kelpiechick

OK - thanks guys. As our mail is notoriously slow here, if it's only just arriving today for others I won't panic yet.

Has anyone else not received their Feb. issue yet? The Jan. issue was very late, so I don't want to contact them unless I am the only one, but as the earliest I can now receive it is Monday, this will put its arrival into March.

If you watch someone really running it well, you will see a big difference. And before the NSW DST'ers jump on a soapbox again - we don't seem to have the same problems in Vic. that you guys appear to do in regarding to brainwashing and making comments about other's systems outside the ring, fortunately.......... I am not saying that you will see a difference as one system is 'better' than another - we all think the system we follow is better and I don't think there's anything wrong with that. (Who wants a whole lot of clones running around on a course!) What I am trying to say is that if you watch an accomplished GD handler and an accomplished APHS handler for example, you will see a big difference in the body and location cues used as they negotiate the course - as a consequence the handling strategies that both adopt on course are usually very different. Both 'systems' work for both handlers and both will be able to give you a different rationale as to why they believe their 'system' works the way it does. And that's fine by me. LB, the problem you have in Vic. is that there are not all that many handlers truly running the GD system. Many think because they understand the rationale behind BCBL and RZ and use a threadle arm when handling a serpentine that they are handling a la GD - and it is so much more than this. And it can also take years to perfect (there are particular foundation skills that are absolutely vital to train first before you jump straight into it) - which is why a lot don't stick with it as they look for an option that might bring quicker results for them. As someone pointed out .... when the next seminar rolls along - and this is very true for a lot of people but for those of us who have been committed to trying to learn to handle in a particular system for more than 2 years now, well the brainwashing comments are just downright rude IMO. You will always get seminar junkies - plus when you are starting out I think you do need to go to lots of seminars and try different things before you get the feel of how you want to run your dog. How did we all make a decision about which handling system to adopt anyway? I tried lots of things before I became 'brainwashed' (as it was so lovingly referred to.) The problem with seminars is that many are also narrow minded about them and think of them in handling terms only. Don't forget the training component. You may not want to handle in a particular way but I will bet that those not running the GD system could have still learned lots of valuable training ideas (especially in Laura's foundation seminar) which would have been compatible with their own system. I would imagine the same thing would also be true for Ronda Carter. I think it's best to be as open minded as possible when starting out before you decide if a particular system will work for you -but once you decide then you need to be consistent with it, and not adopt 'a bit of this and a bit of that.' I have had a private lesson with a US trainer who does not follow the GD system and got loads out of it because she respected the system that I am trying to run and developed her lesson to focus on things between our systems that are compatible.(yes, there are quite a few things) .... and it was brilliant. So even though we may not be handling in the same way, I would have no hesitation in working with this person again. Pity not all of us seem to have this same level of respect but can't wait to point out 'inconsistencies' in particular systems - or as perceived to them anyway. And why someone would think a particular move in a system was inconsistent but then turn around and say that they follow this system? is beyond me. LB, I am not entered tomorrow but next time I see you at a trial I am happy to point out one handler using GD system that I would recommend you watch and you will see a big difference in how this handler runs the course - again, may not always work for them - but you will definitely see the difference in the strategy used. HiYa Pippi :rolleyes:

And would only be considered an inconsistency by someone not actively running or fully understanding his system I would imagine. Which is why it makes no sense to some. LB, I would recommend you look at the SG 'One Jump' DVD - and watch how she trains serp foundation - middle jump first , where the dog is rewarded for coming to 'threadle arm' (as she refers to it on both serp and threadle handling' ) - if you understand blind cross body line, you will see that it is incorrect to describe this as an 'off arm' - as the BCBL has changed when you present the threadle arm - the position of reinforcement zone has also changed, which is what the dog is driving to. Also remember in this system, change of arm means change of line. (she demonstrates that pretty well on the DVD too) To further take away any inconsistency when using serp handling, you only ever present threadle arm when you are then going to turn the dog back in the other direction as you do with a serpentine or threadle. (or even a RFP ) SG goes through this on the DVD and explains it way better than I possibly can. Plus she demonstrates the way that she trains serpentine from the beginning. (Backchain jumps 2 and 3 first to build up the understanding, before adding jump 1) Last time she was here, one thing she stressed was that every time you used a threadle arm to change the dog's line - you immediately then changed the line again in the other direction (again, imagine a serpentine in various arrangements) Even if you stop and reward your dog in the middle for coming to hand if you have to. If you don't do this, then you have indeed created an inconsistency. And threadle arm is not used in the Derrett/Garrett system in any other way. You wouldn't use it to change your dog's line and then continue straight on this line as is used in some other systems. Running in this system your dog should eventually understand ' if a threadle arm is presented I change my line and will then also be changing my line again immediately afterward.' Imagining it as 'one move' rather than 3 separate jumps should take away the notion of the third jump being a flick. But if you are seriously considering handling in this system, break it down and do the foundation for each 'move' first - takes some time but well worth it IMO. Good Luck! Edited to Add : Good advice Pippi

