ellz

Good for you Nancy!! The way they handle the card/certificate requests here in Tassie is to stickytape a piece of paper on a table at the Secretary's office for exhibitors wanting cards to write down the exhibit number. That way they are just checked periodically for new additions, crossed off as written and left in a convenient place to be collected so that the entire flow of the office isn't disrupted for card requests. They even did this for In Group cards this past weekend due to so many people not collecting those which were previously written automatically.

I do not respond to mobile numbers if they are left as the sole method of contact. In the first place I see no reason why I should foot the bill for what is 9 times out of 10 a lengthy conversation and anyway, I cannot dial mobiles from my home number by choice. If somebody has sent me an email, then a reasonable assumption is that they have email capabilities and I am then more than happy to continue communication with them VIA email....up to a point because there will invariably be a need to speak with them sooner or later if our "relationship" is to continue. But by then, they will more than likely have rung me anyway or other mutually agreeable arrangements to speak will have been made. I have no discrimination against free email addresses. I tend to use them as well so as to keep spam and viruses away from my private address books.

Learn to use the search function. It is very simple to use, and you will avoid getting confused about what has been said. I don't expect you to appease my sensibilities, I just think it is rude to complain about what others say without really reading what they wrote. Er....complaining? I thought I was adding some more comment to the thread in rebuttal to your comments about car yards and car salesmen? Forgive me this time for having an opinion. Oh and FWIW, I do use the search function frequently but if you try and do a search for that particular post, without actually knowing WHO posted it (because I honestly couldn't remember), the entire thread still comes up! Just a little FYI....... FFS, is it a full moon? Or NEAR a full moon?

Public forum.....multiple page thread....topic been in and out of my mind all night. My SINCEREST apologies for not going back through every single post so as to appease your sensibilities!

Can't remember which post it was and haven't got time to go trawling back through them all, but was thinking about this thread overnight (as you do) and something occurred to me. It rang a couple of bells at the time but I couldn't work out why......... It was about a car saleyard and how the people there are trained to deal with "tyrekickers" but still treat them all the same. Dog breeders are NOT car salesmen and I'd be appalled if they were suddenly perceived as having to BE like a car salesman. Breeding animals of any kind is so much unlike retail sales that it is like comparing apples and oranges as any reputable and responsible breeder would and should know! Only the enquiring party will truly know whether or not they are a tyrekicker or time waster when enquiring about a dog or a litter of puppies and the breeder/seller has to make their mind up from an initial enquiry. If a person is so offended at seeing "No time wasters" in an ad, then they more than likely won't bother to enquire and the seller has lost a potential sale. I'm sure the seller is aware of that and can probably sleep very soundly at night!

My Roger won another two Baby In Groups this weekend and beat sister Flame both days! This sees the end of their baby campaign...next time out, they're up playing with the big kids!!!!! Another lovely social weekend with the Rajacadoo-doo-doos, Flatchat, Maxbox and Hounder. Spied Quoll in the distance I think and Huganewf came along today too. I *think* I saw Bokezu, but wasn't sure if it was her or not so didn't go and say hi. Beautiful day yesterday, very changeable day today. Winter is definitely on its way Down Under Down Under!

We witnessed a classic "judge in a hurry" scenario at a show today. Group 6 specials were being judged. The first few dogs were in the ring. The judge walks over and hands the sash to the Dobermann exhibitor.....as the Samoyed comes flying into the ring. The Samoyed exhibitor was justifiably pissed!

That may be the case, but as the certificates are printed and supplied by DogsNSW, then I would be very surprised if they were not available to clubs to purchase as well. In many places it would seem it is a "domestic" decision whether or not to offer them.

