oakway

I am of the opinion that the RSPCA do not raid/ inspect these places or rarely do. As far as I am concerned it would cost them to much money to look after dogs if they were seized.

I don't care if god himself presented Oscars Law. The pathway to heaven is paved with good intentions. The problem is that this Oscars Law is not what it seems to be. The people that attended did so in good faith and had no idea that there were also supporting the eradication of the beginning of ALL breeders. What is written is fact, if you don't want to believe it, then don't. What started as to bring the awareness of puppy farms to the public was infiltrated by others that want to see the eradication of dog breeding and ALL breeders associated with it. FACT. It did not matter if some of those breeders are ethical registered breeders with nothing but the dogs best interest at heart. What registered breeders are now fighting for, is their very right to be able to breed, in fact their very existence as Registered Ethical Breeders. All that Oscars Law has done is to throw the baby out with the bath water. The sad part is that most of you can't see the infiltration of some organisations that used you to do their dirty work. We as registered breeders are tied up in knots as to regulations and codes of ethics as to what we can and can't do. Puppy farmers are not bound by any regulations health or otherwise. We as registered breeders are and have to abide by them. What shame it's not the public reading all this. After reading all this I don't believe Oscars Law would have the support of the public they had last Saturday.

Thank you Sno Paws from the bottom of my heart.

I don't believe that the topic needs separating. I see no where in this topic where registered breeders do not see or fully support the closure of puppy farms. Unfortunately the boot seems to be on the other foot.

Nekhbet, do you not think nine years old is a little old for a first litter? What you or I or anyone here thinks makes no difference, there is nothing illegal about what they have done. If they dock the tails on the pups then they will get a visit Yes your right.

Was that all it was for, though? No it was to push for new laws for breeding establishments and stopping the sales of dogs in pet shops. Yes - that was my point behind my question. And if it is a push for laws, then some organisation is going to have be granted licence to enforce/police those laws. And who do we think that might be? I'll whistle you point.

Yes, ANKC registered dogs are in the minority. Australia is overrun with crossbred mutts and designer dogs (the more expensive crossbred mutts) and poorly bred examples of a breed by people who say, "Oh no, we are not members of a dog club, we dont believe in all that showing and stuff!" Of course they are happy to take your money though and will often charge you more than what a registered breeder would charge you. "Come in sucker" is what is practised on many naive puppy buyers. Go and make friends with a breeder at a dog show. Learn from the breeders what their dogs are like. Offer to learn how to handle a dog at a show, or ask the breeder if they will show you how they train their dogs. Become an apprentice dog person and you can learn a lot about dogs. It will be education that you keep with you for life. Those of us who were lucky enough to be given this education from experienced breeders have found it to be incredibly useful. Souff You will find, as registered pure breed breeders, we wholeheartedly concur with what has been written by Souff

Toy dog due to legal reasons we can not answer your question. If I said what I truly thought the list owner and I would end up in court. And that ain't gunna happen.

Yes, it is all designed to deter people from breeding dogs. Oscars Law included. We have been branded as lunatics touting conspiracy theories, but we are not. We are thinking people who know that there will be not much other than mutts and generic brown dogs in the future, and probably riddled with inherited diseases that will all be blamed back on to those "terrible dog breeders". Politicians will run with the issue that will sell well on the telly to a believing public. Add plenty of emotion to it and voila, it is a vote winner! They are not interested in the future of good dogs. Well, they might be when they find that they can no longer buy a cocker spaniel, a corgi, or some of the breeds with lesser numbers. Then we dog breeders who still have a couple of specimens of a particular breed can go public, get a high profile person alongside, and raise funds for the endangered species ....... just like the animal libbers are doing right now for their cause. Wonder how much money they collected at the rally ...... Souff I believe Oscars Law was used by animal libbers to try and stop the breeding of ALL dogs. The pet owning public fell for it. With no thought to the fact that they were actually depriving themselves of the very dogs they thought they came to protect. If there are NO breeders of dogs where will YOU get your next dog ?. talking to the organiser of this rally for a long time, no that is not true at all! they target farms and it was about FARMS. registered breeders are not mentioned in all of this. read prisoner for profit website and you will see what im talking about. prisoners for profit That may have been the original intentions but we are all aware it did not end up that way.

I do not understand why any person would think that we as registered breeders would stand shoulder to shoulder with animal liberationists, the very people that are trying to bring about our demise.