Which one are you trying to access? Vic. agility website or VCA agility website? (2 different sites) Have never used the vca site - which is what you have on your link - Try this one.

That's great news Tassie :rolleyes: As a fellow member of the 'only need one more pass' club - I am very happy for you ! Must have been all that brilliant work you did at the GD seminar - hope some of it rubbed off on me when I got to hold her at the start line In the meantime......I'm off to circle run!

5D uses serpentine handling rather than FC. These particular exercises are also explained in detail on the 3rd DVD - Great Dog, Great Handler.

Everything is OK here although we can still see the smoke from Kinglake in the distance. Glenvale, Humevale and around the back of Whittlesea was the closest it came to us but that was way too close for comfort. The nearest flames that we could see were at Glenvale - I found out today that one of the houses destroyed there belonged to a former work colleague who has lost everything as has another at Strathewan. I still haven't been able to get in touch with a very close friend who was at Marysville so praying that she and her OH are OK. Whittlesea looks like a refugee camp at the moment, I can't even begin to understand what it must be like or even the scale of it all, it just defies belief. And the stories of people losing family members and those losing all their dogs are just heartbreaking. Hope everyone else on DOL is safe too.

Luckily for us a southerly has sprung up which appears to be pushing it away from us now, although we're still on alert - not so lucky for others though I guess. We had a spot fire about 10 mins up the road and apparently some poor family has lost their house. Friend from near Broadford was evacuated but has just sent a text to say she has the all clear to go home. OH and I are still going to take turns to keep watch on it during the night. It's terrifying from this distance, can only imagine what it must be like to see it even closer. All those poor people who have been directly affected.

Been standing on the verandah all evening watching Wandong and Kinglake burn. It's worse now that it's dark as the smoke has cleared and you can see the flames. Really scary. Hard to imagine just how big it is. Don't think I'll be getting any sleep tonight, as if it gets any closer we'll be getting out of here.

Hey, the obstacles are the 'easy' part. Nearly all my course faults are caused by what I do on the flat linking them up

So true ! Main reason why I only run one particular organisation in Vic. and not another.

You poor thing - I would hate to have seen that. Glad your dog was OK I made my OH pull down the fence my dog broke his leg on and replace it with something else, as I couldn't bear to look at it afterwards either.

