Seita

Thursday nights from 6:30pm until 7:30pm. $3 per dog.

Oh bugger I forgot all about that! :p I saw it in the dog world and wanted to go but obviously forgot. Now I'm working on Saturday so no can do!

Like other's have said it's great for keeping your dog in but not others out. I toyed with the idea of one of these or a physical pen, I chose the pen over the fence mostly because of the keeping other dogs out situation. Now I regret that choice and am thinking of getting an eletric fence as well - purely because she is super determined to get out and is very good at doing so!!! :p

Ok seeing as there are no other takers, I'll give it a shot! But first let me say that any training aid can be used to abuse an animal, it depends on the handler and how they use the tool, not the tool itself. I had never heard of a prong collar until I found Dogzonline, granted I never had need for one either. I had always been taught with a check/choke chain, which I found difficult to use correctly. I tend to use martingale collars instead. But that all changed when I got Astro, a foster German Shepherd cross who pulled like a steam train and probably had never recieved any training in her entire life. I struggled to walk this dog, and I'm not a small person and she wasn't such a big dog (25kg). At first I used a flat collar, no stopping her, I then bought a martingale for her, it worked at first but she quickly work out how to pull through it (now in hindsight I realise that I may have used it incorrectly). I tried a harness next, this she found the best to pull in and I found the hardest to control her in. Then finally I resorted to a check chain, it worked at first but as soon as she got out in front of me the chain would slip and she would keep pulling and despite chocking herself would not stop. If I kept her right at my side with the check chain up nice and high where it should be, she was a dream to handle but this is not always possible. So in my desperation I ordered a prong collar... and it was like magic, within one session in our yard she was working on a loose lead. So off to go for a walk to try it out. She was fantastic, she did attempt to pull but a gentle pop on the leash when she got to the end and she would back right off. When it first arrived in the mail, I strapped it around my arm to test it out, you feel pressure when you pull on it but because it's a martingale collar aswell it can only tighten so far so the dog will never choke in it. I would definitely use a prong again if I had a dog which I felt would benefit from using it. I see that myszka beat me!

Do I have to do everything!?!?!?! ok here we go: K9force - http://www.k9force.net/ click on training articles and scan down the list Leerburg - http://www.leerburg.com/ look at the ebooks and training articles DOL thread - http://www.dolforums.com.au/index.php?showtopic=43795 there are a few others on this sort of thing, just do a search on training in drive, or something similar OOoooh look another one - http://forums.dogzonline.com.au/index.php?...;hl=prey++drive Happy reading!!! ETA - the extra link I found

Have you fished up that old thread on drive training yet... I know it's huge but it has sooo much information about drive training in it. Definitely worth reading! That's where I began to understand drive training, also look at K9's website, there are some articles on there about it, and I think I remember reading something on the leerburg website too... those may be good places to start to understand this!

LP - As K9 said its quite a complex process which first requires quite some time of building your dog's drive up for the toy/item. Once you have that drive built up you end up with a dog that pretty much lives to work for that toy! It's an awesome method for training and I am currently training my young girl this way. I'm not sure I'll ever go back to another way! As for how to train something specific, first you need that foundation and then it kind of depends on the dog I think (K9 you can correct me if I'm wrong). For example with drop, I used the toy to lure Ella into the position and when her chest hit the ground she was rewarded with the toy. Heel is more complex but again I guided her into position. As for repetitions, it's the same as any other form of training, you start small just a few minutes of training or a few reps and gradually increase that as your dog learns what you want. But like I said you need that foundation training or your dog will probably get bored of the toy after a couple of reps. If you get the chance to go to one of K9's training sessions I highly recommend them!

JulesP - I will take that into consideration as well, at the moment we are still working out what speed I need to run at to get her to gait right. I'm just jogging at the moment because if I start running faster she breaks gait, but that's just a training thing which I expect she'll get over as she gets more comfortable with gaiting. Erny - I'm not sure my being relaxed is going to work that well... I took her to a show on the weekend, in her first show she kept her tail down the whole time (I was nervous), by the second show I was more relaxed and her tail went up! Maybe I need to act nervous!!! I will have to try this out tomorrow, see if she gaits right with her tail up or not... I guess I can't start training anything till I know exactly what it is that makes her put her tail up. I know that when I take her cycling, she gaits along beside me quite calmly with her tail down, but when I heel her around the backyard her tail is up. Might have to do some tests in a few different locations so determine when she does it! LP - basically, I think it's when she's excited that her tail goes up, whether she's looking at me or not (that is something we are fixing too). Skip - yeh, according the the breed standard the border collie's tail is usually kept low with a slight swirl at the end. It may be raised when excited but should not be carried over it's back. When you see a true working border collie it will always have it's kept nice and low as it works, I suppose it would probably put the sheep off it it was flying around over it's back!

