infants.

Opinions on this are cheap. Slow news day? Interesting that the story didn't consider the reduction in asthma associated with close contact with pets. I'd like to see comparison of the damage caused by bringing pets indoor vs that caused by keeping them outdoors . . . especially if it included costs borne by the neighbours and community.

I admit, I'm prejudice and no devotee of big coats . . .but Are you sure that's a dog and not something out of StarWars? I thought dogs had noses and legs :laugh:. Can't remember ever seeing a dog who didn't move at all in the joints when picked up. You'd almost think him a plush toy. Seeing such an overdone representative of the breed winning the big national show makes it easier to understand why pedigree registrations are declining and animal rights organisations are gaining ground.

If you can start the day without caffeine, If you can always be cheerful, ignoring aches and pains, If you can resist complaining and boring people with your troubles, If you can eat the same food every day and be grateful for it, If you can understand when your loved ones are too busy to give you any time, If you can take criticism and blame without resentment, If you can conquer tension without medical help, If you can relax without alcohol, If you can sleep without the aid of drugs, ... Then You Are ... | ..... Undoubtedly ..... The Family Dog!

Caroline Le Couteur MLA, ACT Greens Spokesperson for TAMS 15 February 2012 

Greens call on dog-loving MLAs' support for Bill
 The Greens will table a bill today which addresses unregulated and inhumane breeding and selling of cats and dogs in the ACT. "We have to act to reduce the abandonment, suffering and euthanizing of thousands of animals in Canberra every year," Greens TAMS spokesperson, Caroline Le Couteur MLA, said today. Tragically, the TAMS Domestic Animal Service euthanised 210 dogs in 2010/11, and the RSPCA was also forced to euthanise 105 dogs and 825 cats. "For two years now we've waited for the Government to act on an undertaking they made to introduce a Code of Practice to address the issue. "Meanwhile other jurisdictions have moved to address these exact problems. The Victorian and Queensland Governments have both moved to regulate puppy breeding. There was a long time when the ACT was leading the country in animal welfare standards, but this is no longer the case. "Through our consultation process, the Greens received a huge amount of support for this Bill, including from the animal welfare community and the general public. The Greens' Bill includes: • Licensing of cat and dog breeders, and mandatory standards for breeding operations • Desexing of appropriately aged pets at point of sale • Strengthened animal cruelty laws • A new system of microchip traceability to ensure breeders are known • Regulation of the advertising of animals for sale • Limiting cat and dog sales to licensed and regulated sellers. "I think that Canberrans buying a pet will welcome the assurance that the animal has not been inhumanly bred or mistreated prior to sale. "The Greens have consistently pushed for these animal welfare reforms. There is no reason that dog loving MLAs shouldn't support this pro-puppy bill," Ms Le Couteur said. You can view the Bill as tabled at: http://www.legislati...988/default.asp features: It's a criminal offense for a vet not to report violations. Conviction for breeding without a license can carry a 1 year jail sentence and 100 penalty points. MEDIA CONTACT: Tom Burmester– 0423 657 561 ACT Legislative Assembly GPO Box 1020, Canberra ACT 2601

There are two main issues here: double merle, or homozygous for a gene that is lethal or semi-lethal when homozygous; and inbreeding. I am repulsed by the idea that people do merle x merle breedings so as to produce a MM sire, who is very likely to be blind, deaf, or both. I am also repulsed by the notion that there is a market, among competitive show breeders, for MM sires so as to produce uniformly Mm litters. A few questions 1. Are there, or should there be, limits on how far people go to get to the 'top' of the show world? 2. Why does colour matter so much? Is it worth risking deliberate creation of disabled dogs to end out with sires who will produce a predictable merle colour? 3. Is it ok to use sires who are disabled or not viable in a normal environment in order to get a desired gene? For example, if someone figured out how to produce a fertile, male, crestie that was homozygous for the hairless gene -- perhaps using extreme measures such as doing an early ceasar and keeping pups going in incubators (homozygous pups are normally absorbed or die at birth) -- would it be ok to create such a dog . . . in order to produce litters that are entirely hairless? 4. If some practices are not ok, who should be the policeman? With respect to inbreeding, I think there's a lot to be learned. But it would be good to see those going in for very tight line breeding strategies doing some genetic tests relating to the MLC/DLA genes to insure that, in promoting the visible conformation traits they desire, they are not compromising the genetic basis of immune response. . . . and making their findings public. If 'purebred' breeders cut a lot of corners and do deals with the devil to get their BISS, I can see why pedigree registrations and public appreciation of pedigree dogs are on the decline. p.s. As I read further, I find that the merle question is pretty complicated. There doesn't seem to be a genetic test for the M gene, and there are crypto-merles. So breeding a known MM dog to a bitch who isn't an obvious merle may result in 50% MM pups . . . my own breed has simple colour genetics, so I may not have this right.

