labsrule

For the record you obviously know nothing about canine chemotherapy treatment. Dogs don't get 'sick' like people do because they are not given the doses that humans are given as there is no option for a bone marrow transplant. Canine chemo is given in low doses to kill off the cancer cells but as we all know, chemo attacks good cells like bone marrow as well, hence the reason for the low doses, so it does not kill off the good cells like it does with humans. Blood tests are taken weekly to ensure that the white cell count is high enough to have the next dose - just because they are dogs, does not mean they are not afforded the best treatment you can give them. Ollie had chemo for six months and it was the chemo and holistic treatment that has kept him alive long past what was originally suggested. I researched canine chemotherapy before I made the decision to go ahead (however it was our only option because he had multiple tumour sites and it was already in his lymph system)... he lost a bit of hair off the tip of his tail and where they used to shave him for the canula took months to grow back. Yes you are entitled to your opinion but maybe it is best to research topics Agree Staffyluv and unfortunately, research on canine chemo normally begins when you are confronted with the devastating news that your beloved dog has cancer . Unless you have been in that position, you have no idea on what choice you will make and up to this point, you would not know much at all about canine chemo and some owners would not even know it even existed as an option. Hope Ollie is doing OK Hi dianed Fitzy's undercoat is regrowing well and hopefully it will soon be followed by his top coat, so that he is fully covered, insulated and protected from the cold as we move into the cold winter months. When he was recovering from the surgery and wasn't allowed to climb up on beds/furniture etc, and had to sleep on his own bed which I moved into my bedroom at night, he had a nice big warm luxurious blanket on his bed which kept him nice and warm and I also put my heating on for him for the first few nights and would also put a lighter blanket on top of him, which he normally kicked off a few mins later. Now that he has had his stitches out, he is allowed back on my (our ) bed where he belongs and on these colder nights we have been having, often gets in my bed under the blankets and loves to sleep down the bottom of the bed snuggled up to my feet . When he gets too hot, he crawls out and sleeps on the top snuggled up to me. He has done this since he was a youngster Fitzy's diet has always consisted of a variety of RMB and kibble and over the last 3 years, I have been improving all my boys raw and kibble diet by adding more variety including roo, as our local petfood shop gets in fresh roo very regularly, so we have a constant supply and the kibble was changed to a super premium brand. Approx 12mths ago, I started decreasing the kibble and increasing the RMB with the aim of converting them over to 100% RMB. In the end I settled for a 75% RMB and 25% super premium kibble, with some days only RMB and other days RMB & kibble. Since Fitzy's cancer diagnosis, I have been doing lots of research on nutrition for dogs with cancer because of their special requirements and also getting advice from his Oncologist for his nutrtional requirements, both whilst he is on chemo and after chemo as whilst he is on chemo, she advised that some antioxidants can interfere with the chemotherapy drugs. In addition, I am waiting on delivery of a book I have also purchased and am evaluating some other books listed on the canine cancer group I have just joined and others I have found through my research. The biggest change I have had to make to his diet since his diagnosis is to convert to high protein, low carb and whilst his existing raw diet was high in protein anyway, I changed his kibble to the Artemis No Grain Maximal, increased his Omega 3 and fat content. l continue to tweak his diet as required with additional supplements, as his diet requirements form a crucial part of his treatment. Wow to you for being able to butcher your own roo being a city slicker, I can buy mine from a shop . I take strength from dogs like Sophie and others I heard about, who despite having Hemangiosarcoma, have defied the incredible odds stacked against them with fantastic survival rates and I am hoping and praying, my boy will be one of these too Obviously whatever you are doing for Sophie is working and hope she continues to do well. Tks so much goldens - yes I believe German Shepherds and Golden Retrievers are the two breed most afflicited by this awful cancer and unfortunately, Labs and some other large breeds are also over represented Tks 4Kelpies I leave B-Naturals website open all the time as am constantly referring to it and printing out various articles and diet info and tks for the link and also the info about being able to email Lew Olsen. Yes the stress can be exhausting and I was struggling to stay on top of it for the first couple of weeks when I was having to deal with the possible diagnosis after his blood test results, then his ultrasound & xrays, then his surgery, then the ultimate worst case scenario diagnosis and all the decisions that had to be made. Now that he has recovered from his surgery very well and has had his first chemo and his immediate nutritional requirements have been sorted, I am relaxing more. as I need to stay strong, not only for him, but also for my other boys, who have been just wonderful throughout this ordeal and a great source of comfort to me, particularly when Fitzy was in hospital for 4 days . It has been extremely important for all of us to get back to as much a normal routine as we can and that is happening Thanks for your thoughts and healing candle for Fitzy.

