kelpiechick

Get yourself a copy of the book 'Agility Right from the Start' - worth every cent. This will go through all the exercises that everyone has mentioned so far, with lots of pictures to explain step by step, plus really explains how to create that balance between handler focus and driving ahead using lots of games. Loads of flatwork exercises and the authors are certified TAG teachers so really know how to break each exercise down into small bits, plus they have worked regularly with Greg Derrett and Susan Garrett so use many of the same exercises. (Remember this is TRAINING focussed so the book is not particularly handling system specific and would benefit anyone planning to use any system in the future) If you visit the website www.agilityrightfromthestart.com there should be a chapter of the book that you could download for free, plus a couple of videos of them teaching some of the exercises in the book. One of the other things that they also cover in detail is training mechanics or what they call 'good agility practices'. This is where you learn to use your training time most efficiently by being totally prepared before you start, not wasting time looking for treats in your pockets, how to move dog between training exercises most efficiently, etc. etc. Very worthwhile as a lot of people struggle with this one. I also love the GD foundation DVD, Moe Strenfel foundation DVD is good, Silvia Trkman's trick training DVD's (a 7 month old would benefit down the line for agility training by doing lots of shaping and having fun learning tricks which allows you to create a high level of reinforcement - or money in the bank as SG calls it) plus Success with one jump is great - but if you don't want to outlay that much money then you will get just as much from this book. My main goal for a 7 month old would be that I was building lots of value for working with me, so they were excited about working with me, no matter what we did.

When you start with the wire crate, try putting it in a different location to where you slammed the door of the other one, if that makes sense. I had a 'poisoned crate' incident with my BC when she was around 5 months of age, so I changed crates and worked the crate games outside for a few weeks - that fixed the issue I was having. Changing the picture is really important after you have an 'accident'. I would also go back to just doing some desensitising with the vari kennel, feeding near it, for looking at it, feeding with one hand with dog standing near it while you make noise with the door, etc.

I get country mail delivery and it's very common not to get a card in the mail, or to get one saying second notice when you never got the first, or to find it by accident blowing around the paddock with the sheep Our local post office are hopeless - there is someone else with the same last name on our street (dont' know them as it's a very long street) and they constantly try and give me their packages when I go to get mine - I lived in fear they would get my CR one instead of me, but luckily it didn't happen. This thread cracks me up - free delivery finished ages ago and it's still bumping along ..... maybe can keep it going up until the next free delivery

Sure it was you then - I also remember Ruby when I was starting out trialling as a beginner with my first dog (pre-kelpie) and used to be in absolute awe of everyone in Masters, especially those with the breeds that you didn't see as often. Had forgotten that Greg used to run a Rotti ! With the current rule change you may well want to reconsider Pairs for a bit of fun - if you team with a 500 dog you could jump 500 now in that event.

I can't see why they wouldn't be but just to be certain why not contact Dogs Vic. or the Agility Committee. Are you on the Vic agility list ? Maybe posting there might be helpful. My older kelpie got his first 3 ADX passes in 2005, then broke his leg and had over a year off, finally finishing that title in 2007 in the new excellent class. Plus I have one novice snooker pass from 2007 (tried it, hated it, don't want to do it again for a bit) which I might consider going on with as he nears retirement age (just to give him a run in something a bit less stressful) so that will most likely have a huge gap between Q's when I finally get round to it again as I doubt it will be next year. I would think if there was an expiry date on passes, it would have been made known in the rules, like the expiry date for Ag Ch under the previous rules. The only catch I can think of would be how long Dogs Vic keep their marked catalogues for to check (someone there should at least be able to tell you that much) but even if they don't hold them longer than a certain number of years, I would think you could then send in original pass cards, as you do from passes gained interstate, which they then return. Good Luck - I'm pretty sure I remember one of your dogs back in Novice with my kelpie. Are you thinking of making a return to the agility ring ?

A Cattledog, couple of kelpies and a BC reckon it's their kind of clothesline too All dry inside now and no damage done !

Mine arrived today with a sticker on the box to say that it had been received 'in a wet condition' at Melbourne Airport. Customs went through it and then repacked and reboxed everything .... someone obviously had fun with a ton of plastic as it took me forever to get everything opened. Everything was OK except for a few toys at the bottom that smelt a bit damp and some paper bag type carriers that I bought to put some gifts in and were still wet. So this was my clothesline late this afternoon. The colour co-ordination with my husbands mowing overalls is pretty good I reckon

Planted it everywhere in the house I lived in before this one.... and my old dog dug it out and chewed it It has a weird smell but it's quite a pretty plant for bordering and spreads quickly as well, don't think it does any dog repelling though.

