kelpiechick

My kelpies currently swim once a fortnight to assist in their conditioning for agility but I would like to increase this amount. I am thinking of buying a small above ground pool, deep enough that they have to swim around in circles, as I figure I can offset the cost against the petrol of driving an hour to the beach or 45 minutes to dog swimming pool plus cost of hiring. Does anyone else have their own swimming pool that their dogs swim in? How much upkeep does it take to keep clean? Hair removal? How do you chlorinate - chemical chlorine or salt? (Sorry, but I'm a pool virgin) How often does your dog swim and has it had an effect on the condition of their coat? Anyone purchased a pool specifically for their dog and was it worth the cost?

Good Luck- our B&B that we stayed at for Warrnambool trial every year sold and I have had a really hard time finding something else as everyone books the dog friendly places from year to year. I had a B&B at Port Fairy booked, but the owner cancelled on me last week when she found out I had 2 dogs instead of one and when I said they would be crated at night stated 'I don't want caged dogs in my accommodation' so that one is off the list- how they can advertise themselves as dog friendly is beyond me. I booked Hopkins River Caravan Park last week and at that stage they still had vacancies - not cheap though IMO- more expensive for an onsite van than the B&B we used to stay at and the dogs have to sleep in the car.

Anyone want motel accomodation before I cancel it? Booked a few weeks back but now won't be able to come so I have a double room booked (nice motel with gardens to walk dogs) for $80 night x 2 people if anyone wants to take it over.

A topic close to my heart as I have two of these - but I believe it is for different reasons and also that confidence/stress are two different issues, although related. Trialling kelpie I believe it is stress related as it does not happen at every trial - we have some runs with good speed and others ..... well we won't go there. It also presents that I can be in two different rings at the same trial and have good runs in one ring and 'shut down' in another so I believe it is a reaction to some environmental stress rather than trial stress in general. The frustrating thing is that I can't always work out what it is - one example, a trial with 2 first places in one ring and refusing to do a startline stay in another, and jumping up and following me when I tried to leave him every time - I had someone come up to me later and tell me they believed it was a dog in a tent next to the ring that was wearing a Vic. collar - every time it moved its head, he freaked and stood up. I try to walk him around the outside of all the rings we will be in before the trial, letting him check everything out, and then try to keep his focus as we are warming up to go in - you have some good suggestions LP - usually tricks, tugging until a couple of dogs before us (if he will, this is still a 'sometimes' at a trial) and then lots of small food rewards delivered quickly while the dog before is running. If we do have a run where I feel he is shutting down, I will not worry about the course and try to pick a straight line to run out of the ring , to try and get the speed back. At training I will stop in the middle of a course or sequence if I have good speed and reward this. Choosing a particular handling system and trying to stick to it has also helped. Kelpies really don't like inconsistency or ambiguity in any way so I try to have a startline routine that stays the same as well as consistent handling - and with some of the abominations of courses we get in Vic. this is not always easy. I will also scratch a run if I can't find a consistent way to handle the course within my system. Just to go OT for a moment, this dog had no toy drive and I have worked really hard at building this, but now when he really goes into drive over a toy I get leg humping as well - any thoughts from the drive experts on here - I know it's supposed to be a dominance issue but it only ever presents at agility when he is totally focussed on the toy - the best runs I have are usually preceded by leg humping so if you see someone going into the Masters ring with a kelpie attached to her leg - that will be me! The younger kelpie (not trialling yet largely due to this lack of speed in unfamiliar locations) I believe it is more of a confidence issue and hopefully will improve over time. (eg: put him on an unfamiliar dogwalk and he will crawl over it the first couple of times but by the 3rd or 4th repetition is flying over it) I am holding back on entering him, even though the way he runs at home he is well and truly ready) and taking him to trials and playing with him outside the ring. Have just started taking a jump with me and putting that up not too far from a ring, working on stays in a trial environment and all those other good suggestions that people had. When he won't tug with a toy - again this is inconsistent- we tug with a cheesestick as he is very food motivated. Means we can still interact as we do with a toy and he gets the reward he likes. Win-Win. When I do enter him for the first time, I intend to do my own 'not for competition' run (if they won't give it to us in Vic. I will create it!) where we will take the first 4 or 5 obstacles (or less if he appears stressed) and then leave the ring and party. Have already spoken to a couple of judges who are fine with me doing this - there are some I would not do it with - so will be picking and choosing my trials very carefully when he first comes out. Think it's also important to choose your trials with a dog that stresses/lacks confidence. There are some where noises are always a factor (Knox with the athletics gun, Croydon with the train, Sale with the weird echo off the velodrome in some rings) and some where overcrowding before you go in the ring is another factor (Southern comes to mind). These are usually trials that I don't enter, or at least won't be until his confidence grows. I think the other things in dealing with this issue are the hardest - patience, sometimes you just need to chip away at it bit by bit and acceptance (with the dog that only sometimes presents like this) that there are going to be some runs like this and I need to not dwell on them and move on.