Hi 4Kelpies Many thanks for your post and the links it contained Great news about your dog still going strong 3½ years later and very sorry about your loss of one through bladder cancer The last couple of weeks have been such an emotional rollercoaster and a devastating nightmare, My beautiful boy is one of those, once in lifetime dogs, who is extremely special to me and his diagnosis has rocked me to my core :cry: I have now joined the Canine Cancer yahoo group and have received the approval to join and it will be invaluable to communicate with other dog owners in the same position and understand what you are going through and can offer support, advice and share experiences and I can do likewise In addiiton to info and advice I received from Fitzy's Oncologist for his Nutrition requirements, I have been doing copious amounts of research on Nutrition for dogs with cancer and found some excellent material, including some books, one of which I have ordered and others I am evaluating. Tks for your link, as well Whilst pior to his cancer diagnosis, he was already on a very good diet of approx 75% RMB and 25% kibble (various super premium brands including Artemis Fresh Mix for Lge Senior Breeds) plus raw fish and tinned sardines weekly, yoghurt, veges, egg weekly etc, I have had to make some changes to his diet to ensure at all times he is on a high protein, low carb diet and I have also had to make further changes whilst he is on Chemo. I have also changed his kibble over to Artemis Fresh Mix Maximal Grain Free and am in the process of slowly swapping him over to it. In consultation with his Oncologist, I will continue to tweak his nutrition and try some of the cancer diets in the info I have been provided with/found during research and in the books I purchase. He had his first chemo treatment on Friday and so far so good :D as he is now in day 4 without any side affects and nearing the end of the period (2-5 days) when any side affects become evident and I have been extra vigilant during this period. Since his chemo, there has been no change in him at all and he has been his normal very happy and bouncy self He had his stitches removed last Tuesday and we are able to resume his daily walks the next day, as the surgeon is very happy with his excellent recovery from the splenectomy .

Oh Beauie, I feel your pain and loss, it is so devasting to lose your much beloved boy, to this terrible cancer You had the call I was so dreading and had to make the awful decision that goes along with it and you definitely made the right choice, as would I have done, if I was in your position. To allow them to go thru a fairly major surgery like a Splenectomy and find that the cancer had metastasised through other organs and allow them to wakeup and live for a couple of weeks, is "cruel" and unforgivable IMHO . This was one of the reasons why I wanted to bring my boy home for the night, and reschedule his surgery to the next day after he had the ultrasound which found the tumour and the chest xrays which found that it had not yet spread to the lungs, as it allowed the both of us to have some special time together, just in case I would have been confronted with the same decision you had to make to not let him wake up from the surgery if there was evidence during the surgery, that the cancer had spread to his other organs. I was fortunate that Fitzy's tumour had not yet ruptured, had it done so, then the surgery would have been immediate and I would not have had the luxury of our special night together. I hoped and prayed I would not be put in the position you were, and thank God I wasn't, so my heart goes out to you and it must have been horrendous and devastating for you to lose your beautiful boy this way

Hi dianed Thanks so much for clarifying about the biopsy and definitive diagnosis of Hemangiosarcoma. Sophie obviously defied the odds and that is fantastic news and it is so great to hear such positive outcomes amongst all the negative doom and gloom associated with this awful cancer It is interesting what you say about Sophie's operations, as Fitzy's tumour was detected through an ultrasound after blood tests results indicated he had anaemia, after my Vet's physical examination suspected he had an enlarged liver or spleen. Both the specialist vet and specialist surgeon told me that the spleen and tumour must be removed, as there was a great risk that it could rupture and could bleed out and essentially kill him and ,I was also warned that during the Splenectomy surgery, there was also a risk of a bleedout . During the consults prior to surgery they also discussed with me why a biopsy alone, could not be done in this situation and that Slenectomy was the only course of action. They wanted to operate the same day, he had the Ultrasound which detected the tumour, followed by xrays to check the lungs and it was so devastating and stressful to receive this news :cry: , as I had to leave him at the specialist clinic for them to do all the tests and there was no way I could cope with him having fairly major and risky surgery,without me seeing him beforehand and spending some time with him, in case the worst case scenario was realised . I told them I wanted to pick him up and bring home for the night, so they rescheduled the surgery for the next day and I took him back the next morning. Best thing I ever did, as gave us both a chance to be together and we had such a wonderful night, curled up together on my bed, which is where he normally sleeps and I woke up feeling very relaxed and positive the next morning and just knew he would be ok during the surgery. Sophie must be one tough girl with a real fighting spirit to not only come through two ops in the one week , but to also go against the survival rate without chemo in spectacular fashion, as she has survived 3 years instead of the 2-3months average survival rate without chemo . That truly is amazing and I am so happy for both Sophie and yourself that she has defied the odds so spectacularly and I hope my beautiful boy can do the same . My boy is also a pretty tough guy with an amazing spirit , which will no doubt help him through what he has to face and hopefully help him defy the odds and if he is able to get any extra time over and above the average survival time, it will be so cherished.