LOL - I don't consider I have changed teams, just added another dimension ! I grew up with kelpies, I will always own kelpies and will most likely add another BC at some stage too as I am finding that they complement each other very well and I am really enjoying working with both breeds. I had no intention of listening to those trying to persuade me either, but somehow along the way the working line kelpie from WA that I wanted became a working line BC from WA instead ! (As John Lennon once said, 'life is what happens to you while you're busy making other plans.') What attracted you to Barru, if you don't mind me asking. Don't know too much about them except that Scott is a nice guy by all accounts. His breeding is very heavily based on Karrawarra lines.... and definitely look like the old style working kelpies. If it's those lines you like for a particular reason and it doesn't work out you might also want to take a look at Karmala Stud in Queensland - based on very similar lines but a couple of other lines in there too that I really like. Don't know anyone who has ever owned one of their kelpies though unfortunately which makes it hard to find out much about them.

How are you finding that they are different? Well not having a spare hour or so my answer will be abbreviated and generalised (LOL). The old saying 'ask a border collie to jump and he will say 'how high?' Ask a kelpie to jump and he will say 'why?' is very true ! The kelpies have every bit as much athleticism and drive as the BC but are much more 'show me the money' dogs. This might make it sound as if the BC is easier to train, but not always so, because I want the reinforcement to come from me rather than the agility equipment ....... so need to make sure I don't fall into that trap where I don't work as hard to be the one with the rewards. (Sorry, badly explained but hopefully you know what I mean) The BC constantly looks to me for direction, whereas the kelpies think they know more than I do (which is probably right in many cases) and like to be a lot more independent when working. I find the kelpies more mentally draining before I go into the ring to make sure they are in the Goldilocks state of arousal (just right !) whereas I dont have to do as much work in that respect with the BC - she is ready to go 24/7. The kelpies are a lot more forgiving of my handling errors than she is - in fact she is so super responsive and fast that I only have to be out of postion by a fraction and it's all over. My Q rate with the kelpies is much higher, but having said that, the BC is still a 'baby' (just coming up to 2 and a half) and only has a few months trialling experience under her belt. We're not a team yet in the way that I am with the kelpies. I find my kelpies to be more 'thinking' dogs when it comes to shaping - it generally takes them longer to 'get' something but once they do it is a very strong behaviour, whereas the BC will offer things in a frenzy and if I am quick enough to capture the response I want then the behaviour comes quickly but often more by accident than anything else. Getting her to slow down and think is more of a challenge. If I graphed the time it took to teach a behaviour, it would show a steady incline for the kelpies, whereas for the BC it would be flat for a while and then all of a sudden there would be a massive spike- latent learning seems to be much more applicable to her. I have also found it much harder to change the way I do something (in regard to agility) with the kelpies, whereas the BC seems to be much more adaptable to trying something in a different way without falling back on old behaviours. The kelpies in particular seem to thrive on routine. These are only generalisations for my own dogs, not meant to be a tried and true list of differences between the 2 breeds, but what I have found so far. (And I love them all, even though I swore I would never have a BC )

DSO, one thing that I would do before I decided on a breeder would be to actually talk to people who own kelpies from particular studs - whether working or show line and get their personal experience in regard to what qualities you are looking for in a dog. One thing I found when I was initially looking for a kelpie was that there is some 'bad blood' between a couple of the well known studs where one of them has passed on all sorts of rumours about the temperaments of particular lines from a couple of other breeders ..... not necessarily true, so don't listen to gossip and ask those who actually have owned those kelpies instead. I have made the opposite 'change' to you - after running 2 kelpies in agility (and still do) I have added a BC to the mix (we began trialling part way through this year) and there is a world of difference in both training and running the 2 breeds. I am not advocating that one is any better than the other (yet, LOL) but just different. I intend to stick to owning both breeds as I believe it has made me a better trainer... certainly forced me to move outside my comfort zone and think about doing things in different ways. If looking for an agility prospect it might be worthwhile looking at a couple of the working WA lines as well.