My girls need some recall work. I've been skimming various training advice -- there's so much out there and a lot of it seems good. Many of the exercises begin with: "Have a family member ....". Oops. I live alone. Nearest family member is a 45 minute drive, and probably couldn't be bothered with helping me train my dogs. Has anyone seen training material that doesn't assume you have a 'helper' to call on?

If you want some stats, try Consumer Reports. They generally conclude pet insurance is a rip off and you're better off making a monthly payment into your bank account to serve as an emergancy fund. Most of my vet costs aren't covered by insurance.

That's not even comparing apples to oranges . . . more like comparing bindi-burrs to bricks :D For most of us automobiles are a necessary evil. Now wandering cats . . . or do you drive to work in you cat? If automobiles that were not locked in the garage climbed fences, got into fights, went feral, bred prolifically, and crapped in gardens, I think people would demand that they get locked up.

Sorry not trying to hijack but I've not heard about choc labs before. We have a couple in the extended family with behavioural issues. Can you give me more info on chocolate issues please (PM is fine if you prefer)? All I was saying about choco labs is that, because many Australian breeders charge more for chocolates than yellows or blacks, some people make snide remarks about breeders going for chocolates to make money. This may be true in some cases. No question, there are some badly bred chocolates in Australia. There are also some badly bred yellows and blacks. On the other hand, there are also some people who have put a lot of time and effort into bringing up the quality of chocolates in Australasia. In Europe and the US, chocolates are not much different than other colours in outcomes, popularity, or price. My point, which I guess I made poorly, was that people carp about breeding for colour in Labs, when there is are no health consequences . . . why are they so tolerant of breeding for colour when the fashionable colour involves a lethal semi-dominant gene.

I don't get this bit? The AKC invites the 5 top ranked dogs. 2 blue merle dogs happened to be in the top 5 - this is because show judges gave them wins, not because the AKC chooses the top 5 dogs based on colour or the like.... You are exactly right RallyValley, but sandgrubber doesn't show her dogs so perhaps she didn't know, I'm sure she wouldn't use this little smear campaign as an excuse to deliberately denigrate the AKC ;) Are you saying the AKC has nothing to do with who becomes a judge? Do you think a breed specialist judge won't be familiar with the pedigrees of the national winners in the breed? Does the AKC not have it in its power to ban merle to merle breeding? Are you saying judges are colour blind? I think 3 of the top 5 are blue merle . . . two have the same sire . . . who was the product of a deliberate merle to merle mating.

What distressed me in this was - the AKC gave these dogs high honors in 2011, and is doing so again in 2012; thus in effect, the AKC is endorsing merle to merle breedings - it is all about colour. The US breed standard says about colour: The four recognized colors are "Sable and White," "Tri-color," "Blue Merle" and "White." There is no preference among them." But obviously the show world is giving strong preference to the blue merle . . . People give Lab breeders sh#t for producing chocolates. This is the equivalent of producing a chocolate, knowing that you cannot do so without a high probability of blindness or deafness. To say nothing about the popular sires problem.

