country joe

Lablover He started on the way back. Simplified everything. When I took him back to a trial I had him recall through part of the exercise area. then retrieve from the exercise area. I have never had a dog that had a deep seated problem with this. If I did I would use the same process and keep the maintenance up. I would possibly try using a checkcord. Depending on the dog. Country joe.

I have had a dog that started to show the marking trait when working. I did the following steps. Took the dog out of run and onto lead. quick bit of healing then released and told toilet. After a couple of minutes back on lead and more heal work. Then moved up to healing past distraction "where he had marked when released". Then recalled passed distraction point. Next retrieve past distraction point. Moved to area when other dogs had been to toilet. Same process. Out of car on lead quick heal work, toilet and then more heal work. Heal work past distraction, (a bush or tree that had been used by other dogs.) Progressed to recall past and then retrieve past. I think it took me about 3 weeks to get to this point and I had a weekly session at it for another month or two. The dog had only started to show this trait and it was stopped quickly. If the dog had had this trait for any amount of time I think this it would become a maintenance issue. (Something you continue to work at the keep the desired response) Country joe

Sorry to read about Pepper Julie. Keeping my fingers crossed for her. Regards Wayne.

Hi, Country Joe, darling, um..........what is your interpretation of pack drive??? and how is this achieved, bonding when young, brushing, clear fair obedience? Peppa LOL??? My simple interpretation (I have never completed a dog training course) of pack drive is a pup that wants to be with you. There is prey drive but it is tempered with biddability. There is a natural inclination of the dog to check back, to show awareness of you. Steve Hall and I have discussed this in the past. Charlie Ball was of the same opinion. He told me 25 years ago get a friendly pup the breeding will take care of itself. It only took me 20 years to listen Yes, Pepper has it. (and she is certainly no slouch in the field working) The breeding is there. For how it is achieved, as I said I now look for the friendliest pup in the litter. then we should try to apply all the things you mention. You have a great dog in Pepper. I saw that on the weekend. It is the first time I have really stood there and watched what that girl is really about. I think she may be getting a bit overwhelmed in the pack. I know you like the high drive and there is no doubt you have it in the boys. My personal view is. If Pepper was taken to some trials on her own, you would in very short order have a retrieving trial champion. Wayne P.

I am with Erny and Tangwyn on this one. On balance I want the pack driven pup. If you have the right genetics they will come through with all the drive you want. Once you get past a certain drive the rest is wasted. In retrieving trials they give ten points for style eagerness and action after that its just wasted as its not a speed competition and more oppotunity fo rthings to go wrong. Speed is very different to drive. Persistance is different to drive. Slow to learn is different to drive. You need a balance between prey drive and pack drive. I have tried all the puppy testing, had the crazed retriever, (Zephie)now I look for the pup that gets under my feet. If the genetic base is there you will have a hard going pup anyway. country joe.

I went through the keep the pup seperate stage. Now it is a modified version. Pup gets some time with the rest of the mob. Pup gets some time alone. Pup gets some one on one time with me. The pup is not in with the other dogs when I am not around. The pup will be penned next ot the other dogs. The pup gets one on one time with me when first let out of the pen. I have not had any bonding issues. If I did I would modify my methods and increase seperation from the other dogs unitl I was happy with the pups response to me. But I wouldn't start from that position. I would however recommend that people who are just getting their second dog start with keeping the dogs seperate. Country Joe

My old dog Cindy in a retrieving trial. 12 dogs had been up to the pegs before her without any trouble. The run was a double mark. She got the first bird without a problem. I asked her were the second bird was and she indicated she knew where it was. I said fetch and she took of hard left and dove into the bush we passed on the way to the line. Pulled a sausage out of the bush that someone had disgarded at lunchtime, she ate the sausage and then ran out and got the bird as if nothing had happened. :D I think we got third in the end with the judge mentioning that we didn't get higher because our entry included a free lunch. She was a black lab. In another trial She had gone out of sight after a bird. After a couple of minutes scanning the area I saw her in the bushes looking at me for direction and I blew the whistle and gave her a right over. She didn't move, I blew the whistle harder and gave her a bigger over. She didn't move. After four of these I said to the judge I will pull her out as she wasn't listening. He said ok and told me my dog was now 200 yards away and still taking commands as I had been trying to handle a black tree stump. He still laughs about it when we meet. Country Joe.

You can lead a dog or is that a horse to water but you can't well you just can't. We had a good time in S.A. Great people and great trials. Just got to train now and fix the things that didn't work. Ran Leanne's Razz for her and he finished AA on the Saturday (did a good job). On Sunday he decided I wasn't his owner, enough said. Jock got wound up like a spring. Restricted Stake on Saturday he held it together. Sunday I siad fetch and I think he is still running. Whisky well he just was Whisky enough said. Contry Joe.

Well done. Country Joe.