Back in the days when I used stick in the ground poles, I made myself a tape using a piece of black webbing with eyelets punched 60cm apart. Then I used to peg it into the ground at either end, line up the poles with the eyelets and then remove the tape. Was quick, easy and cheap to make.

Which would also include passing the active plane of an obstacle, even if it doesn't specifically mention it. I agree that it is badly worded. I also dislike the refusal rule, especially after trialling interstate a few months ago and seeing what doesn't get called compared to Victoria. There was a massive difference. Although I'm not a fan of NADAC agility, I think they got it right in regard to refusals, not pinged, just time wasting. Let's face it, if you have a refusal in Masters Jumping you pretty much aren't going to make time anyway, especially with some of the times that seem to get applied to courses lately. The rule is way too grey and open to interpretation (or misinterpretation) for my liking no matter how they word it.

LMAO I should probably do the same thing and not leave it so long to decide - more the older dog that I am still undecided about. Scary thing is that it will come round quickly enough.

Entries don't close until 13th May last time I looked, is that correct or am I reading it wrong ? In which case not really all that different from some trials here - some of our country ones close around a month before the date and almost catch me out every time. I'm actually impressed that closing date is so close to the actual trial considering the magnitude of it all. Gives me plenty of time to keep deciding

My kelpie broke his front leg at 2 years of age - he had gained his Novice agility titles and was half way through Open (before Excellent came to be) when he did it. Had plate inserted, wires, screws, you name it. Developed complications after 6 or 7 weeks when a wire came loose and he ripped his own leg open biting at it. 3 lots of surgery after it didn't heal properly and after the initial diagnosis that he would most likely never be able to run agility again everything finally came good and he got the go ahead to return after 12 months off. That was more than 6 years ago, he has now had his Masters titles for some time, turned 9 yesterday and is still going strong. There has never been any sign of a limp associated with the leg, the only legacies from the injury are a wrist that doesn't bend which inhibits him turning tightly in one direction (we make time in Masters Jumping if the course has most turns in his good direction but usually just out by a fraction if they all go in the 'bad direction') and a spot in his lower back that occasionally becomes sore which is apparently related to the original injury. He is definitely slower than he was before the injury, but I think I caused a lot of that as I became a helicopter handler (hover, hover, hover) when he came back as I was so scared of something happening to him and I wouldn't let him open up and run for a long time. But he gets round most Masters courses just fine although I only enter him in a couple of classes now as I would like to continue running him for as long as possible. I don't spend a fortune doing Bowen or anything else that was suggested. He has laser therapy occasionally from a massage therapist and a bit of manipulation but not on the actual leg. In fact broken bones often mend with fewer complications that soft tissue injuries that are difficult to diagnose and can become chronic. Having said that, I don't know if I would take on a dog with a pre-existing injury, unless it was the 'love of my life' and I couldn't say no. I would imagine that each case is an individual. We were lucky that there was no actual damage to the joint below the site of the break and he came through everything fine. So not all is doom and gloom from a break.

Hi Nik, Think I might have seen you on Friday, (assuming you are talking about a particular club as it is the only Friday night training I know, plus I noticed just one person in Foundation class) I was teaching the class in the next ring to the one you were in. Unfortunately you will find that instructors have different ways of doing things down there - have just checked out the roster and you will have an instructor next week that won't tell you to repeat things over and over (unless she can't take class for some reason as she comes a fair distance and sometimes has to swap) and I'm betting that you find the class very different. (In fact you won't have anyone telling you to repeat things over and over for the next 3 weeks, just checked roster again, LOL.) Consistency would be nice but you will find it doesn 't always happen and that can be confusing, especially when you are starting out. You are going to find that there are a couple of instructors who can be a bit insistent about doing things their way and it's not worthwhile trying to argue the point with them, but that doesn't mean you have to do anything that doesn't 'sit right' with you - my advice would be not to argue, just smile, say 'I'll work on it at home away from agility equipment, in a less distracting environment, etc, etc,' and continue only giving instructions once. (I don't use cue for 'stay' either btw , once I ask for a sit then I don't expect movement until release.) Unfortunately in a club of volunteers, you have to take the good with the bad. Don't get discouraged by particular instructors, you will find that there are plenty who will do things more the way you are used to. If you have any questions about anything someone asks you to do in class you are welcome to come and talk to me. I am down most Fridays running 2 red and tan kelpies and a tricolour BC. And yeah, there are usually more people in your class, not sure what was going on there last week.