Most Australians will test positive to toxo because we live in close proximity to agriculture. Does that mean we'll all end up with late onset schizophrenia? That's the BBC palming off mad cows' disease in England :laugh: . Even so - contain your cats. I take no responsibility if a wandering cat comes in my yard and my dogs kill it and I'm certainly not going to swerve to hit a cat on the road in the middle of the night and risk wrapping myself around a pole. If your wandering cat dies - too bad. Keep the bloody thing indoors! There are a lot more mad humans out there than mad cows :D. Who knows. The case for damage in marsupials, which Aloysha pointed out, is solid. J Comp Pathol. 1990 Aug;103(2):159-67. Lesions of toxoplasmosis in Australian marsupials. Canfield PJ, Hartley WJ, Dubey JP. Source Veterinary Quarantine Centre, Taronga Zoo, Mosman, N.S.W. Australia. Abstract This report describes toxoplasmosis lesions in Australian marsupials. Clinical signs, necropsy findings and histopathological changes are summarized for 43 macropods, two common wombats, two koalas, six possums, 15 dasyurids, two numbats, eight bandicoots and one bilby. Animals either died suddenly without clinical signs or exhibited signs associated with respiratory, neurological or enteric disease. At necropsy, many marsupials had no visible lesions. Where present, common necropsy findings included pulmonary congestion, oedema and consolidation, adrenal enlargement and reddening, haemorrhage and ulceration of stomach and small intestine, and lymphadenomegaly and splenomegaly. Microscopically, affected lungs showed interstitial pneumonia and macrophage accumulation. Myocardial, skeletal and smooth muscle necrosis and neutrophilic inflammation were common. Organs had focal necrosis and/or fibrosis and lymphoid infiltrates. Toxoplasma gondii tissue cysts were common in muscle and nervous tissue. Free tachyzoites were commonly present in areas of necrosis. Selected sections from four macropods, two koalas, two dasyurids, one wombat and one possum stained specifically with avidin-biotin complex and anti-Toxoplasma gondii serum. Another study found 15% of Western greys around Perth were infected . . . higher incidence where there are more cats.

Not a smear campaign, unless you believe that anyone who argues for maintaining diversity is out to smear people who inbreed. A science-oriented blogger with a biology background and a deep commitment to Border Collies. . . .which extends to other herding breeds. He is deeply worried by the popular sire effect. The two collies were not entered, they were invited to enter. Creme de la creme. They aren't blind or deaf, but they were both sired by a dog who is blind and deaf.

Read a shocking blog post about the Wesminster (US equivalent of Crufts) dogshow invites. I'm cutting and pasting a short version . . . would encourage reading the whole thing at http://www.astraean....estminster.html (includes pedigrees and pictures . . . backing the inbreeding claim). There are 5 Rough Collies invited to compete at the 2012 Westminster Dog show. Those dogs are: CH Colebrae After Midnight GCH CH Clarion Ribbon In The Sky GCH CH Sylvan Argent It's All About Me GCH CH Taliesin Fashion Forward GCH CH Wyndlair Cherokee Vindication The final dog and bitch are also the top two Rough Collies of 2011: Besides their stellar show careers, these two dogs share the same matador sire, Wyndlair Avalanche, the blind and deaf intentionally bred double merle stud dog. [The link goes to a profile of Wyndlair Avalance . . . who isn't a CH because he's blind and can't manage the show ring]. Both of these dogs are highly inbred with shallow COIs approaching 20%. You'll also notice that both dogs are completely inbred on the same dog at the great grandfather level, the popular sire Southland's Bowen Island. In both dogs' pedigrees, Bowen is the only great grandfather. This isn't as obvious on a text pedigree, but on a visual one, there is a great degree of pedigree collapse. Do others find this disturbing? It kinda puts me off the AKC . . . I was already pretty dubious about the show ring as a decider of dog quality.

I think it was PT Barnum (famous circus man) who said: "Nobody ever lost a dollar by underestimating the intelligence of the American public".

I find goldies shed more. Guess it depends on individuals. Guide Dogs has tried both breeds. They use an occasional golder Labrador (ie, cross) but they find that if you use good lines, Labbies have more stable, unflappable temperament. I saw a scientifically done study on this some time back, but can't find it now.

