oakway

Thought I had better advise that some breeds in Australia no not have a breed club.

Exactly!!!!! With a bad experience like this purchasers tend to tar us with the same brush. But in the breeders favour, they were at least up front over the condition and we must be fair in our appraisal of others. After that, for me, it was all down hill.

I'm sorry if i'm getting this wrong. But my point is dog do go to the vets healthy, I ever stated all the time it may only be 5-10 time in their entire lives but for a number of reasons they have to go to the vet. When a bitch is presented for health test or vaccinations which ever they are she is seen by a vet. 9 times out of 10 vets do a quick look over as part of their consolation regardless the reason she is there. For example A vet that put a dog under for hip test without a quick check needs to have their licence revoked IMO. I would not take a litter or dam into a clinic either but vets do house calls IF needed, not saying every litter needs checking. Have you never had a c-section or mastitis or retained products in any of your bitches? great if you haven't but some of these situations arise during breeding regularly, even in the best of situations in the best kennels. Puppies also have an array of little complications that sometimes occur. (Please note I am not speaking in experience just research in my progress in becoming a breeder) Have you never a dog with a stomach bug, any minor issue (like licked a toad ) or suffered any aged sickness, blindness or arthritis issue or needed medication what so ever? A statement of 100% healthy is a very bold statement. Please note I don't question your ethics or methods of breeding and selling your puppies. Just saying even the most experienced owner/exhibitor/breeder and vet can not predict and assume they know very thing about their dog inside and out 100% of the time. And Some are willing to breed a less then 100% healthy dog for whatever reason. Which is why health checks are in place, and we recommend puppy buyers see the litter, dam + sire if possible and Any health checks available. I never meant that buyers should request or demand health checks, thats crazy! just ask what is available (and yes do the research to know what is required to be available) and if they feel comfortable with the breeder then continue on their purchase otherwise move on. Of course buyers should ask for the results of health tests. I give puppy buyers a copy to take with them. I very rarely have a dog with a stomach bug. And if I take the dog to the emergency vet for toad or tick envenomation, they do not generally check the dog, they specifically check to solve or ameliorate the problem And some areas do not have travelling vets, as some areas have hopeless travelling vets. Day to day health is assessed by activity level and behaviour, colour of gums and mucous mebrananes, look of skin, appetite, droppings, frequency of urination and quantity of water drunk and general behaviour. I mentioned that after 10 years the dogs are probably going to have more vet visits, which covers what you mention about arthritis etc. Some do and some don't. I am not willing to breed a less than healthy dog. All the dogs in my breeding program are 100% healthy, otherwise they are not in it. They don't get the runs in any major way, they don't have bad skin, they don't scratch, blah blah. IMHO, every breeder should adopt the same attitude. There is no dog so winning, or so good looking that he can afford not to have premium health. And don't think I am the only breeder with this attitude. I don't want dogs I have to run down to the vet every couple of weeks, or every month, I don't want to pay the bills. I want healthy dogs who don't need the vet. Any deviations from the above, or some other signs, it is time for the vet. My job is to ensure the dogs are healthy. If all the above are good, why should the dog go to the vet? All he would do is what I have done, and maybe take the temperature and say all good. IMHO, people who cannot tell whether their dogs are healthy or not should not be breeding. Perhaps in the beginning, while they are learning they should have the vet check the dog, but it should not be needed aftewards. If the dog is genetically healthy, is wormed regularly, is treated for parasites, is fed correctly and handled correctly, there is no need for frequent vet visits. As mentioned to SSM - I am not talking about health checks - ie, heart, HP, LP etc, but visits to the GP vet as you mentioned. Some breeders do like to take their dogs for frequent checks, and that is how you tune your "eye" to know whether the dogs are healthy or not. I don't care whether others take their dogs to the vet every day. That is their business. My business is to breed healthy dogs from healthy parents. I see no reason to be continually taking them to the vet. The people to question my ethics are not the people on this forum, but my buyers, and over nearly 40 years I have had many repeat purchases. All breeders are not the same, and all breeders do not operate in the same way. And I guarantee my dogs' health when I sell them. I hope that qualifies my attitude a little more. :thumbsup:

What some of us are trying to say is that we have some breeds that don't have hip, elbow, heart etc., health issues. Yet we have people asking us for health certificates because they were on a dog list and they said to ask for one. I believe this is something we need to thrash out. You can't say carte blanche ask for health certificates where none are available some breeds. You mentioned dental check, well here is MY answer, somebody else may use a vet but most breeders will tell you open the dog mouth and have a look if its teeth are dirty give it a bone to clean them. Mine get a chicken frame every second night and don't have dirty teeth to start with. Vaccinations, well we all know about over vaccination these days don't we. Not only that but you can buy killed vaccine and administer it yourself. Kennel cough, well most of our dogs are not vaccinated for it because their are so many strains of it and if the dog are shown on a regular basis they tend to build up their own immunity. Most dog are treated for fleas and worms monthly including heart worm. No need for a vet as most of us purchase it off the internet at a cheaper price. Bitches in season here are mated locally or sent by air interstate. Mine don't go to vets, for ultrasounds. I just wait and see what happens and personally why would I want to take a perfectly healthy bitch to where sick dogs are. Now I am not having a go at anybody. To each their own. But in some breeds you can't ask for what doesn't happen. Lets face it, most people that come to me for a puppy only want to take home a happy healthy puppy and I have never had a buyer ask what were the reasons why I mated the bitch. If they did my simple answer would be in the hope of getting a better one. Cheers all.

I do agree that the controlling body will be able to do little but at least they will have in writing an official complaint. They may in time question the breeder if sufficiant complants are laid. It has happened, so I was informed the other day. :)

Yep. Apart from anything else, there is the question of the bitch's well being. I think a vet check is a wise idea not just for the future health of the pups, but to ensure that the planned breeding is appropriate for the bitch. No, why would you take a healty dog to the vet. I have a 7 year old bitch here and the only time she has seen a vet was for her baby puppy vaccination. She is a Champion and has produced two litters. Two pups kept from her fist litter for showing are both Grand Champions and her second litter keepers are on the way to their titles. Her next trip to the vet will be for a spey. Healthy dogs here don't go to vets. :)

At this stage I would consider the pup defective and act accordingly and so would most caring breeders. For goodness sake it is hard enough to sell puppies in this economic climate let alone antagonise a purchaser.

Hang on a minute what about the dogs that don't have any health checks or DNA testing available at this stage of time. I was asked for a hip dysplasia certificate because the the people had been told to ask for one. There was no way I could convince these purchasers that that there were none done for my breed. Where did they get this advise, from people on a dog list. :) Please advise to ask for health, DNA check where it is advisable for that breed. Don't forget that the more test's where applicable, on each generation, the greater the percentage of puppies MAY be clear by parentage over a period of time.

I would be one of the first to say that this may just go away with time, but the first thing you do is offer back the deposit. Then advise the purchasers that you will contact them if they still want to be advised if the condition clears. I personally would be asking the purchasers to speak to my vet if they were still interested and be advised by the vet. By with-holding the deposit it gives honest caring breeders a bad name and that reflects on all of us.

Are they ANKC registered breeders ?. If they are I would put it in writing to their states controlling body as a complaint. Breeders like this we do not need.

+1

Not to anybodies knowledge. Supposedly only 2 in the country and they are residents of W A. One of these is being shown in NSW at the moment.

Don't quote me I heard they were not in business any more. Davcar may be what you are looking for now. :)

In SA, the only way to get a titre test done is to have the blood work sent to the US. As far as I know, you can't get titre testing done in a lab in Australia. There are quite a few vets who are happy to send the lab work off though. Cost me the same price as the vaccination to have the titre test. Was happy with that - especially peace of mind. My girl is much better (less allergies) without annual vaccination. Her immunity is the highest level. All the major path labs in Australia offer Titre Testing and Pfizer now have in-house titre testing. Our clinic has an account with VetPath in WA, purely for the purpose of Titre Testing. Just for interests sake, here's an article about Vaccination from the Vet Path Lab Newsletter: http://www.greatdanerescue.com.au/Docs/vaccination_vinfo.pdf And here are the latest recommendations (2010) from the Vaccination Guideline Group, which was set up by the WSAVA: http://www.wsava.org/PDF/Misc/VaccinationGuidelines2010.pdf Hi Stormie, Has the in house testing been released. I knew it was was coming but I was not sure when it was to be released. It is going to make life a lot easier with this available.