Hi Fastgals Tks for your reply and support, as so nice to hear from someone that does have some experience with the insidious Hemangiosarcoma and does understand its impact and the necessity of Chemo for dogs like Fitzy. I am so sorry that your Girlie had a double whammy with both Hemangiosarcoma and Osteosarcoma and lost her battle I fully understand why you did not opt for the Surgery and chemo and if I was in your position, I would have done exactly the same.

This is what happened with my dog - started bleeding, the vet had no diagnosis, dead in 3 days, hemangiosarcoma only identified on autopsy ( I know it's not called an autopsy on dogs, but you know what I mean). He had no sysmptoms before the bleed, and because he had had IMHA a few years earlier I was always alert for signs of lethargy. Diva, this ordeal must have been extremely distressing for you and I know only too well how devastated you must have been :rolleyes: To just collapse without any warning and die without any diagnosis, is truly a nightmare and I was just so thankful that Fitzy didn't reach that stage. So pleased that you did find out what caused it though, as not knowing would not have given you any real closure. RIP Diva's doggie

Tks so much Diva for your best wishes and I am so sorry to hear of the loss of your 10 yearold dog through this awful cancer You're entitled to your opinion on chemo, even though I only asked for people to share their Chemo experiences for dogs with Hemangiosarcoma You cannot compare human chemo with animal chemo, which most of us tend to do if we have been fortunate enough to not have a dog in a life threatening situation, as up until this point, human chemo is all we really hear about and know about and maybe have had relatives or friends or colleagues undergo chemo and suffer numerous side affects. It is all very well saying you would never let it happen (chemo that is) to a dog even if you were a billionaire, and I hope to hell you are never put in a position to ever have to make that decision. I have weighed up the pros and cons of chemo very carefully and believe me the pros outweigh the cons, despite your experiences and I have put my trust in Fitzy's Oncologist and her team and the other specialists that were involved with Fitzy's diagnosis and surgery. As I have said in my posts above, Chemo will not cure his cancer as it is incurable :rolleyes: it will only slow down the spread of the cancer and minmise the discomfort the cancer causes. This is an aggressive cancer, time is not on his side and I refuse to sit by and do nothing to help buy him more time whilst he is so full of life and doing so well, despite what he has been through, providing he can have a good quality of life for his remaining time. If he does suffer adverse side affects during the chemo that impacts on his quality of life, then there is no question that I will discontinue the chemo and this option was explained to me upfront, as they are very much aware of the value I place on quality of life vs quantity. I will never let my beloved boy suffer just so I can have him around longer to satisfy my own selfish needs, as his needs must and do come before mine. If there was any indication that the cancer had spread to any of his major organs prior to the surgery, then I would not have put him thru the surgery only to die a month or two later, so I would have had him pts as the risk of the tumour rupturing without surgery was too great and I would not have sat around waiting for it to rupture and for him to die from internal bleeding . If there was any indication during the surgery that the cancer had already spread to other organs, then I would have had him pts during the surgery. All these options were discussed at length with me by the specialists involved during our consult first for the ultrasound and then the xrays, then the surgery, so that I was prepared to make the necessary decisions, based on what they found. It was an extremely distressing and very confronting experience and I hope to hell, I never ever have to experience it again.

