ellz

Exactly Papers are better in the hand than chasing a breeder who's phone is disconnected ;) I agree and from his papers we can see who his parents are and that they have been hip scored etc, if you are not given those papers you have no proof of who the parents are etc. Personally i would not leave with the puppy if I didnt have the papers. A GOOD breeder will have already given you a pedigree in lieu of the outstanding registration papers with a promise to forward the papers when they arrived from the controlling body. In addition, you would have had copies of parents hip scores and health testing ALREADY in a folder or booklet and THESE would have been given to a purchaser at the time the puppy left home. For example. My litter of 9 Staffordshire Bull Terrier puppies started leaving home at the age of 10 weeks. Their registration papers were not back from the Tas Canine Association BUT they left home with a 50 page folder full of dietary information, a TEN generation pedigree, photocopies of their parents health tests, their microchipping paperwork and assorted other information. Their papers were forwarded as soon as they arrived back. Does that make me a bad breeder? Or somebody who is deliberately withholding papers or do I hang onto the puppies until 13/14/15 weeks of age and THEN let them go to their new homes with their pedigree papers which are apparently THE most important thing about the puppy? I think not. Because if I hang onto my puppies for that long, the next thing you'll read is the new owner coming onto DOL (or similar forums) with behavioural problems because their puppy is no longer a malleable baby and they are having trouble trying to settle it into its new home. Damned if you do or damned if you don't. How long does it take for the papers to come back???. My puppy was registered on the 31st of March with Dogsvic and the papers were back by the 14th of April when collecting the puppy. That's 14 days on the outside, but you can't get it done in 10 weeks I chose NOT to get it done in 10 weeks. I register everything except what I keep for myself on Limited Registration. They are my puppies and I choose what I keep first. I am in no particular hurry to get it done and as I have already said, ANKC rules say that it can be done up to 18 months of age. Either a puppy purchaser trusts me, or they go somewhere else. Simple as that. Editing to add: And once again, as I have said from a previous thread. If you insist upon just selecting bits and pieces from people's responses, then please do them the courtesy of doing so in context rather than just selecting ONE sentence that appeals to you and ignoring the relevant information from around it. You are being deliberately obtuse and it is very little wonder that your responses receive very little respect from other posters.

One of the benefits of being married to a printer!

Did you mention any of this to her? There isn't much you can do via DogsNSW, they will tell you it is a civil matter. My advice would be to contact Fair Trading and see what they say.

Exactly Papers are better in the hand than chasing a breeder who's phone is disconnected I agree and from his papers we can see who his parents are and that they have been hip scored etc, if you are not given those papers you have no proof of who the parents are etc. Personally i would not leave with the puppy if I didnt have the papers. A GOOD breeder will have already given you a pedigree in lieu of the outstanding registration papers with a promise to forward the papers when they arrived from the controlling body. In addition, you would have had copies of parents hip scores and health testing ALREADY in a folder or booklet and THESE would have been given to a purchaser at the time the puppy left home. For example. My litter of 9 Staffordshire Bull Terrier puppies started leaving home at the age of 10 weeks. Their registration papers were not back from the Tas Canine Association BUT they left home with a 50 page folder full of dietary information, a TEN generation pedigree, photocopies of their parents health tests, their microchipping paperwork and assorted other information. Their papers were forwarded as soon as they arrived back. Does that make me a bad breeder? Or somebody who is deliberately withholding papers or do I hang onto the puppies until 13/14/15 weeks of age and THEN let them go to their new homes with their pedigree papers which are apparently THE most important thing about the puppy? I think not. Because if I hang onto my puppies for that long, the next thing you'll read is the new owner coming onto DOL (or similar forums) with behavioural problems because their puppy is no longer a malleable baby and they are having trouble trying to settle it into its new home. Damned if you do or damned if you don't.

Because BB doesn't WANT an educated response. BB wants to argue. BB knows ALL of the answers. I would hasten a guess that the combined knowledge base in this thread would add up to over a century of experience, yet BB who it would seem is NOT an experienced dog breeder knows more than all of us combined. Ellz, what you are trying to educate me with, is a comfort zone that some breeders fall into that they think is fair practice. I understand why some don't provide papers on collection...........but to cover yourself to help avoid the situation that the OP has raised, witholding final payment from the breeder until the papers arrive and the deal is completed is also fair practice in the circumstances. Naturally the breeders wouldn't like the idea of money being withheld anymore than the owners like chasing their papers for months from breeders too lazy to honour their obligation in a reasonable time. When you have paid the money and upheld your end of the deal, to have to suffer with dramas trying to obtain your papers has got knobs on it and shouldn't happen. BB, the breeders who cause issues for puppy purchasers are thankfully the minority. Why change or complain about a system which really does work well and has done for many years just because there are a few rotten apples in the barrel? Part of the problem is that puppy purchasers do not take more care about selecting the breeders from whom they purchase their puppies, NOT the fact that the papers are not back from the canine controlling body etc.

