ellz

At least you've managed to get your money's worth. The vast majority of the 6 - 8 week checks that most vets have given MY puppies in the past 20 years have been limited to a pat on the head, look in the mouth and/or ears (not usually both) and a fiddle between the legs in the case of a boy. THIS is where part of my difficulty in paying for a "consultation" comes about..... And before you all jump up and down and tell me to find a new vet.......I AM TRYING!

LOL..part of the reason I took a couple of years "time out" from the dog world. It's like banging your head on a brick wall. It feels DAMNED good when you stop!!! I never do seem to be able to take shortcuts on dog expenses, no matter how much I set out to try and do so. Seems to me that those who seem to breed heaps and/or make money on their litters either have secrets they aren't sharing or are doing the wrong thing by their dogs.....but they sure ain't sharing!! :mad

Lablover, no need for me to settle down...you haven't seen me riled yet!! I wouldn't mind a Drontal friend...that's another bone of contention but no real substitute found for those expenses yet!! Max, might just have to take a drive up to your part of the world when it is time for vax etc. Even the cost of petrol would not compare with the costs compared to vaccinating 5 puppies (and would be a bloody good excuse anyway!).

BTW, FWIW, before you all start labelling me as a revolutionary who mistreats her dogs. I will still pay whatever price it costs me to have my new litter vaccinated/checked etc....BUT.....that doesn't stop me from wondering if things couldn't be done differently and if so ..... how? And....the "average" pet owner is precisely why I don't and have never bred as much as I could have or wanted to. The "average" pet owner doesn't deserve to have children OR pets!!

Yes, but that's YOU. What about all of the other people who think nothing of signing an agreement, agreeing to take the puppy to the vet within 48 hours and don't? Or what about those people who don't even bother to have any further vaccinations done after that first one? I agree fully about vet checks, that is why I am questioning the validity of charging X dollars for a vet check and then another X dollars for a vaccination, yet a combined price of another X dollars which doesn't equate? And FWIW, after 20 years of breeding I think I know what a "proper" vet check should consist of. And I have to say, that in the majority of cases, this has most certainly NOT been done at the time of vaccination by ANY vet!!! Exactly why many people learn how to service their own cars!

Before my other vet "crossed over", I could never understand how he could charge me (and I presume other breeders) just $22 per puppy, yet other vets were charging $50 plus for the same thing? Wish I could ask him! LOL I'll certainly do some ringing around to find out which vet the greyhound people use. Would be useful if nothing else. I'm thinking of drafting up a form which I can send to the major vets in this area to place on my website to help others to decide which vets to use for which procedures. I've always "shopped around" depending upon my needs and I have always made it clear to the vets that I am not one for exclusivity. Some were used for vaccinations, some for different preventative medicine, others for spey/neuters etc. Much in the same fashion that we humans use GPs vs Specialists. PS...I do enjoy these threads. If I should come across as dogmatic or argumentative, I apologise in advance.

Let me clarify here, I am not for ONE minute suggesting that we go "against the law". I am not advocating necessarily the ready availability of live vaccines. HOWEVER, killed are available and appear to not be used. Why not? As to the question of laying blame. I've not been one who readily does that anyway, whether it concerns an animal or even one of my own children. Shit happens is a term which springs to mind here. Face it, vaccination (or many medicines for that matter) is treated as a "one size fits all" thing. You give the same amount of vaccine to a chihuahua as you do to a Great Dane. You cannot convince me that the immune system is the same in both. Some people react to some foods, some don't. Some people suffer allergic reactions to cosmetics or cleaning products, some don't. It's sad that society today has degenerated to a sue me, sue you one. On the subject of examinations vs vaccinations. One surgery I spoke to charge just $15 for a "bill of health" examination. They charge $35 for vaccination ONLY. Yet for a puppy vaccination and examination, they are charging $55....and that is just for the basic DHP. If I vaccinated myself ($7.50 for the vaccine) and took the puppy to the vet separately for the health examination, my calculation makes it under $30 for the whole thing. So how can they justify their particular profit margin, especially given we are talking of say 5 puppies?? Even full price for the first with a hefty discount after that will still generate some profit?

