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Looks quite normal to me. I certainly wouldn't be concerned enough to go haring off to a vet. It isn't uncommon for a bitch to run out of "puff" whilst whelping a larger litter. The timeframe before the 8th puppy does concern me a tad, but unless you were expecting it, it is possible to believe a bitch has finished and be surprised by a last one. My feeling is that the last two stillborn puppies may well have had placental separation during the course of the fairly lengthy labour and that is what caused their demise. And yes, a deceased puppy will cause the green staining, but this could also have been from the last two deceased puppies, especially if they were alive in the birth canal at any time but became distressed and passed meconium in their sacs. Many bitches move around a lot during labour and are happier to labour standing up. There is no hard and fast rule. This is one of the reasons why us "seasoned veterans" recommend toilet walks on lead, armed with towel and torch during the last few days of the pregnancy.

My love, I'd be hurt if you didn't let me help out via telephone linkup!

Any time at all!! Always happy to lend an ear.

I've always used Troy as well. I changed my protocol for the Stafford litter after reading a thread on here and it was the wormiest litter I've EVER had!!! Back to fortnightly Troy from 2 weeks for me!!

Things have changed considerably when it comes to parenting and common sense unfortunately. I always feel like I'm wasting my breath by trying to reinforce rules about not touching strange animals without permission with my children, when their peers are allowed to run riot. Yet the PARENTS of their peers are the first ones to start screaming and shouting if their child comes to grief as a result of their actions. Whatever happened to taking responsibility for yourself and your children and for setting good examples in the first place? Joe P at the dog show has always been, and will always be incompatible to a degree. Although a small amount of common sense goes a long way. For example, when I first went to a horse show I felt like a duck out of water. It was obvious that things were happening and happening quickly and that whilst I had absolutely NO idea what was going on, the people that "belonged" there did so I did everything within my power to keep myself, and my family to areas that looked like they were out of the way and not going to impede people's progress to and from rings, stables and assembly areas. It's not rocket science but many of the general public seem to want to make it appear like it is.

I have a sign which I used to display at "benched" shows in Tasmania which said "Don't touch the dogs, the owners bite!". It used to generate lots of attention! Quite a few years ago, I did actually smack the fingers of a child who kept reaching into my dogs' coat with his sticky dagwood dog fingers when I had the dog laying on his trolley trying to brush his coat. Buff American Cocker in floor-length hair and tomato sauce really aren't terribly compatible under NORMAL circumstances, let alone 10 minutes from ring time at a Royal show!!! I had asked this child about 5 times to keep his fingers to himself. I had asked his father to ask his child to keep his fingers to himself and from sheer frustration, the next time the fingers appeared in the line of my brush.....they wore it. No, I'm not proud of my actions. Yes, I realise I could have opened up a whole world of trouble for myself. No, I didn't think at the time, it happened very quickly. MAYBE I would do it again if the circumstances were the same.....I'm not sure.

A humourous reply posted by a friend on another list and reprinted here with her permission. <paste>This is true. In fact, if British Petroleum had seen fit to respond to my offer of a baggie full of Puli cords in the early days, we would not be looking at the eco-crisis we're facing now. Stupid, short sighted engineers. Well known facts among corded dog owners: One 10" Puli cord can suck up 50 gallons of water; One 10" WHITE Puli cord can suck up 60 gallons of oil or any other dark, viscous fluid impossible to remove with soap; Two detached Puli cords missing on the dog's show side are enough to make a Puli owner incandescent with grief; Three Puli cords arranged into the characters, "666" and left on the front door mat will drive away irritating men dressed in black and riding bicycles; Four Puli Cords flowing from an outstretched leg are enough to trip an adult male down a flight of steps far more effectively than a slinky toy, in large part because of their stealth. Remember: Silent but deadly; Five Puli cords sacrificed by a dog feeling peckish integrate nicely into a pulley system enabling an agile dog to reach a 5 lb. pork shoulder; Six Puli cords wadded up, while inadequate as an opposable thumb, stop up a toilet more efficiently than 3 rolls of Charmin; Seven would have easily plugged a gushing oil leak; Eight Puli cords are enough to make a Rastafarian Chihuahua; Nine Puli cords can ensnare a small mammal: Two cords (wiggling) to get the critter's attention, the rest to wrap around its thorax. Boa Constrictors got the idea from Pulik. This is true. Ten Puli cords tied end to end can tow a Greyhound bus as long as the gear is set in neutral; A fully corded dog can clear a forest floor of its flora and fauna within several hours, less if there's a dog show the following weekend; Stupid engineers. Boy did they miss the boat this time. Susi Makos Pulik http://www.knobnotes.blogspot.com/ <end paste>