Is that Postive Feedback from the Judge??? That would be great but seems to be a rare thing, Iguess they are too busy to say much at the time, and perhaps it's not the done thing? Although I've been bouyed by encouraging comments from Judges such as "promising puppy", "what a lovely line up of beautiful bitches I have here today" and "nice job". But I think comments are rare, apart from a few 'niceities'. I do get alot of postive feedback (and constructive critism) from my fellow competitors which I value greatly. And it's not about the 10c ribbon or a piece of carboard, when I started this post I was very thrilled and happy to have been chosen for a RC, it was my first, and as the days have gone by my initial euphoria has wained somewhat. Some of your comments have made me feel that perhaps it really is no big deal. But it did give me some encouragement for a short while there to keep trying when at times I've felt like giving up, not because I don't think my dog is up to it, I know she is, her biggest handicap is me, but I've been trying hard and learning alot and felt that it was finally starting to come together. I'm sorry that you feel your win has been somewhat negated. I vividly remember the excitement of MY first Reserve challenge so believe me, you're not alone!! Hang in there and your first CC will surely not be too far away!!!

+1 As for NSW not offering Res CC certificates.......when my Stafford was Res CC at the SBT Society Easter Show 1999 (following up on his SBIS the prior Easter), he came home with the Res rosette and a Res CC certificate.

Sounds very reasonable and responsible to me. I'd just say that breeder is one of the ones who belongs in the rude breeders' thread. I'd rather a person do their research and change their mind BEFORE they take a puppy, saves a lot of angst all around later on.

Well I was dead serious with my replies. Most people DON'T know that the American Cocker is NOT a Cav x Cocker. And for some reason they DO think they bark with an accent. And most people DON'T know that the Stafford jaw doesn't lock because they DO listen to the crap spouted by other people and in the media.

EXACTLY!!! As I said in my reply...I'm more than happy to spend hours talking about my breeds and to answer any questions and I receive many, many calls and emails every week whether I have anything available for rehoming or not. 9 times out of 10 a caller themselves will know if they are a timewaster or photo collector. Many are just trying to amuse themselves. Many of them have phoned/emailed EVERY breeder they can find trying to find a puppy....not the BEST puppy/breeder match for them but the cheapest or the one they can haggle down. And many others of them have absolutely NO intention of purchasing because they don't have any money at all, but think that they might manage to luck into something if they try hard enough.

psssst....Labs don't come in gold. The correct colour is yellow!

I've been showing dogs for 24 years now and I still have some of my first Reserve Challenge certificates, although I stopped collecting them after a couple of years or so. Once in a while, I'll come across the folders in which they are kept (one for each of my first dogs!) and smile at the memories they bring back to me. In this day and age of declining numbers, if providing Res CC and even place cards is what it takes to encourage people to hang around for long enough that they are replaced by the next lot of newbies...then it should be done!

The first Mr Ellz made his handling debut when roped into taking an English Cocker bitch in for her class. He somehow managed to get his thumb stuck in the ring of the choker and the judge had to help get him untangled! Over the years I've done the "base over apex" trick a few times....once most notably when I was about 7 months pregnant and showing a Saluki. Have also disabled various tables, place markers and even the odd steward or two!

I look at it this way. I may well have something to sell and I'm perfectly willing to stay on the phone and discuss a potential puppy/adult placement or even just a general breed enquiry with somebody for hours if necessary. BUT...I confess that I get really, really NARKY with people who enquire about something I am offering for sale when they have NO intention whatsoever of actually purchasing it, or if their only intention is to try and haggle, swindle or otherwise deal me out of my own possession simply because they think they can, or they want to. Many people only have a half-hearted idea of whether they are interested and might just be testing the water, but they will still know if they are in a position to actually purchase the puppy/item etc offered and not just kick tyres or collect photos for the fun of it.

Don't be too concerned about not feeling movement just prior to, or even during whelping. Often the puppies go into a kind of "down" process whilst they are summing up the energy that it takes to be born. And if they are in the birth canal, there isn't a lot of room for movement either. I had a maiden bitch recently whose temperature dropped at midday Saturday, she started nesting and getting very uncomfortable at midnight Saturday night and by 5.30am the next morning I had decided she wasn't progressing fast enough and rang the vet. She subsequently had a c-section to deliver her 9 puppies safely. 9 puppies considered a LOT for this breed of dog so the vet wasn't surprised at all. If your girl is expecting a large litter, you need to be that little more vigilant. Sometimes the puppies in the horns of the uterus get very active and end up like a road map inside the bitch and no amount of normal straining can get them out. Once you see VERY intense nesting behaviour....and you'll know it when you see it. It will either present as constant ripping, tearing and scratching at the bedding or alternatively very intense nesting that occurs in regular waves (ie every couple of minutes or so - the same as with human birth contractions) then you need to be on alert and stay with the bitch. If you are at all concerned, get her to the vet for an internal. They can at least tell you if the cervix is opening as it should, whether any puppies are presenting and you are then on hand for any other treatment that they recommend such as oxytocin, observation or worst-case scenario - surgical intervention.