True fifi, I'm all for having the puppies examined. BUT, I have also noticed that many vets don't bother to do much more than a cursory examination and STILL charge an arm and a leg for it. In fact, in my experience (and I'm talking 20 years here), it is actually cheaper to take a puppy for a general checkover seperately to having shots done. That should NOT be the case. And the other thing that I wonder about is microchipping. Here in Tasmania, it is compulsory as of October this year to have all dogs which are in a breeding program already and any puppy which is to be registered, microchipped. This in itself doesn't necessarily concern me, it is something which I have been doing anyway. BUT, when you add examination + vaccination + microchipping, it is NOT a cheap exercise by any stretch of the imagination. I'm all for cutting costs wherever possible. HOWEVER, this does NOT mean that I will compromise on quality of care.

I must confess that there is a little "self interest" in my question/s. I hadn't bred a litter for a few years and vaccination was expensive enough THEN, although I did find a vet (no longer around) who was happy to offer breeder discounts. As it had been such a long time "between drinks" I thought I would do a ring-around of the vets here to compare vaccination prices and was quite frankly shocked by the responses. I'm sorry, but given that the vaccine itself only costs a few dollars per dose, you can't convince me that an examination of each puppy AND vaccine could possibly justify costs of upwards of $50 PER puppy and that is just for the old DHP and not including Bordatella (Kennel Cough) or Corona Virus. I've known about the cat people self-vaccinating for some time and one of them pointed me in the direction of Vet Direct Express who send her all of her vaccines in a dinky little foam cooler by Express Post. She has her own printed vax/health certificates and these appear to be accepted by many vets etc. I have been advised that legally, only "killed" vaccines are allowed to be self-administered but I'm on Diane's side here....why? Heck, it's not like you're going to go around and give everybody a parvo shot is it? I appreciate the problems that the weight-lifting world has had with anabolic steroids but that is a LONG way removed from DHP and Kennel Cough!! I am not sure what the status of self-administered vaccinations would be with "official" bodies. I have a feeling that you cannot purchase the Kennel Cough component of the vaccination without a veterinary licence. Therefore this would count out a lot of places like kennels etc (but check with them individually anyway) but I believe that "homeopathic" disease controls are accepted by some as well so it is kind of a moot point. Either way, I still wonder how many puppy people even bother to take their dog to the vet for the full course of needles and whether or not another method would be workable. I'm all for trying it anyway! And I'm lucky in that I do have access to a boarding kennel (if necessary) who is a personal friend and who shares my view of "veterinary profiteering" as she is a breeder herself. And on that note, I am NOT bashing vets. They are highly educated and highly necessary (and after all it is MUCH harder to get into veterinary school than it is to get into human medicine) but there are some things that you don't have to have a degree to know and I stil believe that although a dog breeder of many years experience mightn't have the piece of paper that says so...sometimes real life experience far outweighs the book learning of younger vets!

For many years, cat breeder friends of mine have been doing their own vaccinations and issuing their own health records showing details of such (and including the sticky label from the ampoule as evidence). Does anybody have any thoughts about doing this for their dogs? My experience is that except on rare occasions, puppy people don't tend to follow up with their veterinarians and continue a full "course" of vaccinations. So would you consider doing your own vaccinations with vaccines purchased from an online Vet Supplier? I know that the cat people do not used live vaccine so are allowed to self-vaccinate by law. So I guess the next question would be...would you give consideration to vaccination with killed vaccine instead of live? Enquiring minds wanna know!

That is actually the Blue Power remedy that I have posted frequently on this forum with the usage of White Vinegar and Betadine in place of Gentian Violet.

I'm afraid I just cannot comprehend somebody who takes on a dog from a Rescue Organisation and then will not provide that dog with WHATEVER it needs to make the rest of its life comfortable. Heck, I'm the sucker who imported a 7 year old American Cocker stud dog from the USA, knowing he'd never been eye or hip tested in his life but promising to give him the VERY best of everything to make up to him for the sh*tty life he'd already led in the USA. I won't even go into how much my bleeding heart episode cost me, but he was worth EVERY cent. I had him OFA'd in Hawaii en route and his eyes were done for the first time in his LIFE and I made a vow that even if he'd been blind and dysplastic there was no way he was NOT coming. I'm no millionaire but EVERYTHING I have goes towards the comfort of my kids and animals (and not necessarily always in that order either). I'm simply appalled and I think this has given me yet another clause to add to my sales agreement and/or initial Questionnaire and if I had anything to do with GD Rescue, I would certainly give MAJOR (unfavourable) consideration to any attempt by these people to adopt anything else in the future!