Unfortunaltly not everyone is that smart nor selfless. Its shouldn't have happened, here's where the RSPCA and the like should be stepping in and making noise What has the RSPCA got to with it ? It's a moral issue, no one has done anything to harm the dog. The fact of the matter is, that the bitch should have been de sexed long ago. For the dogs own health sake I believe the bitch would be better off aborted and desexed.

ok you dont understand my point. I never said you make a profit did I. I said the money that your puppy buys give you contributes to your hobby - it does help in some way, in some instances in a large way and occasionally a profit, maybe not for you but for some registered breeders it does. If you dont understand what contributes means look in the dictionary. I suppose you can keep laughing when you blame everyone else for your woes. Easier to sit back and point the finger then go, hey great idea lets give it a go. I must say I am dissapointed by not surprised at either of your attitudes. No wonder pedigree memberships are slipping if you two and your sarcasm in this thread are the 'examples'. I receive nothing to contribute to breeding. Isn't it about time you got the point. I have no idea what others do, I was under the impression that you were speaking to me!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

so when you sell your puppies, and people pay you money it just *poof* dissapears into the ether? I'm not saying to make or aim for profit. I am saying there is money changing hands here and it is there in order to help you at least somewhat in your endeavours is it not? You are making some effort to recoup your litter costs in order to maintain your ability to breed, show or whatever else you chose to do with your dogs, no? NO.........I AM USUALLY AT A LOSS. I breed to improve the breed not make money. The money I receive pays for little or nothing, I also do it for the love of the breed.

If you had read it properly I am saying the exact opposite. Stand up, make yourselves heard and educate the public FFS grow up. You cannot say your puppy sales to owners do not in any way contribute to help keep your hobby afloat so pull your head in, otherwise you would be giving them away. This is the shitty attitude that will see the demise of the pedigree dog. You know why? You'll play everyone right into the hands of the mass marketing pet stores and farmers. I'm on YOUR side. I WANT to see more purebreed dogs but the attitudes coming from some pedigree breeders frankly stinks. But no .. right we just wont share our lollies with the other children What in the name of god makes you think we get any money out of it ?. What a joke. Most of us would be lucky to break even after a litter. We breed to improve the breed and maybe just get a better one next litter.

you cannot speak for everyone. Not every ANKC breeder is a small time, living room lounging dog home. THere are many who have a more professional kennel set up in Australia. The ANKC should be stepping up for it's registered breeders and it's not. Why? Because they don't police their own COE and hence throw YOU reg breeders to the slaughter of government laws. Why do people turn to backyard breeders and pet shops for animals? Because MAJORITY still think that only reg breeders breed for show dogs and if you want a pet you go to a pet shop. And that show dogs are all in bred and REALLY expensive. THe reason mass and oodle breeders succeed is their marketing. Reg breeders, you are paying an organisation to market and represent you and they're failing. So what do you do ... you want to pull yourselves in futher and cut the nose to spite the face. Where was the big ANKC stand to show people who to go to for a purebred pup? Not at the rally. Why do people believe it ... because reg breeders have not had advertising campaigns, have not trusted the public, and have not trusted each other. Look at some of the posts on DOL "OMG I went showing my dog and could you believe it, members of the public kept talking to me and wanting to touch my dog THE HORROR" or "Oh I got this misspelled email, *chortle chortle* someone of that standing must be stupid and cannot have a pup from me". I find them really upsetting sometimes particularly when pack mentality sets in on these threads. It's really really disappointing. Who keeps dog breeds alive? Not just breeders but PEOPLE WHO OWN THEM AND PERPETUATE THEIR POSITIVE POINTS. Who helps pay for your 'hobby' ... the puppy buyers. The happy owners who get your beautiful puppies. But no more and more I see unattainable breeders, people being turned off breeding their favourite breed properly and being attacked like a gazelle in a lion pack. So of course people go do it backyard. Breeding to improve the breed is not just health tests and the show ring, it's breeding more dogs to perpetuate the blood and gene pool. It's marketing your dogs for the right families waiting out there for their next pet. Where is this happening though? Closed dogs shows, closed purebreed events and private homes. Why are purebreed events not family fun days more often? Offer neuter classes so pet owners with pedigree dogs can have a bit of fun too. Because yes, they're dogs and they're FUN. We forgot THAT too. I love purebreed dogs, with all my heart there is nothing else I would want to own. But you cannot blame their dissapearence simply on animal liberation. Or on the councils. If you dont step up and make yourselves heard either then your voice will be lost. To win this you need to get people at their own marketing game, shout loudly about your own plight and positives and people will join. But sit here grumbling away to yourselves and you will be swept under the carpet. A yes a good reprimand is in order for the ANKC breeders. Not only had they better put up and shut up, but they better do it with a smile on their face. It is all their fault, BYB, puppy farms, what the public thinks and how animal rights people behave. The sooner they admit this, the sooner they can get back to breeding your next purebred dog. ' Who helps pay for your 'hobby' ... the puppy buyers.' Statements like that make it clear that it really is time to say, No puppies for sale. Check with your animal rights group to locate a new and imporved, inspected and approved large scale breeding facility to purchase your new puppy. For the greater good. :D :D :D Careful some of them might just believe you.

