kelpiechick

A true running contact is just that - the dog RUNS in extended stride over the length of the d/w or AFrame - not trots, walks, etc. A dog with a true running contact will generally complete a d/w in 2 seconds or under. This takes a huge amount of training. The dog has to be taught to actually run the equipment first and then learns to hit a particular spot at the bottom, usually with the aid of a touch board or stride regulators- and many, many repetitions to create 'muscle memory'. Many small dogs are ideal candidates for this type of contact due to the length of their stride, but they still need to be taught their 'job' first. Just letting them go over and off with a collected stride that slows them down compared to their normal running pace would be what I would call a moving contact rather than a running contact. Many dogs trialling have moving contacts which their handlers (incorrectly) describe as running contacts. The method of contacts that you decide to use is entirely up to you-(there is no right or wrong)- and what you want for your dogs. A lot of people in classes are not interested in trialling or in trialling at Masters level and decide to teach what I would call a handler dependent contact. (eg: dogs contact performance relies on handler being close to dog to slow it down, point at spot, straighten it, etc.) If they are happy with this then that is fine. Other people have higher goals in regard to trialling so for them, this type of contact performance would not be fine and they would most likely be looking for an independent contact - the dog performs the equipment without any assistance from handler - in fact handler could probably be 5 metres or more away/ behind dog/in front of dog and it wouldn't make any difference to performance. For safety's sake, it is important that you don't let your dog jump off the side of the equipment in the way you describe. (or to jump on from the side either) So if you decide to teach a handler dependent contact, you will need to take particular care with your body language to make sure the dog has a straight entry/exit. If you are teaching an independent contact you will be less likely to have this problem due to the dog having a 'job' at the end. You can also use tall witches hats on either side of d/w at the start/bottom to encourage dog not to leap off/on side - have also seen 'gates' built with PVC pipe and orange netting that do the same job. Hope this answers your questions. Try to get a picture inside your head of what you want your dog's ideal contact performance to look like and then work out how you will train this step by step. I am training my youngest dog 2020 on dogwalk and running on A Frame. If you want to see an awesome 2020 contact check out this. and follow the link to 'contact movie'. (ours don't quite look like this yet - LOL) In regard to 2020 training - there seems to be a bit of confusion about what it actually is. The nose touch is not something added to 2020 but is actually part of the behaviour. There are several positions at the end that you can train for 2020- usually these are 1. back feet on, front feet off with dog nose touching between its front paws 2. back feet on/front feet off with dog standing upright in that position 3. back feet on/front feet off with dog in a drop or crouch - Elicia Calhoun teaches this method and shapes it with a (large) board that she teaches the dog to drop on first. Difference between this and 4 on floor is that board is placed on end of contact and dog is shaped into position where front paws are on the ground but rest of dog is on contact - not quite as ambiguous a position as 4 on floor. Plus she trains her dogs to slide into that position so it's really fast. I like the nose touch method - as a previous poster pointed out you can recue this for multiple rewards at end when you are training plus it's a very 'black and white' position for the dog. But you do need to teach your dog to rock their weight back first or yes, you will get 'handstands.'

I train at Agility Dog Club Vic. at Altona North on Friday nights and we have members who come from Kyneton, Gisborne and even Echuca. (We are not taking any more new members at the moment tho' due to class sizes) I believe the club at Bendigo trains agility but not sure if it is on Saturday or Sunday. (sure someone on here will know) There is also Mitchell agility club at Broadford, they train on Saturdays. Probably contacting Bendigo or Ballarat clubs and asking would be your best bet.

39 ? Are your serious???? Well you can't say that you don't go to extremes down there. And I was only entered on Sunday afternoon as I couldn't get accomodation so I made the right call and didn't drive close to 4 hours for nothing - yay (I did sulk most of Sunday tho'!) I usually enter Bairnsdale (another of my favourite trials after Wangaratta and Warrnambool) but didn't this time as Easter came earlier and I didn't want to run a full weekend 2 days in a row. Looking at the forecast, that may get shut down too as I think the 'cut off' is now 35. Let's hope Easter brings some cooler weather for all the runs we are now going to have!!!!!

Are you talking ADCV? I'm intrigued as IMO 3 out of the 4 judges listed for Excellent jumping set the nicest flowing courses 9 times out of 10, so you either copped one of their crappy ones (which are not frequent so don't stress) or it's the 4th person who I have never run under except in games. I have 4 judges that I don't bother entering under any more, mainly because the style of course they usually set does not sit well with my handling system and slows my dog down, which I don't want - and none of these are judging at Easter, yay! So go on FP - enter everything you want , you can always pull out of any that you don't want to run on the day. Getting back to the thread, most I have ever run on one day is 6. Dog was fine with it, but I was 'brain dead' by the last run. Have entered 8 at Moorabbin, but doubt that I will run them all. I'm good at 'donating' my entry fee to clubs - have donated to Knox (twisted ankle) and Warrnambool (weather forecast) so far! I might actually get to trial in 2008 one of these days.