dianed when you say "your Vet was confident that it had not spread to other organs", does that mean that the tumour was not sent for testing to determine via Histopathology whether it was a benign or malignant tumour? Histopathology (microscopic examination of specially prepared and stained tissues sections by a Veterinary Pathologist at a specialised laboratory) is the only conclusive way to determine whether the tumour is benign or malignant. If benign, then it is a Hemangioma and no further treatment is required after the Splenectomy and the dog will live a normal life. If malignant, then it is Hemangiosarcoma and a totally different ball game, as even if the cancer has not yet spread to other organs, the cancer is in the body, as due to the nature of the cancer, it is a cancer of the blood vessel cells and will ultimately spread to the organs and throughout the body and that is why the prognosis for Hemangiosarcoma is so grim. This will happen with or without chemo, as the chemo will only slow down the spread and minimise the discomfort the cancer causes . Prior to his surgery, Fitzy had an ultrasound, which detected the mass on his spleen , then he had chest xrays to see if the cancer had spread to his lungs, which it hadn't and then during the surgery the specialist surgeon who operated on Fitzy, was able to check liver and other closeby organs and was confident that it had not spread to his liver or other closeby organs :rolleyes: and then during his checkup after surgery, he had another ultrasound (Echocardiography) to check if it had spread to his heart and it hadn't Even though it was determined by xrays, ultrasounds and surgeon that it had not spread to all these organs, it was determined through Histopathology, that the tumour was malignant, hence him having Hemangiosarcoma. Hemangiosarcoma is one of the worst cancers a dog can get, as it is so aggressive and highly malignant, hence the grim prognosis by all the specialists and research . There are dogs with this cancer that defy the survival odds with or without chemo, but the chances of that are very slim That is why I question if your dog and the other two dogs' tumours were tested via Histopathology, because this test is the only way to conclusively and definitively identify, whether the tumour is benign (Hemangioma) or malignant (Hemangiosarcoma). It would be very helpful to know that. In answer to your question, how did I pick it up on Fitzy. I noticed over a period of a couple of weeks that he was slowing down on our daily walks and wasn't his normal energetic self and he seemed depressed at times. Being a Lab, he is ball obsessed , and I would take his favourite ball with us to the park and throw it for him to retrieve and one day, he just wasn't interested in retrieving the ball and I thought, now that isn't like my Fitzy, something is not right as he normally goes 100 miles per hour after his ball . Complicating all this was that he had surgery on 25/2 to remove a couple of lumps up under his elbow which were detected during a physical conducted by Sydney Uni Veterinary Dept a few days earlier, when he participated in a Canine Aging Study and normally I don't worry too much about lumps as they age, but prior to this study, he had had the odd limp on this same leg and I took him to the Vet to get it checked out and they couldn't find anything wrong with it . Despite this, I followed Sydney Uni's recommendation to get lumps checked by my Vet. In addition to the physical Sydney Uni did, they also did a CBC (Complete Blood Count) and Urine Analysis. The lumps were removed, sent away for testing and results were benign and the blood count and urine analysis were also within the normal range. After his leg surgery, he got a fluid buildup that had to drained daily for a few days and between the surgery and recovery period, he was not allowed to be walked for a couple of weeks and when he was finally allowed to return to walking, I had to ease him back slowly into his walking schedule, so when I first noticed his slow down during our daily walks, I thought it may be related to an issue with post op recovery, so made allowances for that. During this period I did not take his ball with us to the park, as he was not allowed to jump and run too hard. When I believed that sufficient time had elapsed for his post op recovery, I started taking the ball on our daily walks and at first he would chase it, but not so energetically as he had done in the past and one day, he just never chased it at all and that is when I knew something must be wrong and took him to my vet. After lots of prodding and poking the Vet suspected an enlarged liver or spleen and they took blood as well and blood test results came back next day indicating he had anaemia. During all of this, he was eating and drinking as normal and his gums were ok. The specialists told me that unfortunately the signs aren't always visible as the damage is being done internally and by the time the tumour is diagnosed, the damage is done and approximately two thirds of these tumours are malignant (Hemangiosarcoma). They also said quite often a dog with this undiagnosed condition will just collapse with internal bleeding, because the tumour ruptures and the dog may die there and then, or not long after or may bleedout in surgery Even though Fitzy's tumour had not ruptured, thankfully, a Splenectomy carries the risk of bleedouts during surgery, as I am sure you are aware of, with your dog having gone through the same type of surgery.