Padding? It's what they do to goalposts. And have break away tires if deemed necessary. Hey, I'm not the one suggesting the tyre should be banned in the first place ! I happen to agree with most of your post so I sincerely hope your whole thing wasn't aimed at me - hopefully just the padding part ! All I'm suggesting is that if someone is going to blame a piece of equipment for an accident, it's not just the fact of it being pegged down or not that could cause an accident - although obviously I would prefer it pegged for safety. Padding? Yeah, might make a tyre frame safer, although we have padding on the top and sides of our goalposts that my junior soccer team train on and one of my boys still broke his wrist defending a high ball when he connected with the top of the post. Personally I would probably prefer minimal frame or even none on a tyre design. One of our new breakaway ones has just one narrow bar on one side only and that seems to be one of the safer ones I have seen. But only time will tell. However when trialling, there is a whole lot of potentially unsafe equipment out there and I believe you owe it to your dog to proof their obstacle performance as much as possible before letting them loose on this. Also to train severe entries without the stress of the competition ring, especially on contacts. (even though I hope I won't ever get a tyre or contact obstacle with an 'unsafe' entry, who knows? At least I think my dogs could handle these by judging their own approach without me babysitting) And most judges are pretty good about safety if you mention concerns to them. We had a masters agility run a few months back where the judge removed the seesaw as it had no non-slip paint finish on it and it was a wet day. After checking that there wasn't another one available and getting the OK from the VCA rep, out it went as both judge and VCA rep.stated that safety should override obstacle requirements on a course. For me personally, I would have scratched if it had remained in, (or made up my own course at this point) after being out for so long, I won't ever risk my dog. But having said that, I have never seen a tyre on a course here that I have deemed unsafe to the point where I won't run. If I did and it concerned me so much, then again I would 'vote with my feet'. BTW, Not even sure why the one at Nats wasn't pegged down - this would probably be unusual. The tyre in question was located on a straight line of obstacles. So maybe an oversight? If so, a terrible one for that poor dog.

Oooh, that is a weird looking spread and I had forgotten about those, I believe that one belongs to the RAS and so only gets out once a year at the Royal, (which I don't run) so don't see it very often. Yeah, you're right, that could probably cause some damage too. What I was referring to is the side by side touching jumps (that some judges in Vic. just love - there were some in Masters Jumping at the Nationals) As most of the jumps we use here are unpainted metal uprights, which in the sunlight is just about invisible, I believe that our dogs only see the jump bars and not the uprights when the jumps are arranged in this way. There was a good article in Clean Run last year some time about the 'hierarchy' of what dogs see which would support this. If this is true, (again my belief only, have no evidence) then I think it is just a matter of time before a dog hits the joining uprights with its front leg/s as it takes the bar, especially when coming straight on at speed. Would hate to see the result of this as it pretty closely simulates what happened to my dog when he broke his leg. (although not on agility equipment) And going back to the tyre, although I agree that the tyre at Nationals should have been pegged, the idea a dog hitting the frame at speed, even if pegged, worries me just as much. Not sure what the answer is though. Another interesting point GD raised when here on the subject of tyre crashes, is that a lot of countries have all but effectively 'banned' them (not the US I believe, but GB and some of the European countries) but when they run Worlds, suddenly the tyre is there and many dogs have not trained on them for a year - apparently they get brought back out and trained in a mad rush a few weeks before Worlds. He believes that this also contributes to the number of crashes that occur. I don't really have a strong opinion either way about whether tyres should be banned or not, but I just hope whatever happens we get some consistency between the states and if they are banned then they stay out in all states for fairness sake - not here in some, out in others.

I curious to know what they are? Cloth tunnel for one! Hideous piece of equipment, especially when you get the old heavyweight canvas ones , plus I have also seen a lightweight calico one with no grip for the dogs that twisted when every dog went in, even though it was supposedly staked, and finally had to be torn to get a small dog out of it I believe that one carries the potential for both physical and 'psychological' injuries for our dogs. Have also seen a dog slide in mud and hit the barrel, which wasn't pretty. At least there seem to be options for making a tyre relatively safer (whether or not they are effective is a whole different story that I'm not going to debate without more evidence) but haven't heard too many options for making a chute safer, not disussed anyway. First piece of equipment that I would like banned. The other has to do with a particular 2 jump arrangement common at Vic. trials, don't think it would be an issue for you in NSW though as I believe you use winged jumps - as these are highly visible, it would take the problem (which is to do with dog's vision of the particular set up) out of the equation.