>>>Pet Hair can be put to Good Use" http://www.truthaboutpetfood.com/articles/...tml>>> This is true. In fact, if British Petroleum had seen fit to respond to my offer of a baggie full of Puli cords in the early days, we would not be looking at the eco-crisis we're facing now. Stupid, short sighted engineers. Well known facts among corded dog owners: One 10" Puli cord can suck up 50 gallons of water; One 10" WHITE Puli cord can suck up 60 gallons of oil or any other dark, viscous fluid impossible to remove with soap; Two detached Puli cords missing on the dog's show side are enough to make a Puli owner incandescent with grief; Three Puli cords arranged into the characters, "666" and left on the front door mat will drive away irritating men dressed in black and riding bicycles; Four Puli Cords flowing from an outstretched leg are enough to trip an adult male down a flight of steps far more effectively than a slinky toy, in large part because of their stealth. Remember: Silent but deadly; Five Puli cords sacrificed by a dog feeling peckish integrate nicely into a pulley system enabling an agile dog to reach a 5 lb. pork shoulder; Six Puli cords wadded up, while inadequate as an opposable thumb, stop up a toilet more efficiently than 3 rolls of Charmin; Seven would have easily plugged a gushing oil leak; Eight Puli cords are enough to make a Rastafarian Chihuahua; Nine Puli cords can ensnare a small mammal: Two cords (wiggling) to get the critter's attention, the rest to wrap around its thorax. Boa Constrictors got the idea from Pulik. This is true. Ten Puli cords tied end to end can tow a Greyhound bus as long as the gear is set in neutral; A fully corded dog can clear a forest floor of its flora and fauna within several hours, less if there's a dog show the following weekend; Stupid engineers. Boy did they miss the boat this time. Susi Makos Pulik http://www.knobnotes.blogspot.com/

You're very welcome Karen! I'm glad I was able to be there for you and even more glad that all has ended well. Congratulations on your new babies!!! You'll have to bottle some puppy breath and send it down to me! Now the fun and timewasting begins. You'll find a million very valid reasons to watch each and every movement they make for the next 8 weeks!! A tidy house and normal life as you currently know it is about to end! :D

That's a very promising temp drop. I would say puppies within the next 12 - 24 hours so keep watching.

Yep, during whelping is one thing but in a bitch who is yet to start....that's a whole different thing altogether. If it were me, I'd probably be having a vet look her over, maybe do an internal to see if she is dilating and whether or not the green is actually coming from the cervix.

Do you have a plastic washing basket or a fairly high-sided cardboard box? Put some bedding in it and put it on the passenger front floor well of your car with the puppy in it. That will suffice for the trip home if the crate is a hired one (which they generally are). Take a towel to the airport in case there is any cleaning up that needs to be done. A collar and lead. A bowl and some water. Some newspaper in case of accidents.

I'm sorry but most vets really don't know much about whelping puppies. In my 24 year experience, green ANYTHING is enough to strike fear into my heart particularly at Day 63 gestation. Is there another vet you can go to?

Hamilton is 25 minutes from New Norfolk....about 50 minutes from Bridgewater. Haven't SEEN a snake here in 2 years. Only had snow the winter before last and only for a day or so at a time, not enough to really disrupt anything. Would be worse if you are further up the mountains but a lot of the Central Highlands area is well below the levels that see regular snow..... and I didn't see any last winter because it was too wet (thank goodness the drought broke!!!!). But it does get hot and dry in summer.

Brighton and Clarence actually encompass very large areas with some fairly high density housing and other more rural areas. Brighton is a very, VERY strict council when it comes to dealing with dogs. It is next-to-impossible to get a kennel licence even on acreage there. Clarence seems to be ok with grandfathered licences but very difficult to obtain new ones. Southern Midlands is apparently quite good. Midway between Central Highlands (no limits, no licences) and Brighton for user-friendly service I believe.

Gonna argue with you. Ouse is actually very nice, as is the countryside surrounding it. The Central Highlands is one of the most beautiful regions in Tasmania. Btw, it's StonOr, not Stoner!

What vets say and what vets do can be very different things. Personally, I don't take chances. I'd rather have wormy puppies/bitch than take the risk of putting something into the system during gestation that cannot be removed easily, but that is my opinion.

Yep, I'd be worried about green too. The top nipple theory may be a breed specific thing because I've never noticed it in any of my girls. Day 63 is usually the last day I view any litter with any kind of relaxation......by Day 63 from the last breeding, you should really be seeing some kind of action. The green could be a sign of puppy distress and placental separation. It needs checking.