As the owners obviously don't care about the ongoing welfare and comfort of the dog I would take him to the vet, at their expense and have the consult done and if an operation is necessary, I would be returning him to whichever Rescue organisation he came from in the first place. Doesn't sound as though the current owners would mind if they are going to have him euthanised anyway. I'm sorry, but it doesn't sound as though the owners are as nice people as you'd originally painted them and I for one do not consider their actions humane OR caring. That dog is best off with someone who truly cares!

t-time, Gentian Violet is not available anywhere in Australia now unless it is mixed up by a chemist (the formula is readily available if you Google it and most chemists should be able to mix it). It doesn't really matter how old Gentian Violet is, so if your mother did have some stashed away, provided it hasn't evaporated ;) it would probably still be ok. I have my original bottle which was sent by a friend in the USA a few years ago now and still have enough for quite a few years worth of Blue Power. Another friend of mine has had her bottle for nearly 10 years and it is apparently showing no degradation in quality. So you might just be in luck. PM me if you'd like me to send the BP information in another method.

With all due respect, Anne, if you are going to quote, it is probably best to quote the ENTIRE sentence so as to retain context.

Marrow bones are VERY hard indeed. They are usually the "long bones" from the cow, ie thigh, so are designed for weight bearing. My Rottweiler can usually demolish his half of the bone (split down the centre by the butcher with his saw - THAT'S how hard they are!!) in a day but it takes him ALL day gnawing pretty steadily.

Everything in moderation is my motto! ;) Firstly, I don't think I'd pay much credence to the bones causing cancer argument. Think about dogs in the wild. I daresay very few of them died from cancer or cancer-related ailments and they would have pretty much existed on the bones of their prey. As far as the size of bones are concerned, I judge how big a bone should be for a dog by the size of the dog vs the size of the bone. For example, my Rottweiler and my Staffordshire Bull Terrier simply LOVE the marrow bones which I get from my butcher....standing order every Friday, one marrow bone sliced down the centre. BUT, my American Cockers can't even lift the darned things let alone chew them, so they stick with the chicken wings and necks and are quite content (as are the cats who get the chicken products as well). I do also buy chicken frames (carcasses) whenever they are available and ALL of them crunch those nicely. When I have puppies around, they too get chicken necks, but chopped up much smaller because once they get the taste, they tend to just gulp them down without even giving consideration to what teeth are for...and the chicken wings get "tipped" and the puppies get the tips. Don't want to risk choking. It is unusual that a raw chicken bone will splinter, however, whilst quite rare (normally they are digested very quickly) it isn't unheard of for them to actually bend, get swallowed and then unbend, causing blockages. Cooked bones of ANY kind are definitely OUT OUT OUT!!!!! ESPECIALLY the bone from the Sunday roast and chop bones. The roast bone can splinter very easily and chop bones tend to be very sharp and can do untold damage on the way down!! It is also not a good idea to give dogs the leftover ham bone at Santa-time, ham is heavily treated and the chemicals tend to leech into the bone. AND rawhide bones should be supervised carefully too. Once they're small and soggy, they should be repossessed or they could get stuck and cause choking. All sorts of don'ts, but safety is paramount!

Unfortunately, you need to mix it yourself. Which is probably better anyway because if you're like me, you like to be sure what is in it. Sometimes I wonder about pre-mixed things....everything from food to grooming spray (especially when there is a concentrate available!!). If you have a source in the USA (or the UK I think and possibly even New Zealand), they can post the Gentian Violet ready made and very cheap (my last bottle is nearly 3 years old and it only cost a dollar something at a drug store in the US). Otherwise, you might have to Google it and get the ingredients which most chemists can then prepare for you. Good luck. It's not the answer to everything, but I've seen (and heard about) some pretty hopeless cases which have turned the corner after using BP.

No mention of punctuation from me, but yes, you did use bold and capitals together...in the same sentence anyway but it didn't come across as being bolded in the quote. I may use capitals for the occasional word as emphasis but any more than that could conceviably be seen as shouting. Whatever. Yes, as I have already agreed....(you really should try and read other people's posts Anne, you never know you might learn something!)....they should see a vet with the dog prior to commencing Blue Power or any OTHER treatment. Many vets have not heard of Blue Power so it is sometimes even worth printing it out and taking it with you. Some will not agree with it, some will. Veterinary Science, like many others is not an exact science. With all due respect, people are ENTITLED to respond to what they might see as criticism, especially when it is not clear to whom another party is replying. Whatever the case, what I AM seeing is a) someone who doesn't read all contributions to a thread, so is unable to see where somebody has responded in a certain manner and then makes unfair comment incorrectly and b) someone who is obviously passionate about what they do but doesn't perhaps wish to admit that there are other equally passionate people out there who may perhaps know what they are talking about as well, even if it is different. I could go a lot further, but I won't. Contact me privately if you would like to pursue the "debate" any further. I've never backed down from defending myself yet. ;)

Here you go Anne...just for you...see...capital letters!!