I hope everyone had a great time at the SAR training day. Do we get a rundown on what you all got up too? Country Joe.

A big WELL DONE. Sounds like you had a great time. Give them all a pat from me. Country Joe

They were not on paper although they both came from UK backgrounds. If I get a bitch and use Woody's semen I may get some more non-lickers. To my mind it looks like a genetic, stability or temperament issue. I agree with your line of thought. Does that make me intelligent? From what I can remember When she was young I would get her really tired until she wanted to fall asleep. Then I would get her to lay down beside me. If she licked I would sit her back up. Eventualy wanting to fall asleep would win out. I taught her the leave it command. This was used to good effect when she wanted to start licking. Never cured, but managed. Country joe

We have had a few Flatcoats. I was a licker. The other wasn't We bred and ran on a pup until he was 18 months. He wasn't a licker either. The one that licked was managed. She only licked people not other dogs. country joe

My dogs love me. That's it. end of subject. I can prove it. Every morning after their walk they stare at me with love through the back door. I then feel guilty, no make that love and then go and make them toast because they love me. They love the toast and they love me for making the toast. The whole exercise is full of love. I think my dogs may be using mind control on me. In a loving way. Country Joe.

To tell the truth I tried to win the trial in the first run with Jock. As the judge said at presentations. It didn't come off, but it was worth trying. There was a fair bit of rust on the whistle as I hadn't run a dog for a couple of years in a trial. There were some dog mistakes and some handling errors that we now have to work on. I thought I had better run in one or could start being accused of being an internet dog trainer. To keep things in perspective, it was only a restricted. I was very impressed with Sonic. Ran two dogs in all age on the Saturday and finished the trial with both. country joe

This might be a bit simplistic but. I have used simple healing exercises lots of left and right about turns. figure eights Lots of quick stops and heel fast. I have done all this at a faster pace than normal. This has forced the dog to have greater focus on me than what is going on around. I made sure this was fun for the dog and myself. Its the opposite of what I have seen some people do when they get into distraction trouble. They have tended to slow everything down. The dogs reaction controling the situation. Country Joe.

Not my thread, just a thread. Anyway if you were really sorry you would offer to cook me one of your world famous curries Country Joe

I have had mouthing issues with one dog and I went through teaching the hold I taught the hold inside similar other have stated. Mainly hold and praise. I taught the dog not to move to reposition the bird/dummy once it took it. Then I taught the dog to sit hold and come. 2 paces across room to me. Next I would sit dog hold and recall across room Then recall with dumbell in between us. The dog picks up and and delivers Next I sat the dog and had it fetch to the side and recall back across room. Then moved to send from side. From there I went to the yard for a repeat. I was dealing with a specific issue and I took about 3 months to work through this. While I did this inside I was always sitting in a chair for the delivery. Yes it did work. Country Joe

Working Setters I find it interesting to read that in your experience is you have found it harder to train you dogs for field trials rather than retrieving trials when your dogs are bred for field work. or did you use another breed for retrieving trials? I have only seen one Irish setter and one English Pointer run in retrieving trials I have read the new rules for the natural ability test for GSPs. Friends of mine have been involved in their development. They sound very similar to the tests you are talking about. Its interesting to see that there is a difference of opinion with people who have done hearding and OB. Country Joe

From your experience what do you think has been the hardest/most complicated field you have trained your dogs inand the standard you have reached? My experience has been OB = easy, to train to CD standard. Never been beyond that Field work = Medium. Finding game can be hard, winning open trials is hard as you have to beat the top dogs. Retrieving trials = Hard. Most complicated area to train. Very hard to win at All-Age level. Country Joe.

All pups go up and down. You go there when the most active, friendly pup has a pain in the belly you will miss out on picking it. You have picked the right litter,the right breeders and told them what you are looking for in a pup. Then get them to guide you in the right direction. This is what I have done with both Flatcoats. Seeing pups twice in 7 or 8 weeks doesn't give you the overall picture of the litter. I don't believe for one minute with a Flatcoat its all about drive. I believe it's about balance and biddibility. Country Joe.

If I was looking for any pup. I would start with the one that wanted to be with me. Miss or Mister Friendly I have tried testing and sorting out litters. The testing only confirmed this to me. If the litter is well bred for the purpose I want I would be going for the one that wants to be with me. This goes a long way in my book. Sure dogs that are on the edge can make great dogs. They can also have great problems. Country Joe

Sorry Rusky. I meant animal protection. I read the mission statement and must have got confused. country joe.

:D I have met plenty but getting less and less. I don't see why you would mix positive with aversive it would be counter productive. Rusky do you think aversive training is not necessary or cruel? Just noticed your animal rights reference at the bottom of your post. I just trying to get an idea of where you are coming from. country joe

A Flatcoat with high morals. never met one. But I would like to. Country Joe.