The majority of dogs should have a full mouth BY 6 months. The deciduous teeth are not required to "guide" the permanent teeth into position. If you wait until you see signs of infection, you have waited too long. I would re-word what you wrote and say it IS "usually" the broken tooth that infects. When any tooth is fractured and the pulp is esposed (the inside chamber containing the nerves and blood vessels), it will die if it is not attended to within about 48 hours. 100% of dead teeth become infected. 100% of infected teeth develop abscesses. The developing abscess is at the root apex, the tip of the root. This is also where you have a developing adult tooth bud. The infection can cause major issues with the developing tooth, all the way up to killing it. This is not necessarily visible from the outside. Have a quick look a the photograph I have attached. This is in a 4.5 month old GSD that had broken a bay tooth. No one thought it was an issue. You can see what the crown looked like with the swabs over it, and then you can see the amazing amount of pus and muck that was around the root. This dog went on to erupt a deformed and discoloured canine tooth. This will not occur in all cases, not even close. But if you can predict which one of those teeth will and won't be affected, you are doing well. With the amount of importance that is being placed on the cosmetics of the dog, I don't understand why it would be risked. I can only say you have been to vets that are not widely read or knowledgable in regards to dental matters. ___________ You're right oakway, it is hard to get the message across on the internet. I just re-read this post and it comes off pretty arrogant and cocky. It's late, it's all true, and I am not making this personal. Just need to correct wrong information when it is given. Oh and Jumabaar - spot on. LOL, LOL, Well thats what the professor at the Uni said go argure with him!!!!!!! I show dogs and breed them and have done for many years and see iof you can win with a dog with an incorrect mouth. In some standards it can mean disqualification.!!!!!!!!!.

It is name we like and would like all our puppies to be known as. It is like a surname but it goes in front of the dogs name/s If the name you are granted is Oakway all your puppies will have this in front of the name you apply for. Oakway Dress Fth Boys Oakway Swing Time Oakway Centre Court The dog must always be entered in shows with this official name and registration number along with it's sire and dam. You can call the dog any name you like at home but any official reference must always be the dog registered name on it's registration papers. :)

This not an ANKC recognised breed. They can not be shown any ANKC show. Such a shame people are being told that they are a registered breed.

I know, I know. I'll say it again I WON'T enter unless I know who is judging.

I have had my 5 children at shows and never had a problem. Like other children in those days they did as they were told and never caused a problem. I can/could take my grand/great grand children now and still never have a problem.

Before you do anything I would be looking at what the Insurance companies have to say first.

If you did not receive anything in the envelope you will have to collect your number and catalogue on the day from the secretary. Ask at the show where you collect your number. If it is at Durack there is a permanent office in the main building, at other shows just look for the secretary's tent or as I said ask where. Some shows do not require you to send an envelope. Have a great day.

Also remember this rule does not apply to all states at the moment.

ALLEGED genetic fault at this stage... hopefully a decent orthopaedic specialist who knows cavs has been chosen, and they will be able provide more information. Absolutely. Until this condition is proven to be genetic. Many dogs suffer from L P but it is in some cases it is man made by incorrect diet, and whole heap of enviromental conditions.

First thing in my opinion is to get rid of the vegies, rice garlic and calcium. Give meat and naturel bone in the form of chicken necks and/or wings also chicken frames, these may be portioned to the dog requirements. Firstly the vegies are usless unless they are liquefied in a blender or put through an electric juicer.Vegies are full of cellulose and dogs can't digest it unless prepared in the above way. Rice is just a filler. Garlic is from the onion family and has been known to kill. Yes of course you may use a little but don't be heavy handed. When dogs grow, yes they need calcium but not the powder. What we have found out is....grow them slowly, We use foods that are naturel or specially prepared for the growing stages available at produce or pet shops. Many of are using a naturel diet of raw meaty bones (size and amount suitable to the size of the dog) and small amount of the appropriate dry food if you wish. We are all here to help you, not hinder you in any way, and if any of us can be of assistance to you we will be. Sometimes we get mad with vets who offer a to quick diagnosis but we wouldn't be with out them for quids. Sometimes we have some over zealous ones, so just go slowly

It doesn't matter how much you love this bitch and how good her temperament may be, she may not have the conformation to be a brood bitch. Why would you de sex on vets say so when the vet may not be fully qualified to diagnose this condition. Maybe if you told us how this bitch has been fed we may be able to help you more as diet plays a big part in the bone development. :)