ellz

They are certainly characters! :D

Ummmm.....NO

Ask them what colour their rat is. Or if they have a photo. If it WAS their rat, then be honest. You obviously feel badly and there was nothing you could have done to prevent it. I'm not a big believer in telling fibs about things like this. Honesty is the best policy. And yes, I know what you're going through. Some years ago now, two of my Staffords killed a neighbour's cat in our backyard. The cat used to always sit on the fence, teasing the dogs and this one afternoon, it forgot to leave the long, fluffy dangly bit (it's beautiful plumed tail) on the OUTSIDE of the fence. One of my pair took advantage of the window of opportunity, grabbed the tail and pulled and the poor cat didn't have a hope. I was just coming around the side of the house with a basket of washing in time to witness it (thank doG the kids weren't there) but wasn't quick enough to save it. I went and knocked on the neighbour's door and told them what had happened. Naturally they weren't very happy but they did admit that the cat hadn't helped itself much. Incident passed, neighbourly relations remained intact and I didn't have to remember a lie.

The ANKC for one......(although they don't specifically use the word "unethical" but given that the following appears in the Breeders' Code of Ethics then a reasonable assumption could be made IMO). 11. A member shall breed primarily for the purpose of improving the quality and / or working ability of the breed in accordance with the breed standard, and not specifically for the pet or commercial market.

Yes I found it. :D :D :D And just like the disqualified colours thread, you can google and find whatever you want, whether in context or not. You just need to copy and paste the right bits!

It may be your image, but it is the skill of the photographer which is being sold....not you or your dog. snap ellz i just said the same thing :D So they get paid for pushing a button on a camera and I don't get paid for them using my image? By your logic I guess models don't get paid as it is what the photographer does that is important? Oranges and apples I'm afraid. A model is EMPLOYED to have photographs taken of them. The PHOTOGRAPHER is still paid to take the photographs. If the same photographer contacted you and specifically CONTRACTED you and your dog to MODEL, then yes, you'd be paid too but wouldn't necessarily get royalties. A professional photographer is contracted by a client to take photographs and is paid. The photographer doesn't then pay the client for the photos does he? If the client wants copies from the proofsheet, then THEY pay for copies, but they never get the negatives unless they are purchased and usually only then by special arrangement with the photographer. It can be very confusing but is actually relatively straight forward once you have had things explained to you properly and have a little bit of an undestanding about copyright law.

Since when has breeding to the recognised breed standard been identical to "breeding for show"? :D Since when has it been considered "not the done thing" for ethical breeders and exhibitors to love their dogs? Many show dogs ARE pets most of the time. Most ethically bred registered pups will spend their entire lives as pets. That doesn't mean that their breeders wanted to take short cuts to make some money on the side. I really don't understand your logic asal. :D Why should "pet" buyers have to settle for shoddily bred dogs anyway? There are more show quality Ellz American Cocker or Stafford pets running around than there are pet quality Ellz American Cocker or Stafford show dogs I can assure you!! This is a show dog....hmmm.....he certainly THINKS he's a pet! There are probably way too many "real" pets who don't live as good a life as this show dog does!

It may be your image, but it is the skill of the photographer which is being sold....not you or your dog.

Because it is essentially counter-productive. We as breeders are supposed to breed TO the standard, FOR the standard and with the betterment of the breed in mind. Taking two dogs, simply because they are dilutes, and breeding them isn't going to satisfy the ethics of the responsible breeder when to date, dilutes cannot fit the breed standard. According to the ANKC Code of Ethics, breeders must NOT breed for the pet market or any other commercial purpose. Doesn't of course mean that it doesn't happen, but I for one will not be sacrificing the health of my dogs and taking the risks associated with a litter lightly enough to JUST satisfy the pet market. I breed when I want something for MYSELF. I breed to keep not to sell....BUT....it just happens that unless I have a very small litter, I will normally have a few very GOOD quality puppies left over for placing in suitably qualified pet homes. Some of these may be better quality and better SHOW prospects than the supposed show prospects bred by other breeders, but that doesn't mean that I want them in the show ring though. I just don't intend to ever breed ONLY for the pet market and I certainly don't want to breed with an aim in mind to breed something that might be sought after as pets when it has no place EVER in my future plans for breeding and/or showing. think i can see your difficulty. only breed for show. so can be seen to be ethical. soo you cant let anyone realise you actually like your dogs and treat of feel they are pets or run the risk of by association with having any as a pet and therefore unethical? its hard isnt it? Ummmm...asal....I'm sorry but I really don't get your drift. :D

I take photos of everything and anybody. At dog shows, I take photos of just dogs and photos of dogs and their handlers. I do post some in various places like facebook, but if somebody contacts me and asks me to remove the photos, then I do. I tend not to post a lot of photos of my own children on facebook and forums so am mindful of not posting photographs of other children on those places UNLESS I have the permission of their parents or unless the child's face is not easily identifiable. As for me, I've found that the BEST photos of me have been taken without my knowledge and if somebody found me interesting, unusual, ugly or attractive enough to take photos of, I really don't care. And if somebody wants to take photos of my dogs...then go for it...you might take better shots than I do anyway! :D

SNAP to Poodlefan! :D

Because it is essentially counter-productive. We as breeders are supposed to breed TO the standard, FOR the standard and with the betterment of the breed in mind. Taking two dogs, simply because they are dilutes, and breeding them isn't going to satisfy the ethics of the responsible breeder when to date, dilutes cannot fit the breed standard. According to the ANKC Code of Ethics, breeders must NOT breed for the pet market or any other commercial purpose. Doesn't of course mean that it doesn't happen, but I for one will not be sacrificing the health of my dogs and taking the risks associated with a litter lightly enough to JUST satisfy the pet market. I breed when I want something for MYSELF. I breed to keep not to sell....BUT....it just happens that unless I have a very small litter, I will normally have a few very GOOD quality puppies left over for placing in suitably qualified pet homes. Some of these may be better quality and better SHOW prospects than the supposed show prospects bred by other breeders, but that doesn't mean that I want them in the show ring though. I just don't intend to ever breed ONLY for the pet market and I certainly don't want to breed with an aim in mind to breed something that might be sought after as pets when it has no place EVER in my future plans for breeding and/or showing.

