ellz

I didn't for one minute say that I would show no interest (you make a lot of assumptions), OR that they wouldn't be cared for as well as any other puppy in a litter, but the chances of them appearing with the lines that I am using now are virtually nil and if one DID appear, as I said, it would be pethomed immediately it was old enough and that would be the end of that. My involvement as a breeder would be no less. They would still be wormed, microchipped, vaccinated, vet checked and as much care (if not more) put into selecting a suitable home for them and they would still receive my support 24/7 for life...EVERY person who breeds a litter of puppies ethically should provide no less. HOWEVER, as a "serious" breeder and exhibitor, blues have absolutely NO value to me because they are simply INCORRECT based upon the standard which we must adhere to.

Gee talk about getting hung up on semantics people. Have already made a comment, no need to keep on about it. I don't like blues. I will NEVER own a blue whilst my feet point to the ground and to be honest, if ever one popped into my whelping box, I'd more than likely give it away unregistered so as to save myself embarrassment later on. You're all more than welcome to not like my opinion, that is your right. And yes, they can pop up anywhere the two recessives decide to play hokey pokey in a pedigree. A dog sired by a bitch that I bred sired a litter containing blue in WA. I have no idea if it is any good, I haven't bothered finding out because it really doesn't interest me enough. Eileen, WnH...there has been plenty written on DOL about health issues associated with blue colouration.

Sadly, not at all strange. All too common.

I'm not a blue fan myself (with any breed), but I think calling them 'vermin' is a bit harsh, especially when quite a few people on here have them as loving companions. I am aware that there are many sweet dogs that are an unfortunate colour, but from a BREEDING and EXHIBITING point of view, they ARE vermin. And I don't state that they don't make good pets, simply that they should NOT be bred from with such gay abandon and that anybody who is doing so is not doing so for the right reasons.

Actually, I don't agree. There are MANY quality dilutes around which are readily appreciated even if people don't particularly like dilutes. There are however NO blue Staffords that I could honestly look at and say that I would like to own it, or would admit to having bred it. There are also health issues that can be attribute to the blue genes. Editing to add: There are actually very FEW reputable, responsible Stafford breeders who are trying to breed quality blues. Simply because under the breed standard, they don't fit. The standard calls for black pigment. Blue Staffords CANNOT have black pigment. Simple as that. Anybody making a practice of breeding blue isn't in it to improve the quality, they are in it for the $$$$$. And likewise with the likening of breeding Staffords to other coloured dogs in various breeds, most other breed standards actually make allowances for dilutes and recessives by offering alternative pigmentation colours, the American Cocker is one of these, but the Stafford DOES NOT!!

It's more in the ethics. Blues can (and do) pop up in the best of families. BUT the reputable and responsible breeder treats them like the vermin that they are and deals with them accordingly by a) identifying where they came from and trying NOT to do it again OR b) by indentifying where they came from and perhaps trying to do it better but most importantly c) by not encouraging shonky practitioners who see $$$ signs and want to capitalise on the stupidity of the Joe Q's who think they might be able to make a quick buck from something that is not so much rare as reviled.

Don't worry, people STILL want reds. With the exception of people who have either a) obviously read my puppy notices in various places or b) gotten my number from the TCA, Inc....everybody, and I'm talking 100% of prospective purchasers wants red (tan as they call it) bitches.

I learned how to tube feed many years ago when handrearing a single c-section puppy whose mother had NO milk and no mothering instinct whatsoever. I did find it daunting at first, but it became really easy after that and it is amazing how quickly a puppy will put on weight when they don't have to wear themselves out sucking to do so. My recent Yank litter was the first time I had had to tube in over 10 years and muscle memory worked a treat. First time I was a bit nervous but after that....easy. Those who say that puppies which are tubed have no sucking instinct obviously haven't seen puppies that literally suck the tube in when you're inserting it. I've had puppies still make sucking movement with their mouths even when I'm syringing the formula in and without exception, even the little weak ones still paddle with their front feet as though they're at the milkbar. And I also believe that the neurological stimulation that a puppy gets from the breeder during tubing is good for temperament development. The girl I recently had euthanased at 3 weeks of age was tube fed for 2 weeks. Do I regret it? No. Would I do it again under the same circumstances? Yes. Why? Because at no time did her own mother give up on her. Had the bitch rejected her, that would have been a completely different thing but whilst mum was fighting for her and mothering her, cleaning her, stimulating her.....so was I. I will no longer argue with a bitch. If the bitch continually pushes a puppy away or ignores it, then my gut instinct tells me that she knows something that I don't. On the other hand, my Stafford bitch has her 4.5week old litter of 9. Not even a hint of a problem with supply....if she had had more boobs she could have probably fed a few more puppies. I haven't had to top a single one up, just watch the distribution at the milkbar and plug one or two in a little more often when the other piglets had fallen into milk comas. I did start offering them a little mince at 3 weeks, but they were more than ready and took to it like.......puppies to mince! ;)

Here in Hobart, my usual vet charged me $75 for the confirmation u/s and $85 for the count xray. Another vet I rang wanted $130 for the confirmation u/s if performed by a staff vet and $220 if performed by a "specialist" on the same equipment. They then wanted $175 for a count xray if done by a staff vet and $290 if performed by a "specialist".