Great effort everyone who made finals or/and gained Q's Ah...... the 'if onlys'. I didn't enter much and only had 4 runs across the days I went, but with 2 out of 4 thwarted by blown dogwalk contacts........ I think my 2008 flirtation with running contacts may be over and it's back to 2o2o for me ! Thought those who saw the black poodle (Maggie) in the final might be interested to know that not only was the Nationals the first ANKC trial for that dog, but she has also only ever run 2 courses before that - as ADCV grades classes on agility prowess rather than just jumping, the dog is still in sequencing class. A few weeks ago when I instructed that class and Tara said she had entered Nationals, we grabbed some jumps at the end of class and built a 'makeshift' novice course for her to run. The week after that she entered NADAC and had one jumping and one tunnellers run. Then on to the Nationals where she Q'd on 2 out of 3 runs and then had that awesome run in the final. Great little dog! (and totally psycho out of the ring, so we may have a 'poodle on crack' in the making to join the NSW 'pap on crack' - another great little dog. ) Nice to see the little ones mixing it with the big ones and 'taking it to them' in many cases.

You can check out the results here as they are added. Pippi was a star yesterday in Open Jumping

No problems Silvawillow - it will be good entertainment for everyone to watch the two 'vertically deprived' women putting it up together

OMG - are you serious ? I'm only going Friday and Sunday and if I scratch anything 'agility related' (I'm including pairs & gamblers in that) then I will be left with one run ! And you know what a sooky la-la I am when it comes to my dog after already missing a year of trialling from him being injured - so I will scratch too if I consider it unsafe. As I did at Wang. as some of the things I saw dogs doing were scary. I'm starting to think I should have followed my first instincts which were not to bother entering as I hate running at KCC Park at any time of the year and never enter there. I've been conned into going out tomorrow afternoon with someone that I am training with in the morning to set up and have a look around - so.... will let you know how it looks then. Fingers crossed ! Hmmm - a road trip to Perth might be fun and if both kelpies are trialling by then, it might be worth it.

Me too - so you can see how highly I regard the Nationals can't you :rolleyes:

At least Hastings ground has excellent drainage - unlike KCC Park I might add.

I'll be there on Sunday - that's if I finish picking out the mud from the soles of my runners after Wangaratta