Ain't that the truth! Ask most breeders, even here in Australia where the breed (thankfully) doesn't have the same fanbase and I think without exception most will tell you that it is a "heartbreak breed". There are two sides to the coin when it comes to breeding them. Sometimes you curse the limited gene pool in Australia because there isn't enough genetic diversity to breed away from some of the issues. But then when it comes to importing new lines, you have the problem of introducing the unknown which may, or may not be, a better option than the devil you already know! As much as I adore the breed, and have been involved with it since 1986, my days in it are now, for the last time well and truly numbered. Although I'm sad, I'm actually kind of breeding a sigh of relief in many ways.

He would have been put on Limited Registration and sold to a suitable companion home. Once I decide where I stand on juvenile desexing, then this may also be done....but not at present. Teeth and jaw problems can be a real nuisance because in many cases, there isn't a lot that can be done until the 2nd teeth come in and the jaw settles. That's one of the reasons many breeders will not guarantee a mouth in a baby puppy show prospect...they can move so much during development and can LITERALLY become a bad bite overnight. EXACTLY. but your lucky you are not in nsw, I was hesitant to sell on MR for showing, told the person, there is no way you can accurately assssess an 8 week old pup and that the selection was entirly their choice, since i knew from expierence i have discovered the pet i sold has ended up the best instead of the "pick" I kept, can i go back to the pet buyer and say I made a mistake you have to give me back their pup and take the second grade, i made a mistake and this is the pet pup? interesting isnt it? I cant do that, i HAVE to live with my mistake and either keep mr or mrs second grade or rehome the now pet pup. yet the buyer can say, I think this pup is the quality i want, then accuse you of being unethical when the little bugger does the same thing to them as your pick did to you. its a totaly weird world... why cant the breeder demand an exchange when its the other way around????? fellow exhibitors told the lady with the dog she bought that MR is a guarantee of show quality and demand a return, even friends advised me take it back. so the buyer today takes no responsibility for their choices around here anyway, even in that case had already told the breeder they were expienced with how puppys can change and was prepared to accept it on that condition. once it stopped winning all bets were off. very different mindset now. the breeder is responsible regardless, so forseeing the future should be another talent any aspiring breeder needs to have among their accomplishments , one, who told the owner of the pup, mr is a guarantee of show quality, advised me to never sell a pup on mr unless its already has its adult teeth through. as you said . so right. I now understand why so few will mr now. Immaterial whether you live in NSW or any other state. The rules still apply and there are still no guarantees that a show "prospect" puppy will turn out as definitely show "quality". There is a HUGE difference between the two and a breeder who sells a baby puppy as definite show quality needs their head read! That is where a written agreement can help. Whilst not necessarily enforceable in a court of law, it will still show that the purchaser clearly understands that what they have purchased may not turn out to be definite show quality. And likewise, the agreement should set out what the breeder can/will do if the puppy doesn't turn out. One of the major reasons I rarely place puppies in a show situation now is because of the unreal expectations of some purchasers. You purchase a SHOW QUALITY puppy at the age of 8 weeks and you take your chances like anybody else because the old crystal ball is out of charge and I can't buy batteries for it any more!

Thank you all, Tia (the grey) is a 2yo and Pai (the bay) is a yearling.

Or if you can't locate one, you could always use a snood.

Unfortunately, it can also be passed on from dog to dog via the hands of a human. One of the reasons that even if a dog isn't coughing at a show, it can still be guilty of passing on the bug....via the judge who hasn't washed their hands often enough.

And as another anecdote, I had a maiden bitch start nesting, panting etc but not with real determination almost a week before she actually whelped. No signs of distress, still eating, cervix closed, puppies not presenting and everything normal except that she was a drama queen and apparently wanted to drag things out a bit.

*sigh* Another thread to stay out of. Was fun whilst it lasted! :D

There are more in my other thread. I had to break them up, the forum was having a fit!

Just another day on the funny farm....

Horse play... Girls will be girls, no matter what the species..... What could I call this but........arrogance? More hooning....nice bit of tail action going on.... Watching you..... Just watching....... PS....not making any claims about photographic competence, picture clarity, focus, camera quality or anything else....just sharing the fun photos that I took when I was out playing with my fillies.

GAME ON!!! This is my serious face and I'm not afraid to use it... And they're OFF!! Greyhound led the pack until they started up the hill and the girls caught him very quickly.... Kissing cousins..... Ouch! Take THAT!!! A bit of dignity ploooise.... Hooning... ABORT! ABORT! ABORT!

Sable/white American Cocker Spaniel - Can Ch Begays Color Me Badd.

He would have been put on Limited Registration and sold to a suitable companion home. Once I decide where I stand on juvenile desexing, then this may also be done....but not at present. Teeth and jaw problems can be a real nuisance because in many cases, there isn't a lot that can be done until the 2nd teeth come in and the jaw settles. That's one of the reasons many breeders will not guarantee a mouth in a baby puppy show prospect...they can move so much during development and can LITERALLY become a bad bite overnight.