Hey, I'm not saying I do or that I am going to. But the subject has arisen on a couple of email lists lately as well as on a cat forum and a horse forum so I thought I would broach the question here. And apparently it isn't as isolated as one would think if the responses here and the ones I have received privately are any indication. Editing to add: The vet I use for vaccinations also does a routine fecal smear for worms. NO other vet I have ever been to does that routinely when checking puppies over. And no, I wouldn't take my puppies to a vet who doesn't give a full once over during vaccinations, skin, coat, eyes, ears, heart, testicles etc. But yes, sadly there are vets who do breeder vaccinations at a "discounted" rate and seem to think it then follows that they give discounted service as well.

That of course is assuming that the vet DOES a vet check when vaccinating. Sadly, I know of many who don't.

It is a common thing in the cat and horse show and breeding worlds to self-administer vaccinations. Does anybody here do that or has anybody ever been tempted to do so? Obviously you cannot access Hepatitis or Distemper Vaccines but it is possible to purchase Canine Cough and Parvo vaccines privately. Would you?

Guys, I didn't write it. Sorry it didn't have an author when it was sent to me but I thought it so relevant I couldn't resist putting it on here. I started looking for somebody to acknowledge but have the throat from hell again so went to bed instead. More anti-b's for me. Lovely timing as usual. Funny how in General there are a couple of responses demonstrating why somebody would feel the need to write it in the first place!

Speaking for myself, on the rare occasions I have broken even or ended up with a profit (however big or small), I've felt guilty because it seems that people think that if you manage to come out without finding yourself in the red, you have taken shortcuts. This litter of 9 that I have here currently will be the first that I'll have actually made anything even resembling a "decent" profit and it won't even be as large is it could have been when I take into account: a) stud fee b) ultrasound, xray and pre-whelping medical costs and supplementary feeding c) after hours c-section d) feeding 9 hungry hippos e) vaccinations f) microchipping g) vaccinations and worming (added twice because they're staying until 12 weeks) h) registration with TCA Inc. The vax and chips alone are going to set me back in the vicinity of $600. Thankfully, I didn't end up having to pay transport costs to and from the stud dog in Melbourne, but if I had, that would have been another almost $800. And no, I'm not complaining. The above is just what is necessary. But if I had only had a litter of say 4, then I would have been well and truly in the red. And considering that I am going to keep 2, possibly 3 of the litter....there still won't be a huge profit margin! I WILL make a profit, and I'm pleased and I'm expecting brickbats from the purists. But heck, I daresay there are many who would be envious! And then on the other hand, there is my American Cocker litter. One puppy survived. I own sire and dam. Vets bills on day 1. Euthanasia at 3 weeks. Feeding, vaccination, microchipping, registration etc. Definitely in the hole on this one. Mr Ellz complaining but I got a nice little bitch out of it so the cycle will continue!

You may have better results if you STOP her from seeing out.