Hi Lelune - If I could only have 3 resources to help me get my dog's training off to the right start they would be : 1. Greg Derrett DVD : Agility Foundation Training (The Bible!) 2. Susan Salo DVD : Jump Foundation Training 3. Kim Collins book : From the Ground Up (covers beginning flatwork with no obstacles, building up to obstacle training, then simple sequencing - gives an excellent progression and has lots of explanations of the theory as she is one of Susan Garrett's instructors at 'Say Yes') Hi Tassie - (apologies for going OT again) We went through the same thing a couple of years back at club. We introduced a Foundation class with very few obstacles (main focus was supposed to be flatwork, teaching dog to play with you, using reinforcement effectively, plus tunnel, very wide channel weaves, perches, ladder, wobble board, plank,cavaletti and jump bumps and uprights) We also introduced an evening where they came without dogs and we talked about what we would be teaching, stressing why they needed to do all this before they got on the (lowered) obstacles in the next class. My explanation was always that even if they were just doing it 'for fun' there may be someone else in class with higher ambitions and I owed it to them to teach all the flatwork first - not to mention how it would improve their relationship with their dog at home, blah, blah, cha, cha - you get the picture. Plus they got an information pack on CD with club rules, some training exercises to do at home, agility resources, etc. Well, 2 and a bit years on ........ we still get some complaining how boring it is and whinging that they don't get promoted but thankfully they are a minority and usually drop out anyway, no loss. We have some very good(potentially) dogs and handlers who have come up through this system and are doing really well. The worst thing is that some instructors still don't follow the class outline - some don't teach any flatwork even though we had a couple of workshops demonstrating all the exercises, and I seem to be the only 'bunny' putting any emphasis on play and relationship. (In the next class up which is teaching obstacles and beginning jump sequencing, we had an instructor teaching them serpentine last week !!!!!!!!!!! ) I don't know what the answer is - we are very short of instructors and don't want to lose any more but some seem to be stuck in a particular way of teaching and don't want to change - very frustrating. And confusing for students I'm sure.

Not sure that I can be that much help, but I hate it when you post and no one replies ;) They have a website that will at least give you a contact number. I know people who used to do agility and herding there up until a couple of years ago but the rising cost of petrol meant that they now do agility closer to home and have given up the herding. I know they enjoyed training there and were even on the committee at one stage. I have been to a couple of herding workshops hosted by the club and found them to be well organised and the herding club members were very helpful and friendly. Plus the training facilities were very good. Hope this is some help at least.

I am sorry that you haven't enjoyed your experience. I know I have had lots of students approach me after class asking various questions, including those about promotion, but neither you nor your BF ever have. In fact I believe the majority of instructors are very approachable - I don't think I've ever seen anyone not willing to give time to answer questions. Many of our Instructors are giving up training their own dogs to take your classes and as such, I don't think it is very charitable to malign them on a public forum. I can't think of one Instructor who deserves that. And if you feel that you are being harrassed by one, you need to speak to the chief Instructor about it -a fact that is made public at new member nights. Yes, I totally agree with you about having an extra level between Foundation and the next class - in fact this will be happening once we train up some more Instructors - maybe some time next year as the training is going to be fairly involved - we want the best trained Instructors we can get and a training protocol is currently being put in place as is a new class structure. In regard to promotion, the criteria for getting promoted from each class is given to you at the new member nights in your information booklet and is also on the club website. (Also currently being updated - there are actually a couple of things on the Foundation criteria that you don't have to do) This is so people can work on exercises at home, especially at foundation level where there is not much equipment. In general, the more work you do at home, the quicker you get out of class. We don't want to hold people there for too long, (Last time I took Foundation, there were only 3 in the class and I promoted all of them.) I'm not sure how your BF can be 'stuck to starting all over again with the new members every few weeks' when there has only been one new member intake this year. I can tell you that to get promoted you need to attend class regularly, especially for a few weeks in a row. You also need to speak to an Instructor about it if you feel you are ready and have been overlooked - I guess it can happen. In regard to your dog being promoted to class 3 (and I am guessing here, as I have not taken class 2 much this year) I would think that it may be because you do not attempt the weaves (I realise there is a reason why) and as class 3 is aimed at those trialling or almost ready to trial, at Novice level, being able to weave is part of the criteria. Again, you need to make sure that you tell Instructors that there is a reason for the 'non weaving'. In all honesty, it wouldn't stop me from promoting you, but again, as it is an exceptional case, I would have to have permission from the chief Instructor and could not make that decision on my own. Maybe go and look at some other training ,including private, and you may find it suits you better. After all, not all training scenarios are for everyone. I hope you find something that is more to your liking. But next time, speak up through the proper channels at club rather than saying nothing and then airing it on a public forum I think you will find that people are actually a lot more approachable than you are giving them credit for. I am more than happy to take any issues to the chief Instructor for you if you feel there is a problem that can be fixed.