puggy_puggy - tks for you reply with positive feedback on dogs coping with chemo . The pug you cared for in the last stage of cancer sounds like he was a real little champion :rolleyes: and obviously his happy disposition carried him through what the poor boy had to face and yes we owe it to them to be aware, when enough is enough and it is their time Yes carbs are definitely a no no and he has to have 3 x 1000g Fish Oil Capsules a day.

dianed - tks for sharing your story and that is fantastic news that Sophie and the other two dogs survived and are doing very well despite not undergoing chemo. Do you know what Stage (Stage I, II or III) Sophie's tumour was? From what the Oncologist told me, Stage I is for any tumour under 5cm and Stage II is for a tumour over 5cm, and Fitzy is Stage II. Stage I has a better survival rate than Stage II, even without the chemo, so would be interesting to know Sophie's stage when the tumour was removed. I have received the same grim prognosis from the Specialist Vet, the Specialist Surgeon and the Oncologist and all the research I have done on Hemangiosarcoma, all support their prognosis . The Specialist Surgeon who operated on Fitzy, also had a dog with Hemangioscarcoma that was treated with chemo and did not survive past the average chemo treated survival rate. Did your vet recommend chemo as a treatment option for Sophie once she had been diagnosed with Hemangiosarcoma? Were any other types of treatment and or advice recommended/offered for Sophie?

Hi All Thanks so much for your replies, kind words, best wishes, get well vibes and your own stories :D . Further to my consult with the Oncologist on Tues, I had a telecon with her earlier this afternoon to discuss the chemo option further and I have now opted for the chemo treatment for Fitzy, as without the Chemo, the prognosis is so grim (2-3 months) :cool: as this is such an aggressive cancer :D . Also my boy is doing so great and has recovered remarkably well after going thru so much with his surgery and he is so full of life, that I can't deny him some extra good quality time and need to do everything in my power to to extend his life for as long as possible, if he is able to have a good quality of life, for as long as possible. I don't want to ever go thru life thinking what if , if I decided to not pursue the Chemo option. He is booked in tomorow morning for his first chemo treatment, as time is of the essence and he will have 5 x fortnightly chemo treatments over a 10 week period. The chemo will slow down the progression of the cancer and minimise the discomfort the cancer causes, but the cancer will ultimately claim his life at some point If he happens to fall into that very small percentage of pets that end up with side affects through the Chemo, then I have the option to discontinue the Chemo, as I will not sacrifice his quality of life for quantity. Staffyluv - sorry to hear about Ollie's MCT, but great news that he is in remission and obviously the conventional and holistic treatments that he is on are working very well Tks also for the diet info and I have already had discussions on Fitzy's nutrition with the Oncologist, as it plays a big part in the chemo treatment. His current diet is 75% RMB & fish and 25% super premium kibble (Artemis) and I have also added Fish Oil capsules. Was advised by Oncologist that his diet has to be high in protein and I have to increase the fish oil capsules to 3 a day and we are going to discuss his nutrition further during my visit tomorrow. All the best for Ollie's continued remission Miranda - sorry to hear about Razzle's outcome with his treatment and his ultimate passing :p I believe there have been many advances in the chemo treatment in the ensuing years with better outcomes and less side affects. I seriously doubt I would have considered chemo, if my boy had not recovered so well from the surgery and wasn't doing the best and if there was any evidence it had already spread to his major organs. My decision to opt for the Chemo was made easier by the fact that my boy is doing so well after coming thru fairly major surgery and his remarkable recovery has even surprised the specialists and there is no evidence so far of the cancer having spread to any of his other organs and he is so full of life and virtually back to his normal, wonderful, happy and exhuberant self Because of the type of cancer he does have, I am not expecting miracles, but do hope and pray that he defies the odds and exceeds the average survival time alanglen - tk for you reply. I didn't want to compare the cancer treatments with any other form of cancer, other than the Hemangioscarcoma of the spleen that my boy has and that is why I did include in my topic heading "Hemangiosarcoma Of The Spleen - Has Anyone Had A Dog With This Cancer, & treated with Chemo to share their chemo experiences". I had already had a consult with the Oncologist prior to posting this topic and I had a telecon with her today as well, but I just wanted to hear from any other dolers that had been thru chemo treatment for the same cancer as my boy, as there is nothing like hearing about it first hand from other dog owners in the same situation. Thank you for you compliment on my boy's lovely kind face as it is a true reflection of what is in his heart and the type of beautiful dog that he is and why he is so special to me. I had so hoped he would live a long and wonderful life and grow old with me, but he has been dealt a very cruel blow and will be taken ahead of his time :D by such an awful cancer and it is such a devasting blow for the both of us :D :D