Thanks guys for answering my question! LP- she holds it perfect on the stack and probably about 25% of the time she holds it right when gaiting. I also thought about c&t for correct gaiting when the tail is down but I don't think she will realise about the tail bit - that's why I was thinking of sessions purely targetting her tail - ie, get her excited, get the tail up and then c&t for when it comes down to normal position. The other problem with c&t for correct gait with tail down is that as soon as I click/praise, the tail comes back up again! Erny - that was my sort of thinking to re: whether she would connect the praise while gaiting to her tail or not. As for your query about the standard of gaiting when the tail is down compared to when its up, I think her gait is actually better when her tail is where it should be. When she's got it up she tends to be bouncing more than she should, although some of that I think is still due to excitement... JulesP - That is a method that some people do use and I personally would preffer not to use it, (a) because it makes the showing experience not a positive one and (b) it wrecks her gait. I have tried to smooth her tail down gently while gaiting but every time I lean in towards her she thinks I'm going to give her drop command and hits the deck! Not quite the effect that I was hoping for!

Shellybeggs - thanks for that! I am working on getting her to calm down - not an easy job unfortunately, she's still very much a puppy and a very highly driven one at that!!! Although I will admit that she has improved heaps in just the last few weeks where I've been taking her along to training and a show or two as well. I do agree that there is heaps of tampering in the show ring and I really don't think that I am one of those, if she wasn't good enough to show then I wouldn't bother, all I'm trying to do is teach her what she's meant to do with her tail! So now that everyone has had a go at my reasons and intentions behind this, does anyone actually have any suggestions on methods? Wouldn't it just be like teaching a trick - like getting the dog to wave its paw or something?

Hi guys, thanks for your responses... wylie - I think her tail set is pretty good and like I said she carries it right when she's calm, the show environment is just a bit too exciting for her! I'm an obedience trainer so I know all about consistency and patience!!! :p staffntoller - I don't know what tellington touch is, could you please explain that a bit further? erny - I think what wylie is trying to say is that by using the word 'tail' the judge might get suspicious that the tail had been trained down. As for cheating, I guess it probably is to some extent, especially if the dog does have a bad tail set and always carries the tail high. My last Border Collie did this, the tail was completely wrong I don't think she would have been ABLE to carry it down regardless. But like I said my girl does carry it low when she is calm, she is just highly excitable and I just want to ensure that she knows what she is supposed to do with her tail! :D TSD - thanks for not questioning my intentions behind training this. I do think that it is just excitement and I have been working to make the ring more of a calm place for her but I would still like to have the ability to control what she does with her tail. The same way we stack dogs up in the ring, we have that control to make sure they are presented as best we can. My biggest issues are that I don't get the chance to show very often and the same goes for show training, I often work nights and weekends so she might only make it to one show or training night a month. The other problem is me - I am really new to this and she picks up on my uncertainty!

Yep tail carriage is part of the breed standard and yes carrying it low is where it should be... she does carry it low when she is calm but gets a bit excited at shows and therefore raises it - she does the same with obedience training when shes very excited. For example when I take her out jogging or cycling she quite happily paces along beside me with her tail exactly where it should be (down), but get her out with a toy or lots of other dogs the tail goes up! The more excited she is the higher she carries it!!!

Ok guys I need some ideas. My Border Collie bitch likes to carry her tail nice and high which is a bit of a no no in the show ring. So I need to train her to keep it down. I think clicker training this will be the best but I'm not entirely certain what the best way to go about it is. Do you think she would get it if I get her excited so she brings her tail up and then wait till she drops it again and then c&t that movement. I think initially it will be best if I do this all just standing around doing as little as possible and attach a command to it (like 'tail') and once she gets it in that sort of environment maybe increase the movement/excitement until eventually I can have her running along beside me. This is the only idea I've come up with so far but I'm sure that the brilliant minds of DOL will have others or will be able to improve on my idea. Thanks guys!

That sounds like Ella (border collie) when she was probably about that age!!!! She still digs holes and destroys things if given the chance but less than before. What I have found helps is training before going out and leaving her to her own devices. For example I make sure she gets at least 15 minutes to half an hour of training and games before I leave for work in the morning (5min training, some games, a bit more training etc etc) and then when I'm out she gets things that keep her amused for long periods of time - kong, treat ball, bucket of frozen chicken stock with a bone in the middle (takes hours to defrost at the moment!) and other things like that to keep her busy. I do mix them up on a regular basis to keep them interesting, so not always the same stuff in the kong or treat ball, different bones, sometimes frozen sometimes not! It all takes a bit more effort to organise but it is definitely worth it for keeping the yard/house in good condition!!!

I'm more of a keep the pup seperate person. When I got Ella I kept her apart from Astro (the foster I had at the time) for a lot of the time. I did give them some time together but never when I wasn't around and I would vary the amount of time with Astro depending on how Ella was responding to me. Now that I only have Ella its easier, its just the OH that I need to keep away from Ella - she has a very high positive value for him!!! In the past I always allowed my dogs to be together but as someone else mentioned the second dog bonded really well with the first dog and it was difficult to work her sometimes. Not that she wasn't bonded with me but I would have liked more from her. Hence why this time round I montiored the amount of time spent with each other very carefully. I will also be neutralising my next puppy...