Because BB doesn't WANT an educated response. BB wants to argue. BB knows ALL of the answers. I would hasten a guess that the combined knowledge base in this thread would add up to over a century of experience, yet BB who it would seem is NOT an experienced dog breeder knows more than all of us combined. Ok, what about people like me? I want to know what's so funny about what was said? I don't know an awful lot about showing, so I'm not sure if everyone's laughing because of the use of the term 'disqualifying fault' or just because of BB's attitude??? It's not you Stormie. It's BB's attitude.

Because BB doesn't WANT an educated response. BB wants to argue. BB knows ALL of the answers. I would hasten a guess that the combined knowledge base in this thread would add up to over a century of experience, yet BB who it would seem is NOT an experienced dog breeder knows more than all of us combined.

Oh dear! :D :D Type....delete......type......delete....... But on the other subject, puppies are registered into the name of the breeder first in Tasmania as well. The breeder then signs them and gives/forwards to the purchaser for re-registration in whichever State that they reside in. Why on earth should I go to the hassle of registering the ENTIRE litter on Limited Registration, then have to write letters and actually apply to have my OWN puppies upgraded to Main Registration at a later date when I can simply hold off on registering the puppies until I decide and then register them all at the one time on whichever register I deem them to be? Besides, under the rules of the ANKC, a breeder has up to 18 months in which to initially register a litter anyway so a breeder is NOT breaking any rules by not handing over registration papers at the time of sale. The ruling is, I believe, that the registration papers should be handed over within 14 days of registration OR sale whichever is first.

And you ladies thought I was joking!

:D Sent it to Rajacadoo-doo-doo too! Isn't it funny what you find stashed away for a "rainy day"?

OT...but....Hounder, did you just get an email from me?

And two blankets make WONDERFUL confetti spread around the backyard and create no end of amusement for the dogs when watching the resident human attempting to mow the lawns without stuffing the lawnmower!

Remember too that even if the test comes back as being DNA clear of HC, there are still all kinds of cataracts that can affect a dog....dietary, environmental and those related to injury. A persistent case of dry eye for example, can cause ulceration which can in turn lead to a cataract.

Some valid points there showdog....BUT....I can tell you how surprised I was to find eye issues with Staffords so very different compared to eye issues with other breeds, for example, Yanks. Mode of inheritance for HC etc is the same, but actual presentation can be somewhat of a surprise.

out of curiousity, why wouldn't you give an SBT marrow bones? or is it for any other dog as well? Personally, I'd say most dogs. They are way too hard and can cause so much damage to teeth.

I should probably say here that I have VERY occasionally had the rare Stafford who is a guts as a puppy but who decides at adolescence that they would simply rather not eat for a while.....right at the point where they start to sprout legs and wings and need it the most so look revolting and half-starved. BUT, it never lasts long! :D

I would say that the "average" Stafford lives to eat, not eats to live!

With a bit of luck, we're looking at the Classic flatchat. Thinking we may go and see the olds at St Helens on the way home and shut them up for a couple more months! :D Miss Primrose is a VERY good little girl. She sleeps when she is meant to, goes to the toilet when she is meant to, doesn't make a mess in her crate and eats well. In fact.....she's better behaved than a certain stripey little man a lot of the time! :p

Yep, I second this! Also twice the snoring!! :D

*snort*

;) And the new puppy arrived safely and incredibly easily with the help of another DOLer! Thank you again wayrod for your excellent service. I'll be recommending you highly to whomever I can!! The new puppy is settling in nicely thank you. She's feeling somewhat overawed by the bouncy Staffords but she is starting to boss them around a bit now so I know she'll be just fine! She's SOOOOOOO cute!

And replied in breeders thread! ;)

Woot woot! :) Told you that belly wasn't just wind!

He kinda liked you too! ;) We all did....you need to come back and visit again soon and stay longer next time! Thank you for my photos....I love them and so does Mr Ellz!!! PS......I haven't wuined him or turned him into a wuss....have I?

Here are a couple of my PD888 special piccies!