Good Luck Silvawillow ! Although 'up north' is in the general direction for me I have now got to the point where there are a (small) number of judges I don't bother entering under any more, due to consistently tight and multi -direction changing courses which demotivate my dog. I would have been going for a very small number of runs, so wasn't worth it. Only looked to see which judges were doing Masters tho' so hopefully Blush's JD run will be more 'user friendly'. Go Blush.

Dammit - clashes with Casterton Kelpie Festival. Sounds good though.

I have them in both PDF and Word format. (For Agility but it's the same entry form) If you PM me your email address I can send them to you if that helps.

My oldest dog was 7 before I began agility training. Started trialling at 8 and finished his novice titles before 'retiring' him to NADAC veterans where he could jump lower heights. Given that most dogs don't peak until around 5 or 6, then 3 is perfect to start.

I have made them for my dogs and for friends and they are very simple - don't even need to be sewn. Good idea to add a piece of ribbon(grosgrain) or light webbing into the fleece plait, then they don't stretch quite as much - the ones from 'Clean Run' are made like that. If you particularly want a sliplead with a tugging section in the middle, they are pretty easy to make too, but you will need a sewing machine. I made mine with webbing and D rings for the collar/lead section and sewed a fleece section into the middle specifically for tugging.

Please do NOT put your 6 month old pup through weave poles, even if they are channelled. It puts way too much stress on a dog's developing joints. There is a lot of foundation work you can do between 6 and 12 months that is a lot more valuable than weaving and jumping. Many agility clubs will not take dogs under 12 months. We take them from 6 months at Agility Dog Club (Altona North) but they do not do any jumping (even with bars on ground, although we do use jump bumps) or weaving until 12 months.

Ahh- the joys of kelpie ownership. I own a just turned 5 and a 20 months - and grew up with kelpies as a child. I realise all dogs are different and don't know anything about yours but in general kelpies do NOT respond well to any form of harsh treatment and there is no way I would use anything suggested to you so far on mine. (except the water squirting cos mine would see that as a game rather than a punishment! ) As a breed they appear confident, sometimes pushy and can jump around like clowns, but I believe they are also very soft dogs and I have seen many ruined by training with aversives. Kelpies tend to be a one person dog (sometimes 2) and for me, our relationship is everything. I want a dog that truly wants to offer me the desired behaviour, rather than offering it because of the consequences. However, every now and again you also seem to get one who is a 'hard nosed bugar'- the exception rather than the rule. In this case the suggestions outlined so far may work. Luckily I have never owned a kelpie like this - although I have seen them- and have been able to achieve results with positive training. But as I said, that would depend on your dog. I also don't believe that it is impossible to do anything about the jumping. When is this occurring? When you arrive home? Every time you go into the yard? In the house? You first need to define if there is a pattern to this behaviour occurring. You might need to brush up on your leadership training - does your kelpie truly see you as the pack leader? They are sneaky in this respect as they tend not to be 'overtly dominant' - the information pack from my kelpie's breeder came with the warning - 'Kelpies are masters of psychology' - Very true. They also need to learn that they have an 'on/off'switch ) You mentioned that you don't have problems on lead so I would start there. Choose a default behaviour (sit, drop, going to a mat, etc.) and give extremely high value rewards for this behaviour in an environment where there are minimal distractions. Gradually drop the lead, building up to removing it, and add distractions - eg: situations where jumping will occur. (An excellent reference for this is 'Control Unleashed' by Leslie McDevitt) Also think about the position where you are rewarding - to stop jumping I would make sure that I continually delivered rewards low- no hands in the air. My young kelpie is a 'jumper' and I put the behaviour on cue - firstly rewarded him, then put a verbal cue to the behaviour, then asked him to jump and rewarded him. Now he only jumps on me if I ask him to. (which I still do every now and then) He also has agility training as an outlet - giving your kelpie a 'job' can help a lot. Is your kelpie from a breeder ? If so, I would suggest also contacting them and asking how they would deal with the issue. Also, none of these ideas are a 'quick fix' - they will require a lot of training and consistency, but worth it in the end. Hope some of this helps.

Well I may get motivated and come and cheer you on FP - but without dogs. After all, someone has to get some brags and give ness a run for her money My baby (20 months) did his first 600 jump chute and first full height A Frame today - does that count????

Not for twilight trials I'm told that NSW is back trialling by twilight and SA is as well, seem us Vics are the slack ones And SA seem to have the correct definition of a twilight trial not beginning til 8pm. Victoria's idea of a twilight trial starting at 5pm in February - with daylight saving, 5pm can be not too far off the hottest part of the day. Plus a 2 hour drive for me to get there ......... So I am having even more tanties than you FP, as I won't be trialling again until March - and scratching then if it's too hot. Sorry to hijack thread ness - I'm just jealous that I don't have anything to brag about !