I am a breeder..... My food receipts for a family of 7 and my dog food bills match My water bill has doubled My electricity bill has tripled It is I, a breeder, who when my fridge quit, saved the dog meds and let the food go bad. My feet find the way to the kennel before I have even grabbed a cup of coffee in the morning and the kennel is my last stop before bed. While my friends are on a cruise to the Bahamas and My family meets for Christmas while I am home delivering puppies I haven't had a real vacation in 7 years, but maybe soon. All plans are made around heat dates, whelp dates and vet dates. I shower and 10 minutes later my grand kids say I smell like a dog My clothes are all stained with fecal matter, urine, afterbirth or bleach I have to remember to clean my shoes before church Most of my friends breed dogs Who else can you call at 3 am for support? Who else has the experience I sometimes need, the med I sometimes need, or just an uplifting word I sometimes need? Who else would understand how it feels to have invested hours and hours and hours in a weak puppy to lose it? Or the joy in investing hours in one that lives? I have slept on the floor beside a litter until the crucial 2 weeks have passed. I have bottle fed a litter of 12 .. feeding every 2 hours and it taking 90 minutes to do for weeks at a time. I have learned to be proficient at micro chipping, vaccinations, fluids, bottle feeding and tube feeding. My vet knows me by first name The vet knows my children by name The vet now knows my grand children by name My vet knows it was I who added on the wing to the vet clinic I am a breeder It is to me that 63 days takes on new meaning still excited by every new life It is I who delivers all my pups, towels and heat lamps on ready - happiness and sadness sometimes intermingled - Even though it increases my work load, I look forward to the 10 day stage when eyes open, and puppies begin to emerge from the helplessness of newborns. Puppy breath, a first bark. and a heart of exploration. I am not uneducated, unemployable, illiterate or lazy as some Animal Rights folks would imply of breeders. I am a conscientious lover of animals and I have found my niche. I am a breeder. And although I feel no shame there is a part of me that feels the need to hide from powers that could come to invade my home and take my dogs .. maybe for .. finding a mild infraction, .. a leaf in the water dish .. a kennel not yet cleaned for the day yet .. a rash I am home treating? I tell my children and grand children to hush, do not tell others we are dog breeders, and I wonder when did breeding puppies go into the same secret place as criminal activity? I am a breeder and I am not cruel, dumb, uncaring or criminal. I am not raking in money while sitting on my butt. Every penny I make I earn through blood, sweat and tears. My greatest joy is a healthy puppy and a wonderful home. The cards of thanks and the pictures of my puppy with its new family is the fringe benefits of my efforts. I am an animal lover, nurse, midwife, heavy laborer, customer service representative, and marketer. AND I am a breeder.

I might add here too that my most recent experience with a young (virgin) stud dog was that he wasn't even interested in anything other than play until one day when the bitch at the end of her season was left at home and he was taken out to a show. He jumped out of the car, apparently took one sniff and in the blink of an eye tied with her. I'm still not too sure who was the most surprised at his speed and skill.....her, me or him! And editing to add: It wasn't planned either. It was a major OOPS moment on my behalf when I let him out of the car because I had completely forgotten that I had let her out of her pen to stretch her legs whilst I unpacked!

Sounds like she isn't ready to me. Hope the next reading is better and he shows more interest.

That's great news LMWS. Sadly, the bad run of events wasn't confined solely to December, October and November have had their fair share as well. Personally, I think that 2009 has been a shocker of a year for many and can only hope that 2010 brings everybody more joy and a heck of a lot more nice treatment from the breeding fairy!

I can think of lots of reasons, essentially none of which are anybody's business but the OP's.

Sounds fair to me! And when he yells at me, I shall point him to this thread and let him see that I'm not the only one who thinks he is breaking rules! Now that we have sorted out which boy for you, in a few weeks someone is going to have to help with picking out a girl for me... COOL!

Sounds fair to me! :D And when he yells at me, I shall point him to this thread and let him see that I'm not the only one who thinks he is breaking rules!

*sniff* He don't like the girly ones so I don't think he'll play that game!

I confess that I have been spoiling Roger (aka Khaki) a little bit, but only because he asks me to! We have nanna naps together. He wobbles up and plonks himself down with his head on my arm or lays in the curve of my shoulder with his head on my neck, gives a few grunts, a couple of JAW CRACKING squeaky yawns, a big sigh and then goes to sleep. When he's ready to wake, he licks me, gives a squeak and tells me he needs to go to the toilet and then off he goes to eat or drink. He's a cute little lump. I've tried VERY hard to resist him but it is difficult. Convincing Mr Ellz that he is staying is going to give me some grief. He was supposed to choose a dog for himself and I was to have free rein on the bitches......but we apparently forgot to tell Roger!

Thanks Chopperlodge. I'm getting mixed responses from various avenues and so far the one constant is the Khaki boy (who I call Roger) who has apparently chosen me as HIS anyway! Thank goodness he is looking nice. Just need to pray that teeth and testicles are all present and accounted for now! Green I think I'm discounting. You can't really see it from the photo....well maybe you can from her apparent inability to stand up...she appears to have a much shorter upper arm than her littermates and is quite "stodgy" in build. Not a lot of neck, but again, that could be the front assembly talking. I like Yellow, but I also like Orange overall I think. She carries herself beautifully when she moves, wobbly legs and all. I like Blue Multi's body but I don't really like her eye shape and I'm thinking she possibly has too much lip. Of course, they're still only toddlers so much can change in the next few weeks but I like to look at them when I plonk them down standing still like this initially with no "stacking practice" to see where everything lands when you put it pointing downwards.