I agree with you (and not something I'd ever do either) but it seems that this isn't the issue rather something to do with a breach of contract... I think there seem to be a number of issues all colliding into one with a lot of red herrings thrown in for flavour. I'm glad I'm not the only one having problems trying to understand them all. Good luck to the OP. Hope you get it sorted to your satisfaction. And a lesson to all of us breeders (as if we needed any more! ) ....put EVERYTHING in writing and don't leave anything open for interpretation or discussion.

If you cannot discuss the agreement, then you cannot expect advice. If you are absolutely convinced that the breeder is in breach, then your only recourse if you wish to take things further is through a lawyer and civil means. And that is going to cost you some pretty serious dollars. Good luck. Hope you get it sorted to your satisfication.

I own the bitch once she had a litter, its not about docked tails, interested to know if its cruel to the dog to travel after a litter and caesar. The breeder did not tell me the dog went to Perth and at that time did not know the vet so makes me wonder why. I was told a pregnant bitch can't fly, I understand your comments regarding car travel thank you for you comments. Breeder is not complying to terms of contract. And I ask again......did you have a written agreement? Sorry I forgot to answer. Yes I do. Were these so called "breaches" of clauses contained within the agreement? Did they specify that the bitch had to remain on the premises of the "breeder" at all times or that the puppies were, or were not to be docked? Did the agreement specify any payment? You should probably seek legal advice if you wish to take things further. The controlling bodies will not get involved in what they term a civil matter.

I own the bitch once she had a litter, its not about docked tails, interested to know if its cruel to the dog to travel after a litter and caesar. The breeder did not tell me the dog went to Perth and at that time did not know the vet so makes me wonder why. I was told a pregnant bitch can't fly, I understand your comments regarding car travel thank you for you comments. Breeder is not complying to terms of contract. And I ask again......did you have a written agreement?

What does your agreement say? I assume you have something in writing? Whenever I have allowed a bitch to be placed on breeder's terms there has been no exchange of money and the bitch and pups and any expenses arising from them are my responsibility. And in addition to that, the placement of the litter are my responsibility, and to put it bluntly....my business and my business alone. Although I did share the details with the other owner of the bitch if requested to do so, although most didn't really care as long as they got their girl back. I also only ever held them to one litter and after the bitch whelped, she was signed over to them in sole ownership. I guess you need to clarify with the "breeder" what the terms and conditions of you having the bitch were. And if there weren't any, then you have learned a lesson and are wise in hindsight. And if there WERE terms and conditions which have been broken, then I guess you have to decide how far you wish to take the matter.

Is anybody else reading this thread totally confused? To the OP...normally the "breeder" of a litter of puppies is the person in whose name the bitch is registered at the time of the whelping of the puppies. Yet you say that she is your bitch and the "breeder" hasn't paid you....how does that work? No, it's NOT "normal" for a bitch to be taken to another location for whelping and tail docking of the litter....HOWEVER...until March 16th some breeders from the East were using a loophole in the WA law so as to enable them to have docked puppies. Not all breeders did this, it was an individual decision. Many, like myself, were content to abide by the law of our own state and leave our puppies undocked.

Sounds a bit suss to me, why didn't you know that your dog went to Perth? And surely the breeder would know the name of the vet, presumably they had a bill to pay? Or did the bitch and puppies go to another party for the procedures? If so, then I think there was only one vet in WA that was performing docking so it wouldn't be too hard for a person to find out which vet it was. What's the problem anyway? Provided it was done before March 16th, the procedure is legal. If the bitch and puppies survived the travel and docking, then isn't it a bit late to be crying over spilt milk now?