Malaseb has its uses. I have used it on a Staffordshire Bull Terrier who suffered terribly from yeast infections everywhere from between her toes to inside her ears. Poor little soul used to scratch herself raw and lick and chew endlessly. We started with the diet approach which at least reduced the severity. Following that she had an ear ablation and we started Malaseb treatments. Within 3 weeks of the ablation her ears were again a stinking, itchy, raw mess. Another ablation and then I started the Blue Power treatment and within another 3 weeks, the ears were pink, clean and above all else - DRY! The vet thinks it was probably being unable to dry the ear completely with the Malaseb in it that agravated the problem. The alcohol in Blue Power, despite being a touch uncomfortable (but much better if the solution is warmed slightly) dried the ear effectively thereby ceasing the warm, wet environment that the bacteria were breeding in. On the other side of the coin, another Stafford had a grass seed embed itself in the bottom of her ear. Following the surgery to remove it, Malaseb was used and it was successful. I do have Malaseb on hand but find it mainly useful for bathing. For routine ear cleaning (and I have American Cockers) the Blue Power is brilliant but I have to keep reminding myself that it IS purple and it DOES stain. But then again, it does add pretty purple spots to the various coloured dog hair and I do like the colour purple! :rolleyes:

No, but if you had read ALL of my posts you would see where I replied directly to the OP who stated that they were going to consult THEIR vet with a :rolleyes: ! Why re-invent the wheel? Perhaps I should have used the quote system, but rather than cut and paste pretty much the entire post, I chose to just respond to it. My bad, obviously. I do wish to say that your particular emphasis on words and the manner in which it was written did give me the impression that you were being somewhat "lordy" (a term my 7 year old uses frequently). Given that you used no punctuation other than bolding and "shouting" (ie capital letters) that could give one this impression, I feel my reply is justified. I honestly did feel that you were "talking down" and as you had responded to the subject of my post, I also feel justified in thinking that it WAS me you were responding to! Now back to the subject at hand....I too have had dogs with ulcerated ears, hence my reply to the initial post. I also suggested that people read the ENTIRE website at the URL given. There are some VERY good ideas there (and some excellent links as well) in addition to the Blue Power which I STILL swear by and which in fact one of my vets tried as a "last resort" on a rescue dog and saw incredible results. And yes, the site DOES instruct consulting with a vet so again, why re-invent the wheel? A couple of things I would like to say about the Blue Power treatment is that firstly, the gentian violet is not easily obtained here but can be readily obtained in other parts of the world very inexpensively. I do have a "recipe" for the product which a chemist should be able to whip up for a fee and that is readily obtained by doing a search for Australian websites and "gentian violet". Secondly, to bad ears, alcohol stings no worse than ANY other product which is one of the reasons it is also suggested to warm ANY product that is put in the ear. Sometimes, the treatment can be worse than the affliction (ask any person who has undergone chemotherapy or radiation therapy) but the short sharp results given by the treatment can often outweigh the initial discomfort (and my vet has long lectured me on this subject as well). The beauty of alcohol is that it has a drying effect as it evaporates and can therefore help to dry ears which have become constantly sodden with infection OR product. And in "novice" hands, alcohol can ultimately cause far less damage if placed in the ears and not cleaned out properly, especially in the long-coated, long-eared varieties of dog. The alcohol can be exchanged for witchhazel which funnily enough, although supposedly calming, stings just as much! There is no right or wrong way, it is the end result which matters. And I would STILL be evaluating the dogs diet and even the living quarters. Sometimes, things which make our world comfortable, pretty and clean for us are just not compatible with the needs of animals which are intolerant to them. Foods, synthetic fabrics for bedding, things which make the air smell nice, things which help to clean surfaces and even an environment which is too warm can all contribute to allergies and intolerances.

Hello...did anybody say NOT to? Did you not read my other post where I agreed with everything everybody else said but just asked that the site at least be LOOKED at?? Sheesh! Must be a long way to the ground from some of the high horses on this forum!

Good on you. :rolleyes: But please, DO check out the website I suggested and the Blue Power remedy. There are some real miracle success stories attributed to the formula and I swear by it myself as well.

SEE!!! It works!!!