2 years? OMG ! And it's a sad state of affairs when clubs are 'picking and choosing' who they want. We had an intake at Agility Dog Club earlier this year but then decided that we needed to stop for a bit to look after our existing members - mainly due to comments like the ones made by the OP. We were finding that those who turned up regularly to the Foundation class and put in the work at home were not spending long periods there, so there was space for an intake every couple of months, but the next class up was becoming huge as that is probably the class where the most is taught so it is common for a longer period of time to be spent there. The philosophy at the moment is that once we have everyone moved up from the Foundation class (which we almost have) then we can use the Instructor rostered on to take that and split the next class in half, using the extra ring. We are also introducing a comprehensive Instructor training program so that eventually the classes can be restructured and more levels offered, leading to smaller class sizes for all. But we really struggle to find Instructors - 2 more have resigned over the past few weeks due to rising petrol costs and everyone else is stretched thin. And yes, I agree with you about advertising when there are no vacancies. We still have all the planned new member nights listed on our website even though they are not going ahead which is pretty silly I think. So, roll on my big shed !

I love the poker machine idea - too funny And I actually know someone who got some sponsorship for their training business from a pet food company for putting up an advertisement on the side of their shed. Unfortunately one of the conditions was visibility and I am on a 'no through road'- bugar! Staffn'toller, if I ever do get my shed I am looking at granitic sand for a floor - did a seminar on it in NSW and it wasn't too bad, the only dog I saw slip was a frenetic BC - and hell, they slip on grass too !

A lot of the same problems. I have space and a full set of equipment and would love to offer foundation and beginner classes but I would still need council permits, liability insurance, lighting or erect an indoor facility,(have nearly got the OH convinced about the benefits of a really big shed!) advertising costs, continuing professional development, plus continue my full time job to pay for all this as the money from classes wouldn't, that's for sure. Then there's all the wonderful paperwork that goes with operating your own business. It's something I would love to make a living from full time, but we don't have the 'agility population' here that they do in the US. (Where many people make a living from it) I already do a couple of private lessons with students from the club where I instruct, and have trouble fitting that in with working, instructing and trying to train my own dogs. Family life? What's that? Have thought about this long and hard and I think the only way you could make money full time would be to combine classes with something like running a boarding kennel, or another dog related business. Everyone's comments here have really got me thinking though.

Spot on the money Alanglen :D

There are only 4 specialist agility clubs in Vic. *Agility Dog Club Vic - not taking new members due to class sizes *K9 Club at KCC Park - not taking new members due to class sizes *Action Dogs at Doveton - no idea whether they are taking new members or not *Mitchell Agility at Broadford - no idea whether they are taking new members or not You may have to look at Obedience Club agility in your area.

Channel weaving is a method where the the poles are spaced apart (every 2nd pole is offset to the right) to create an opening or channel through the poles - dog learns first to run a wide channel, then the poles are gradually moved closer together until the dog needs to 'weave' to be able to get through the channel. (And just to confuse things you can teach the channel by slanting the poles as well although you don't have to.) 2X2 is a method made popular by Susan Garrett in 2002 where the dog learns to find the correct entry using just 2 poles, further poles are then added, but NOT in a straight line. It basically teaches the dog that weaving is just a series of 'correct entries.' There are very specific steps for how to add each set of 2 poles. Once you are up to around Step 8, it does start to resemble channel weaving but the principles and teaching methodology for getting there in the first place is very different. It is explained in detail in her book 'Shaping Success.' You can see it being trained on Youtube if you do a search. The example I like was from someone called 'Klok' or 'Kloka'- something like that. (Sorry, did a link for you, but it keeps telling me page is unavailable for some reason)