Any piece of agilty equipment has the potential to cause a dog harm - even though it might be unlikely, the risk is still there and I think we all know that. But in most cases the risks are minimal so I wouldn't be stressed every time I saw a tyre. And it's good to be aware of the importance of trying to perform every piece of equipment safely. But if you go out there thinking that the tyre is the bogeyman before you even start that won't be a very positive association for your dog. As the owner of a dog that was injured in an accident (not with the tyre) and missed a whole year of agility trialling, take if from me that it's not healthy go out and run with the idea in the back of your mind that something's going to happen to your dog - I did that for about a year after returning to trialling and ended up shutting my dog down before I realised what my fear was doing to him. IMO there are a couple of other pieces of equipment that pose way more danger to dogs than the tyre does. We use displaceable tyres at the club where I train and there have been quite a few trials in Victoria where they have been used too. Even before that I have never witnessed a dog injuring itself performing the tyre at club - but this is not done on lead as a previous poster mentioned- I agree that could be a bit of a recipe for disaster. For those who attended the GD seminar, I totally agree with his take on the tyre and dogs that hit it - he sets up some amazing proofing exercises with the tyre to try to ensure that this never happens to his dogs. I guess no matter how careful you are there are always exceptions though. But there are ways to minimise the risk. And if you are training at a club (Or trialling) and have some concerns about the safety of any of the equipment, then make sure you speak up.

Only an hour to get there? That would be a close venue for me It's going to take me closer to 2 hours and I honestly don't know how I will get my butt out of bed, but this is still a way better decision I think. Still going to be pretty unbearable temperature wise. You're right JulesP about the timing of this, but unfortunately when you book an overseas presenter you have to fit in with what time of the year is available for them - and it pretty much appears to be either the middle of our Winter or the middle of our Summer as we are working around both their trialling and European/US teaching commitments. Plus they generally tack Australian visits onto coming from somewhere else. (I know when Elicia was here, we organised it to fit in with her teaching in Japan, otherwise the cost of the air fares would have made the seminar cost astronomical) It's also harder when World Championships are held in September as those attending don't want a big chunk of time off from their dogs in the months leading up to that. And for a long time, Victoria was an agilty wasteland in regard to seminar presenters even coming here, so I'm grateful that I actually don't have to travel interstate for once to go to a quality seminar , even if it means coping with this hideous weather. (Winter- bring it on!)

Well as I am planning a dirt floor, I guess the foundations are already down Are you for real with the updated forecast? Just went out and bought the daggiest floppy hat with the biggest brim I could find - and I hate wearing anything other than a baseball cap. Not much shade at KCC Park either.

SG is rereleasing a modified version of this at some stage, last time she was here there were a lot of queries about it and she said that it wasn't meant to be as 'industrial strength' as it was interpreted by many from the original book - especially there was a lot of misconceptions about the time spent in the crate. I considered it for my youngest dog, then decided it was a bit full on so put it away - but I recently reread the book after a student consulted me about using it - and found that I actually did about 80% of it with him anyway (She ran the program 'as is' from the book for 3 weeks and says that she has found a big difference even from this time frame) With my next dog, I think I will probably combine it with the crate games DVD and Control Unleashed (you don't need to have an 'out of control dog' to benefit from many of the ideas in this resource and it's also just been released as a DVD) just to take the edge off it a little bit. However, like anything else she has written, it is an excellent program - whether you put in the time and effort and follow it to the letter, or whether you modify it to suit - providing the basic principles of NILIF are still consistently applied.

Just had an email from a friend who attended the foundation day in Sydney. Apparently the box work group had to work on an old horse arena and the ground was so hot that they stopped every 10 mins. or so to hose it down - plus themselves fully clothed ! So don't worry about the bathers Superminty. Hopefully we will at least have some grass under our feet - even if it's brown.

Me too I'm auditing all 4 days - too hot for my lazy assed kelpies to do anything resembling work ! (someone forgot to tell them they are working dogs)

If you have one of the more common rectangular box type, you can make a volume control yourself by drilling a hole in the back and inserting a short screw. The tighter the screw goes in, the more the sound 'lessens' if that makes sense. Karen Pryor also has a 'clicker plus' where you can program your own individual sound - it has a choice of 'click, chirp, ping or trill'.

Just thought those who feed EP might like to know that some lines will incur a price rise from Feb. 2nd. Glad I heard this after I had already bought up big today!

Yep- we did that one too as 'Musical Chairs' - the people who missed out on a chair had to make the dog belonging to someone in a chair break to take their chair. Had almost forgotten how much fun that seminar was as it was the first one I ever went to and a while back now - the dog I took turned 14 on Monday. (Seems like yesterday) BTW great results with Leo Don't think I'm brave enough to test the kelpies out.