Should I be away for the day mine are in their kennel runs with another for company with toys. Sometimes I also put the radio on.

Never....I let the dogs do that with bones.

Lucky you. Won't be long now and you will be able to have cuddles.

I always suggest going to a water bed shop and purchasing the ones used for water beds. Absolutely flat and strong and have an excellent temperature control. Sometimes you can can purchase second hand ones that are just perfect for dogs.

I would have suggested that the litter is aborted immediately and the bitch desexed.

Well it does save the animal from being opened up to be desexed again if it is a bitch. Many bitch have had this happen if in a rescue situation and there is NO tattoo.

Yes, it is all designed to deter people from breeding dogs. Oscars Law included. We have been branded as lunatics touting conspiracy theories, but we are not. We are thinking people who know that there will be not much other than mutts and generic brown dogs in the future, and probably riddled with inherited diseases that will all be blamed back on to those "terrible dog breeders". Politicians will run with the issue that will sell well on the telly to a believing public. Add plenty of emotion to it and voila, it is a vote winner! They are not interested in the future of good dogs. Well, they might be when they find that they can no longer buy a cocker spaniel, a corgi, or some of the breeds with lesser numbers. Then we dog breeders who still have a couple of specimens of a particular breed can go public, get a high profile person alongside, and raise funds for the endangered species ....... just like the animal libbers are doing right now for their cause. Wonder how much money they collected at the rally ...... Souff I believe Oscars Law was used by animal libbers to try and stop the breeding of ALL dogs. The pet owning public fell for it. With no thought to the fact that they were actually depriving themselves of the very dogs they thought they came to protect. If there are NO breeders of dogs where will YOU get your next dog ?.

Why are we so special........................Who said we were????????????????????? Go and have a look at the rules and regulations we are already bounded by....................sheeeeesh. Use good ethical registered breeders and don't buy from puppy farms or pet shops and you may help the decline of puppy farming.

Oh I am so sorry, I have been looking at list for to long since last Saturday. I think I shall go and TRY and relax and watch the Vicar Of Dibley.

Hmm, not always, as you know. And I am NOT having a go at you. I would never do that. Never None of these moves to licence/inspect/regulate/harrass/torment and annoy breeders will improve the lives of registered purebred dogs one iota. Steve (another thread) There are no hard stats. Why does federal law need to be changed to outlaw pets from pet shops? the opinion I got didn't think so. I don't give a rats what people breed, as long as the pups are as healthy as they can be, and the parents are kept as they should be kept. Which is NOT in those abortions called puppy farms. OodlieDoodlies which I think are a bit of a joke, and cross breds are all good with me. Not purebreds, but not their fault, and purebreds are not always what people want. 50 years in the future, if there are any dogs remaining - the citizens of the time will be appalled that the primitive people of the 20th and 21st century were so very backward that they thought it was satisfactory to keep such a social intelligent being as a dog, which had proved time and again, his worth to man, in squalid, disgusting conditions, where he suffered terribly and didn't develop his full potential. And that governments failed to take the necessary steps to free him from this cruelty. Unfortunately there are always too many people with different agendas involved in things of this type, and the altruistic ones who want only freedom and happiness for the dogs, are bulldozed, and the dogs continue to suffer. Why do I bother? The parents are kept as they should be kept? Who decides what is the way the parents should be kept? Many people who keep their dogs in kennels on concrete floors do so because they have no choice because that is what their council says they have to do to own them. In fact most people who keep their breeding dogs in numbers of more than say 3 or 4 which sleep in the house and live the way I think they should live are doing so illegally. They are the rougue breeders and they are the ones who will be pinged with any new laws - not the ones who have complied with council planning laws and have lots of pens with concrete floors. The dogs are removed from their loungerooms though many would prefer they could keep their dozen or so small breed dogs inside the house with them. Most of us are breaching council by laws and most of us do everything we can to avoid council or RSPCA visits because we know they will make us keep our dogs differently if they allow us to keep them at all. I spoke with a registered breeder today from Queensland She owns 160 acres and owns 6 dogs and has been living where she does for over 10 years in a rural zone. She now has to pay $1500 permit fee to be able to breed dogs on her property as well as yearly rego fees and council engineers are now assessing what she will need to do to be able to get this permit as far as housing for her dogs are concerned. Her breed doesnt cope well with being separated from each other and they have lived in the house all their lives. She is going to desex her dogs and never breed again if they make her house them in kennels to be able to breed them. I dont blame her. She is a rougue breeder. Steve if you are referring to my comment as to rogue breeders you may have misunderstood my meaning. I meant the breeders doing it for rip offs. Nothing to do with caring breeders.