Which code of agility are you planning on entering? ANKC : If you are in Victoria (as I think you are?) it would be a good idea to phone and check that there will be 2 judges accredited to measure at that trial - this is not always the case as not all judges in Vic. are 'licensed to measure'. NADAC : You can be measured on the day, and do not have to be measured if you have nominated the top height (500)

The Agility Dog Club Vic. is located at Altona North - not to be confused with the obedience club in Altona. We have an intake of new members every second month with a strict limit - the first night for the year is Wed. 6th Feb, but this may be already full - we usually have a waiting list. If you are interested in joining ring Donna and have a chat (her number is on the website) as she wil know if there are any vacancies for Feb. (Next intake is 2nd April) On the new member's evening (no dogs) we discuss club rules and training philosophy (we are a positive reinforcement club) plus you will receive a booklet with information on how to get the best out of your agility classes, warming up and reinforcement ideas, etc. We then ask you to come down to training and watch on the following Friday (still no dogs) so you get an idea of how the club runs, see how the various classes operate, etc. An instructor will be rostered on to look after the group and answer any questions. Then if you are still keen to join, we take your money !!!! And you get to bring your dog down the following week, knowing what to expect. The reason we run the information evening plus club familiarisation session is that we want people to be sure about joining before we ask for fees. In the past we have had some people who don't want to do the foundation work first and just want to 'run their dog over equipment' which is not how our classes are structured. And is incredibly unsafe for both dogs and handlers. Hope this helps. PM me if you want any more information.

There's a Great Dane in Queensland doing well at agility, so I've heard. You might also want to check out this link for run down of Great Danes in US doing agility at the highest level.

Sorry, but the sentence in your post that read 'if anyone else is doing something similar feel free to post here as well' was misinterpreted by me too in that case. I interpreted that to mean 'is anyone teaching anything using a new or otherwise training tool' I didn't realise you only wanted 'ecollar' related things. Not that I would dare post an opinion about anything after the flack that helen received. It is way too easy to misinterpret remarks on forums - remember what is in your mind is not always how the reader sees it. Why is it such a sin that someone has achieved results without using an e collar and why does that person deserve remarks such as were made - remember it is only YOUR interpretation that sees it as 'oneupmanship' or whatever it was called. Why can't it just be politely said, 'sorry, this thread is about ecollar training only.' and then just leave it at that? Hopefully there is room for all opinions and training approaches on this forum. Or have I got that wrong too?

Really interesting article SnT. I have never seen Cesar Milan (don't have pay TV so I'm not even really sure who he is) but I did a seminar with Ian Dunbar a few years back and he was incredible. Anyone who has never been, if you get the chance then GO! (Same sentiments also for Suzanne Clothier.)

What state are you in? I can give you a couple of different contacts if you are in Victoria.

Try this link for step by step explanation and (I think) some videos. Some of the Agility in Motion series have good segments on these too.

Great photos Vickie ! The dogs may be green but the stuff on the ground is even greener and I'm very jealous. My boys are training on dirt at the moment. t(AD)pole, not sure if your 'club situation' has changed from last time we spoke? There are a group of us from one of the clubs where I train who get together each week over summer but I know where you are situated and unfortunately it's not all that close. It can be difficult to find a 'network' of like minded people who want to train, but I'm sure they're out there somewhere. I am also running a 'dogless' training afternoon at my place next month for some of my students from club - we are going to watch course analysis DVD's and then I will set up a course for them to walk and analyse, plus we may do some 'air handling' of particular spots. You are welcome to come, but again I know it would be a very long drive (over an hour) PM me if you want more information.

NADAC runs agility trials in Victoria with a veterans division. (Dogs 7 years +) Check it out here: Veteran dogs jump lower plus there are two 'streams' ,where in one you can nominate an even lower height again. NADAC also run games such as tunnellers so you have a wide variety of choice.

After missing the end of 'trialling season' 2005 and two thirds of 2006 due to severe injury (to dog) my goals are very different to what they used to be. My goal is to genuinely have fun running agility with my dog, to remember to smile at him at the start line and to stay connected for the whole run. To be thankful for the privilege of having a dog who chooses to run with me no matter what the outcome and to remember that there is always another trial, another run and that in the scheme of things dog agility actually counts for very little. To remember that no one ever remembers your run except for yourself and to 'embrace my holes' (thanks Susan Garrett) as they give focus to my training sessions. To appreciate the joy of 'full out running' with my dog. (thanks Elicia Calhoun) To remember that my dog has practically no flexion in one wrist joint and as such works a lot more slowly when turning in one direction - this is now 'normal' for him and if I get a course with a lot of 'bad direction' turns then big deal - no stressing about lack of speed, as I handle badly when I go into 'howler monkey' mode. To keep my training diary a lot more up to date. To remember that this is a journey (not a 'title destination') that I am lucky enough to be making with an awesome dog , learning loads of stuff along the way, and that titles happen when they happen - no matter how hard I work there may still be factors outside my control - deal with it! Finally, to lose 5 kilos so I can keep up with my new dog

A really useful reference is 'Building Blocks for Performance' (Bobbie Anderson) Each chapter is a run down of different foundation exercises to teach a puppy, with particular performance sports in mind. Obedience, agility and herding foundation/'games' are all covered. One of my favourite books. Available on the internet from Clean Run and Dogwise.