No problems, will PM you later.

Was just going to post for a couple of people who asked previously that Greg & Laura details are now available on Agility Click website (www.agilityclick.com) so will do it here instead, LOL. Having done both 'live and online' I think it depends on what you are aiming to get out of it in the first place. Some online presentations (eg: SG and GD) are more towards providing you with training exercises and it's up to you to work through them. You don't get that instant trouble shooting and feedback that you get live, but the upside is that you can work through things at your own pace, get a good collection of ideas for training plus you still have the benefit of contact with other students for discussion, etc. Other online courses (eg: Silvia Trkman, Daisy Peel) allow you to choose whether to enrol as a participant or an auditor. As an participant you post videos of your exercises each week for feedback. Being an auditor is a bit like auditing a workshop where you get to view everyone else's videos and read the feedback, but can't post your own. But you can join in discussions and ask questions. If you want specific feedback for your own performance, then obviously 'in the flesh' or an online course that allows you to submit videos is the way to go. If you want to improve your knowledge base in general then auditing or online is great.... you just have to figure out how to apply it to your own performance though. I've been a bit of a junkie this year, due to 2 of my 3 dogs being out injured for most of the year and only trialling the baby lightly so my much lessened trial entries have gone towards signing up for a lot of online to sample of 'bit of this and a bit of that'. Happy to share what I thought was worthwhile and what not so much if anyone wants to know. Now just need to work out how I can find the money for GD 'in the flesh' as I didn't bugdet for that one.

Just had an email from another list. Big loss to the kelpie breed, I believe he was also responsible for a lot of the development of genetic testing used in BC's. Lost his battle with cancer in his late fifties and have heard that he was due to marry on Sunday. Very sad.

That would be 'Satan's Tool'

What she said Plus it also depends very much on the dog and knowing your own dog. What might be a NRM for one dog borderlines on being a correction for another so I don't think it's a black and white issue where you can say yes it's Ok or no it's not. A lot of people also have trouble keeping it unemotional and their body language upbeat. Tape yourself next time and listen to how you sound and it's sometimes not as you thought you did.

Be very careful here KTB. In something you can clearly measure like weaves, start lines or contacts, this can work so long as your criteria is clearly defined. With general handling this becomes much harder to get right. If my dogs miss a jump or take the wrong one, they are never wrong as far as I'm concerned. 99 times out of 100 it is a bad cue I gave or poor timing. To make them think they did the wrong thing when responding to a cue at speed is to make them hesitant and erode the trust they have in me & my handling. x3 ! Also with something like weaves it can sometimes be a training issue - most of us tend to think something is 'trained' long before it actually is plus dogs don't always generalise well onto different sets of weaves, weaves in different positions, etc, when they haven't been doing agility for all that long. I would be collecting a bit of video evidence first and having a close look to see exactly what I was doing and what my dog was doing before I started using a 'no' ....... I would be very careful about using a 'no' in relation to agilty in any form as I agree with Vickie that you will end up creating a dog that slows right down because they are too cautious about making a mistake. Beware long training sessions too - just because they can doesn't mean they should. 5 minutes or so is usually enough for my kelpies whereas my BC would probably go 5 hours if I let her, but that ain't gonna happen

Control Unleashed by a mile ! Was disappointed in Click to Calm when I read it - thought it was a bit simplistic, whereas CU is a lot more comprehensive and has training ideas that can be applied to all sorts of dogs, not just typical CU candidates.

www.tug-e-nuff.co.uk They have some great looking toys too but unfortunately won't post their toys OS as they haven't paid to insure them, DVD's are OK though. Definitely worthwhile adding to your collection IMO. He breaks every exercise down into flatwork, one jump, two jumps, three jumps, etc. and is very big on creating a balance between working close and driving ahead. just had a look! not too bad a price do you recall how much shipping was and how long it took by any chance? not important if you cant remember, ill just email them and find out I ordered mine around November last year and just looked up past bank statement - all up with postage it was just on $60 AUS, but I did get the DVD a little cheaper than what they are charging now as it was a special offer when it was first released. (Not a huge difference though from memory) They were extremely efficient at sending it , sent an email the same day I ordered apologising that they wouldn't be able to get it in the mail until the next day as they were in the middle of a snowstorm.