I have never been anything BUT realistic about kids AND dogs! And I've never said that I would be held unaccountable if one of my dogs did attack a kid entering the yard. That, if you recall, was my main concern. I'm not naive. I class myself as a responsible dog owner and a responsible parent as well. My dogs are healthy and well-socialised and in so far as they can be, childproofed. My fences are regulation height and well-maintained, my gates lock securely and yes, despite what others may think, my yard IS secure....for MY needs and those of my family and my own dogs. What other people (ie neighbours) do with their yards is their business and I class the kid next door as being their problem so they need to do something about THEIR security issues!!! It surely isn't however too much to ask that I can have a bit of a whinge about people who don't apparently even attempt to instill values of not trespassing, not stealing and not approaching strange dogs into their children? I have certainly had more than my share of battles with my own children and their behavioural issues and learning disabilities over the years, yet have still managed to lay ground rules for all of the above, so why would it be unreasonable to wish that other parents would/could do the same??? Winges are fine. I'm sure it was a shocker for you. I hope you can work things out with the parents so there are no repeats. BUT. . . Lots of kids have behavioural issues. Jeez. Read a Harry Potter book. The little wizards spend half their time going to places they aren't allowed. I totally support going back to parents, or other responsible adults if the parents are so zoned out that realistic communication won't happen, and working to keep kids from playing in the road or your back yard. But that doesn't mean some other poorly disciplined kid with some fantasy in his/her head isn't going to do something stupid. My point was not that you, Ellz, need to kid-proof your yard. The point was that the judicial system is not guaranteed to be sympathetic, and people who have serious guard dogs would be well advised to (a) childproof; and (b) carry liability insurance . . . preferably to the tune of $1M+. A kid who doesn't have mature judgement and who mayhave all sorts of grandiose fantasies running around in his or her head (or just covet some ripe fruit) may do some very stupid things. Holy Moly, if a kid climbs your fence and drowns in your swimming pool, you're in trouble if you don't have proper childproof pool fencing. Some parents don't supervise well (my father was never around and my mother was consistently drunk). Talk all you will about how parents should be responsible . . . . I'll hold firm that using dogs as weapons to protect your house is a risky strategy, given society's present mixed feelings about dogs. Ellz clearly doesn't belong in the dogs as weapons category, and I didn't mean the message for her. And the real dogs-as-weapons advocates probably aren't listening . . . so why am I wasting my breath?

Speaking of wandering cats, did anyone pick up the BBC science news clip relating to toxoplasmosis and schizophrenia? http://www.bbc.co.uk/programmes/b01061hk . Your wandering cat could literally be driving the neighbours crazy.

If you buy into the tiny cage = cruelty line, make sure D. Trantar doesn't catch you crating your dog.

Mine are energetic and very affectionate just before meal time, especially if they think I may have forgotten. Nudge, nudge. They slow down (often sleep) after eating

Longer . . . and more distressing coverage at http://www.couriermail.com.au/news/queensland/terror-on-marina-man-severs-dogs-head-stabs-man/story-e6freoof-1226268510490 Man charged after stabbing rampage Mackenzie Ravn | 03:25pm February 11, 2012 A man is taken into custody after a dog was killed and a man stabbed at Hope Island. Pics: Kate Czerny. Pictures: Stabbing rampage at Hope Island A 42-YEAR-old Gold Coast man has been charged with attempted murder and animal cruelty after a dog was decapitated and a man stabbed this morning. Investigations indicate an argument took place between a man and a woman around 8am at the Hope Island Marina where it will be alleged the man slapped the woman in the face, before arming himself with a knife and fatally wounding her dog -- a small, brown poodle named Georgie -- by severing its head. The owners of the dog are Bob and Ros Covington. It will be further alleged he then stabbed another man, the marina's harbour master Mike Davis, causing serious but non life-threatening injuries. Police were called to the scene and took a man into custody a short time later. A 42-year-old Hope Island man has been charged with one count each of attempted murder, acts intending to cause grievous bodily harm, going armed as to cause fear, assault occasioning bodily harm, possession of a knife in a public place, animal cruelty and injuring animals. He is due to appear before the Southport Magistrates Court on Monday. Mr Davis, who was stabbed in the abdomen, is in a serious but stable condition in Gold Coast Hospital. Residents barricaded themselves inside their homes near the marina as a man wandered the area brandishing a blood-covered carving knife and screaming that he was 'the dark angel'. Divers are currently on scene searching for the knife. Marina resident Brian Johnston described the alleged offender as a quiet neighbour. ``He was running around wielding a knife covered in blood which was really scary,'' he said. ``It is just unbelievable, his brain had just gone out of control because he was calling out to the heavens and quoting scripture.'' "It started with a noise of the dog yelping. I thought a car had hit the dog but then I heard a person screaming. "A lot of people came out of their boats to see what was going on but once the message got out that he had stabbed the harbour master we all locked ourselves in our boats. "I have lived here for two-and-a-half years and we mostly an elderly bunch of dog and boat lovers. "It is just a great community atmosphere. We have a great community spirit so this is devastating. "He is a big man and all he had on was his jocks so it was very intimidating. He was walking up and down with the knife held up to his head quoting scripture. The police were at the gate telling him to drop the knife but he kept saying come and get it." An eyewitness who did not wish to be named said: "We could see him hacking away the dog's throat and then he came around to our jetty so we barricaded ourselves in. "Two months ago the same man had the police here after he locked himself and his family in his boat and threatened to burn it down," she said.