My youngest Black lab boy Fitzy, who will be 10 in July has recently been diagnosed with Hemangiosarcoma of the Spleen after an operation to remove his spleen & the tumour (Splenectomy). I am completely devastated to receive the news that the tumour is malignant as this cancer, Hemangiosarcoma, is a very aggressive and highly malignant cancer of blood vessel cells and the prognosis is poor There is no cure and only treatment after the surgery he has had, is chemo, which will only slow down the spread of the cancer and delay the inevitable. Between ultra sounds sounds and xrays, it was confirmed that the cancer has not yet spread to his heart and lungs and during the surgery the specialist surgeon was pretty confident it had not spread to his liver as yet either, and the tumour did not rupture before his surgery, so this all bodes well for lengthening his time and I am so grateful for that He has also recovered remarkably well from his surgery and is doing great After his checkup and stitches removed by the specialist surgeon on Tuesday and discussions with the specialist vet who we had the original consult with and who did the ultra sounds/xrays, he organised a consult with their Oncologist. I am now dwelling on the Chemotherapy option as my major concern of quality of life vs quantity of life has been alleviated after discussions with the Oncologist, as the doses of Chemo given to pets is lower than that given to humans, therefore the side affects are fewer and less severe and a very high percentage around 90%, do not suffer side affects. The lower dosages compared to humans is to ensure the pet does have a quality of life, which is my absolute priority for Fitzy. I will be having another discussion with the Oncologist today by phone to discuss the chemo option further and was wondering if there are any other dolers who have had dogs with this awful Hemangiosarcoma of the spleen, who did opt for the Chemo treatment after the surgery and can share their experiences with me. I know that if I decide to go down the Chemo route and if he happens to be one of the few that suffers any nasty side affects, that I can stop the Chemo. Even with the Chemo treatment, his life span is pretty limited based on the averages, as the chemo will only delay the inevitable At close to 10 years of age, this very special boy is still a very lively, exhuberant and very happy boy and it is very hard to reconcile this with the aggressive cancer he has in his body and I owe it to him to ensure he can continue to live his life, the way he has for the past 9½ years since I have had him.

What a terrible and freak accident that befell your gorgeous Ruby , my heart goes out to you on your loss of your beloved girl :p RIP Ruby and do as many zoomies as you like at

Terrible tragedy so sorry for your loss of your beloved boy :p RIP Craig and run free at

Thinking of you today :p I am sure the beautiful Haley is strutting her stuff at the and all those male labs up there will drooling over her She will be surrounded today on this special day by all our beautiful Labbies that have left us, to comfort her and help her through this very sad day, when she had to leave you 4 years ago :rofl: :rofl:

Worked extremely well for me About 3 years ago, when my youngest black lab boy who I had since a pup, was about just shy of his 7th birthday, I adopted a 10 year old black lab boy thru a private rehoming. Wasn't actually planning on adding a 2nd dog, just read of his plight on Dol and next thing he is coming home with me About two years later, again thanks to Dol, I heard about a 10 year old black boy in one of the pounds and had to go and check him out as cold weather was approaching, he was very overweight and suffering arthritis and I couldn't bear the thought of how he would handle the winter in the pound ;) . I kept a close eye on him over a week or two to see if he was adopted, but that didn't happen, so I couldn't just leave him there as he was such a lovely boy, so despite the fact, I really wasn't looking for another dog :D I took my two boys to meet him which went very well and a couple of days later, I brought him home. Some things are meant to be and all my boys get on extremely well and my two beautiful adoptees settled in so quickly, it was like they had always been part of my family . I really believe that we have such a harmonious Labrador household due to my youngest boy, who is a very special boy who has been so accepting of these "interlopers" and they are all so good with one anothe, even when any of them get in each others faces in typical Labrador fashion . I do believe that you need to carefully consider how your current dogs would accept another into their household, as you want the addition of a 3rd dog to be as stress free as possible for both dogs and humans in your household .