Just to name a few of the more obvious reasons why air travel is difficult. Being "Down South" doesn't necessarily make it a whole lot easier either depending upon your breed of dog. 1. Jetstar don't take dogs at all 2. AAE/Qantas have banned some types of dogs from travelling at all and others have to travel in specific crate types 3. Virgin don't use "large" planes on every flight and don't always advise of changes to their aircraft until the very last minute 4. There is a set number of dogs per flight on a plane. Much of the time you are lucky and are able to get on without a problem BUT if the number of animals is overbooked or the freight is overweight for some reason, they just bump the animals according to the room needed. I had issues sending a dog back to NSW recently because Virgin kept changing their plane. She was booked to fly out on the Friday afternoon but had to fly out on the Saturday afternoon instead with NO notice. She could not fly Qantas because of her breed. Believe me, I have no issues travelling with dogs to interstate shows if/when I want to go and when I can afford to do so and have done so many times in the past and will hopefully do so again in the future, but I think many of you are being so bloody-minded for no reason whatsoever. Just because YOU find it easy doesn't mean that everybody else does for various reasons and I think many need to be a lot more tolerant of that fact. There are VALID reasons why transport in and out of Tasmania is difficult and the TCA recognises that fact, as do many of the animal transporters. Editing to add: And I forgot my "false-start" when sending one of the Stafford puppies to Cairns a couple of months ago. I was told to turn up at the airport (Virgin) at 4.30am, which I did. Only to be told that the incoming flight from Sydney which was the return flight to Brisbane was cancelled due to issues on the runway that morning so I had to turn around and go back the next morning. On the other hand, putting a puppy on the plane to Flinders Island was easy. $33 plus the petrol from Hamilton to Launceston to Par Avion. And I didn't even have to book him on.

Don't worry, it doesn't matter how many whelpings you oversee, they all have the potential to throw you and I for one always dread them on one hand, but love them on the other. My BIGGEST pet hate is that first night or so when they're so tiny and vulnerable. I wish that timeframe were a bit less stressful!! Poor Koda, she was obviously in whelp from the minute she returned from the stud dog in Melbourne. I took weekly photos of her and I cannot believe how big her belly grew! Mind you, it didn't slow her down much until the last day. She still wanted to round up the horses and jump fences!! Being "confined to barracks" was NOT to her liking one little bit!

Firstly, don't worry. Normal gestation is 59 - 63 days so your girl could whelp safely any time from now and not have a problem. My girl's litter was very large and that is why there was sufficient hormone to send her into labour early. BUT, having said that, quite often bitches carrying very large OR very small litters simply don't go into labour and/or progress as they should. Secondly, I don't think you've seen the true temp drop. I think you've seen a normal range baseline temperature. As you can see by what I posted, my girl's baseline temps were also in the 37.5 - 37.7 range and it wasn't until I saw the drop to 36.7 that I went on "alert". You will know if your girl is having difficulties. In my case, it was more gut feeling and prior knowledge that helped me and also the fact that I live some distance from a reliable veterinary service so was always going to err on the side of caution anyway, even if it meant having an elective c-section done. In the end, it wasn't an emergency c-section, just a well-timed one but the whelping probably would have ended up as an emergency if I'd not acted when I did. Lastly.....this is what my girl looked like at 56 days. I've never had such a large litter in 24 years of breeding and I just had a feeling she would go early and I was right. By all accounts, your girl is progressing normally. Keep taking temps and watch for the drop. Watch her body language. You will know true nesting when it starts, it is very very easily recognised. As with humans, the contractions come in waves of pain so they will scratch and nest when the contractions are at their worst - it is a pain reaction. Between contractions they will usually pant and shiver. The wanting to go outside a lot is a natural thing, pressure on the bladder etc. BUT do make sure that from about now, you start taking her outside on a lead to go potty or she could dart off into a nice dark spot and you will have trouble getting her out. Carry a towel with you and a torch is a good idea too.

Just found the start of the temps I took for my Stafford litter which was born in November 2009. The vet says these were well timed and trusting my gut was a very good thing. The dam was HUGE and had 9 puppies by c-section on Day 59. 19/11 - Day 56 9.00am - 37.5 20/11 - Day 57 5.30am - 37.7 21/11 - Day 58 Noon - 36.7 7pm - 37.7 By midnight, she was obviously in labour (panting, scratching) but not "seriously". By 5am next morning I was getting concerned so rang the vet. Was there by 8am. C-section at 9. By the time we got in, placentas had started to separate and if I'd left it for another day I would have lost the entire litter and possibly my girl as well.

The temp drop you're looking for won't be a gradual downwards creep. It will be a dramatic drop to (usually) below 37 degrees that you may, or may not be lucky enough to catch. With the current temps, it could be that her normal baseline range of temps is mid to high 37's. So before I'd consider labour to be 12 - 24 hours away I'd be wanting to see around 36.7 - 36.9 degrees or sometimes even lower. You should also take the temp at the minimum first thing in the morning, before exercise and last thing at night, after rest.

My cats are WAY more expensive to feed and provide for than my dogs are!

Well, I would have eaten it otherwise anyway, but I think you'd go further to appeasing those who may not with a lidded basket. Dare I say that even those who have had full-on tongue kisses from a dog, may still find the idea of dog + food somewhat daunting. It's just human nature. My mother is one of those. Her dogs live in the house, sleep on the bed and are fed tidbits from the plates.....BUT actually put a plate down for a tongue wash or find a dog hair in the dish and it might as well be put in the rubbish bin!