Yep - they're the ones. They start at 180 degrees, flat out on the ground and then work up to the V. I hate the way they always show the picture with them slanted, as I think a lot of people think taking stick in the ground ones and putting them into a V is a weave training method, when in fact it is a progression with a lot of steps before it. We were looking at using them to teach weaves at club as our Pres. makes them, but decided it would be a logistical nightmare to try and keep track of which stage everyone was up to as they are raised up very slowly, so stuck with the channel. In our foundation class, the channel is really wide and the dogs are taught to run between them to build up speed and enthusiasm. In the next class we usually set up 3 sets, varying widths of the channel and split class into groups depending where they are up to and that's hard enough to keep track of - and unfortunately some instructors put them all on the same width and don't bother to individualise For me, I would only bother to 'artificially teach' footwork if my dog was cross stepping or not building up speed moving through the channel after a number of reps. (ie: once he knew his job) I don't believe that single stepping is natural footwork for some dogs. Some dogs appear to have 'natural' footwork through the weaves and develop it very quickly - think of those BC's that almost 'fish' through the poles. (There's a 14 month old one in the DVD I mentioned that has weaves to die for - after about 6 weeks training) I believe it takes other dogs a long time to build up really efficient footwork and they have to experiment with it for a bit first. If you decide to go for the WAM's I would recommend looking at the Ann Croft CR article first - or even purchasing her DVD. If you're going to go to the expense of buying them, you want to get the best possible results. If you decide to stick with just the channel, I would recommend the Joe Canova DVD. (Also has a great 'trouble shooting' section that fixed up an inconsistent speed issue I was having with mine in just a few repetitions.) I can't give you any advice as to whether it is worthwhile to combine methods as I have never done it. Ultimately you need to decide if it is worth it or not. I do know that it is certainly 'legitimate' to do so as several US trainers do it. Elicia Calhoun uses 3 different methods to teach weaves. (Channel, WAM's and 2X2 free shaping for entries)

If you are going to use the WAM's to teach footwork, they need to lay flat on the ground first, to build the correct foundation so you would need to get a set made up, they usually have a metal base and some sort of a hinge to allow them to lay out flat. IMO you can't teach good footwork starting with the poles in a V - the poles need to start flat and are gradually raised to a V position - by the time the dog gets to do them in a V, the footwork pattern is pretty well established. By starting with them in a V you would end up with a dog lifting its feet higher than necessary which would not be an efficient weaving style, plus the tendency for the dog to get hung up on them if they are still experimenting with footwork. I guess it depends on how much success you are having with the channel method whether you combine this with another method or not. I have been happy with the results I have had using channels alone so can't see the need for the expense of another set, but I guess I would do it if I wasn't happy with their footwork. Both mine average around 3 seconds on a set of 12 poles, although there is a lot more inconsistency with the 'green dog' as to how fast he completes them. First dog trained this way I started with 3-4 poles and added more 2 at a time. With my youngest dog, I started with 6 (think I used 4 for a couple of repetitions until he got the idea) and then went straight to 12. I used the steps outlined in Joe Canova's 'World Class Weaves' DVD and was pretty happy with the results. One thing he does differently that has worked well for me is that he doesn't do varied entries for each stage, just head on and fast ! Once the dog can weave 12 poles well, he then introduces round the clock entries with the handler in different postions. This made a lot of sense to me(less variables to work on at a time) and I am very pleased with the results I am getting now with more difficult entries. So many choices and no right or wrong answers I guess. Good Luck with what you decide.

Assuming by slanted poles you mean WAM's (Weave-A-Matics?) where they start out flat on the ground and are gradually raised. There was an article in Clean Run (Feb. 2007) by Ann Croft where she begins training with channels then once her dog is running through the channel she changes to WAM's to teach footwork. It is quite a detailed article and is set out step by step. I haven't seen her 'Dream Weaves' DVD but would assume that it also covers combining these methods. Might be worth checking out if you are keen on doing this. I have 2 kelpies trained totally with channels and both have totally different footwork - go figure

If you want to use the channel method, PM me with an email address and I will send you the handout with instructions that I give to my beginning students

Well done Hopenfox Now I know who you are as I saw parts of Hope's (koolie?) run in Masters Agility - you were directly before me in the ring and I remember hearing your time as I was going in. Shame about the time but there were some challenging courses on the day with many tight sections where it was difficult to get up speed. (IMO anyway) You did so well to get around clear on that one, we made a mess of the first part with bad handler positioning at end of dogwalk leading to stuffing up the next section. I see from the brags thread that Silvawilow did really well. (I'm not complaining either, with 3 passes from 4 runs, including a Masters Jumping that I actually didn't forget for a change.) There were some other DOLers there as well I believe. I know Jess did extremely well with some passes with her incredible dog and I saw Pippi do some lovely work too.