Great news Perfect timing and fantastic that the Breeder is personally visiting their pup in it's new home as part of their ongoing support I'm sure your BIL won't act the "know it all" around the Breeder :p

And yet another of my beloved breed ends up in the hands of a jerk poor pup As this "know it all" will not listen to you, maybe you could find out discreetly who the breeder of the pup is and contact them and ask them to get in contact with BIL to do a "follow-up" on how the pup is going, and if there are any issues they could help with and to run through a list of "how to's" with your BIL and to do it in such a way that your BIL won't know the Breeder has been contacted. :p

Wise move as you cannot obtain a letter from Strata Management and you want to raise a Lab pup Good luck with your Bank Manager and of course you will need to introduce your new Lab pup in the Lab Thread when you get one

Understand that formulas change over time, but where's the logic of changing it when they are trying to re-enter the market and recapture that established customer base they had before the import ban/withdrawal. Pretty dumb move on their part , as most of us who were part of that established customer base will probably not purchase the "new formula" product. I believe NZ still import from US.

Do you know what the difference is? Is it something that is not available in Australia?. Seems strange to me that they would manufacture under the name Nutro with different ingredients If it was exactly the same as that previously imported, I would change back like a shot, but am concerned at what the difference may be Nutro is a brand name they can make any variety of products under that name, how is that confusing. OK let me clarify better what I meant. I don't understand why Nutro would allow and why Masterfoods would deviate from the original ingredients used in the previously imported range which already had a pretty well established customer base and therefore risk alienating this established customer base, particularly if the deviation is adverse.

Sorry for the loss of your beloved Roxy she lived a great long life and and you will have some wonderful memories to cherish and to help you through your pain RIP Roxy and run free

Do you know what the difference is? Is it something that is not available in Australia?. Seems strange to me that they would manufacture under the name Nutro with different ingredients If it was exactly the same as that previously imported, I would change back like a shot, but am concerned at what the difference may be

I have lived in a villa in a strata managed complex with older Labs with a very positive outcome. I own the villa as an investment property and always had tenants, however, I moved over to NZ for 18mths, then moved back again with my Lab boy who was 6 at the time and I moved into my villa as my long term tenant had given notice, coincidentally at the same time I was moving back. Anyway, it was meant to be a temporary stay of a few months until I sorted out another house to buy. There are six villas in the complex and prior to me moving there, 5 of them were owner occupied and I explained my situation to each of the owners and they had no problems with me having my Lab there and asked me to consider staying there permanently, as they liked the fact that all villas were now owner occupied. I had a daily stream of the neighbours kids coming to visit and play with my boy as the kids were rapt that they had a friendly dog in the complex who was great with them and I would supervise the daily play sessions for these kids and their ever growing circle of friends Six months later I was still there and ended up adopting another black lab boy who was 10 years old and he was also welcomed by the neighbours who were doing everything they could to keep me from moving A few months later, I found my new house and after being in the villa for just over 12 months, we moved into it and the neighbours and kids in particular were very upset that we were moving and would no longer have the dogs to visit and play with. My villa has a paved courtyard that was covered and a garden off this which was the length of the courtyard and there was also a side walkway so they had areas they could go to the toilet in and walk around or lie outside. I took them for daily walks everyday to various parks both local and outside of the area for anywhere between 1-2 hrs, so they got their exercise as well as a chance to run, play and lie down on grass. I was also fortunate to be able to work from home, so they spent a fair bit of time inside with me, lying in my office as I worked. As far as barking went, my youngest boy would bark if anyone came knocking on my door or hung around outside my villa as he is a very good guard dog and very territorial, but none of my dogs have ever been nuisance barkers. When I go to the Strata meetings as I still own the villa, even 3 years down the track, I still get asked when I am moving back, as the kids still talk about my dogs and ask when the lady with the dogs is coming back Whilst my experience was a very positive one, I am not sure I would recommend a villa environment for a Lab puppy as I believe they need a yard to run around in, explore and have room to play. Older labs however, are quite happy to just chill out with their owner when they are home, or sleep and laze around if they are outside until their owner comes home and to have their daily walk to the park. I certainly would not recommend that you take the risk and get a Lab without getting the necessary permission first. It would be catastrophic for both the dog and yourselves if you go ahead without obtaining permission first and are then forced to rehome the poor dog if objections are raised by Stata Management.

So sorry for the loss of your beloved Mahli , must have been devastating for you to find her RIP Mahli and run free