Hey slightly off topic question... Mysticview: if I were to rock up at southside with an already trained dog who I want to proof for obedience competition would you guys make me go through all the classes or could I just jump into the advance class (whatever its called)? My pup will hopefully be ready for trials by the end of the year and I hope to start proofing her soon so will be looking for a club to do that at. I used to go to Bonnies too but like you its now a bit far away for me!!!

It does depend on the vet and the type of vaccine... My pup had a protech duramune c3 vaccine at 6 weeks, then at 12 weeks old had a fort dodge C4 vaccine plus a protech nasal spray thingy for the bordatella. I chose not to get the 16 week booster but the vet wanted to give it. She just had her 12 month booster and hasn't had any problems despite skipping the 16 week shot. ETA: if the vet said that it'll be fine till her 12 month I'd take his advice. Just wait the usual 2 weeks after the shot before taking her out and you'll be fine to start showing her then

My first trialling dog was a bit of a hoot. I was about 12 when I started training him and he was a fairly stubborn dog. I probably started trialling with him at around 3 years old and somehow this dog knew that once he was off lead in a trial ring I really had no control over him... at training he was ok offlead but at a trial he was everywhere BUT the ring. I remember one particular trial where during off lead heel he wandered out of the ring, did a poo, came back to heel, stayed with me for a bit, wandered off again I think he did a pee too (yes I always toilet my dog before trialling, obviously not enough!!) and eventually came back to me. Another incident was with the demo team from my club at the local show (country town). We were doing some agility demos and Buddy somehow decided that he no longer wanted to be there with me, so he took off... We were in the middle of the showring in front of the grandstands and he took off towards the gates. So heres this black dog racing across a large showring with someone running after him yelling 'Buddy!!' and the announcer person calling 'Buddy' over the loudspeakers too!!! The crowd was in stiches of course! He then repeated this exercise at the next country show a week or so later... he was a bit famous for a while with new people to the club asking about the black dog that runs away at shows!!! ;)

My first dog was awful... it probably took me a few years to get him to some kind of trialling level! But he never got a qualify (for obedience that it). But agility and jumpers now theres another story... he probably got both novice titles within a year or so of starting serious training, he was fantastic. I also trained and handled a dog for someone else at this time and had her novice agility and jumpers titles within a year of starting training her - not bad considering I trained her once a week and handled her a trials!!! My next dog, she started training from word go as a pup, I had her in her first sweepstakes (I'm in QLD) at around 1year old and she had her title by 18months old... Agility and Jumpers were the same as the first dog, I started training her and had her first couple of passes within a few months of starting training. The titles did take somewhat longer to finish due to my moving to brisbane with her for uni and doing no training nothing for around 18 months. THen back into the ring after no training and finished the titles in a couple of trials! My current pup, I started serious training with her at around 6months old (she's now 12months old) and I expect a novice title (obedience) by the end of the year, perhaps even a cdx as well! She just needs some polish on her heel work and then shes ready for some more serious proofing and then off we go!!!

Good question!!!! No physical corrections. What about verbal corrections?

What is your definition of purely positive?

How did I get into dog sports? When I was 11 I was hellbent on getting my own dog. We had a rodesian ridgeback as a family pet at the time and after months of persistance I was finally allowed to get my own puppy. I had always wanted a dog that was smart like lassie (watched that as a kid and thought lassie was smart) so I knew that if I wanted a smart dog I would have to take it obedience classes. I had scouted out the local obedience club (Atherton Tablelands Dog Obedience Club) years earlier and knew that as soon as my pup was old enough I would be there! So I ended up with a random cross bred mutt who I started training (I was 12) she did really well but unfortunately she was hit by a car while still a puppy.. but hey I was hooked, so enter buddy (border collie/kelpie), I got buddy up to trialling level but as MrsD mentioned non-peds were not easy to trial in QLd in those days so enter seita (border collie)... Agility also came into the picture somewhere in there.... Did you get your dog specifically for a purpose? With Lilly (dog #1) no I just wanted a dog, with Buddy kind of, he was bc cross and lots of bc's did obedience so surely he was going to be a good dog (think again!), with Seita - definintely, she was purchased with the sole intention of trialling which she did with a fair bit of success... Unfortunately lost Seita at 5 years old and was dogless for a few years. Ella (bc as well) was added to the family with showing and obedience in mind. Have I since taken up sports that I'd never thought of prior to my dog? Well kind of, I've taken up showing with Ella. I had never thought of showing until I got Seita who was definitely NOT show quality so wanted my next dog to be suitable for showing and obedience. I am also looking at dabbling into herding with Ella now too. Has my obssession made way for other dogs into my life? Well with Seita yes, Dad would so never have agreed to a second dog if I didn't want to compete with her. Currently I only have Ella and I am trying to convince my OH to allow a second dog in and yes my argument is my 'obsession' Prior to dog obsession... Well I am one of the lucky ones whose obsession started very early (11years old - currently 22yo) so I can't really remember life without this obsession. However during the dark dogless years I chatted with doggy friends, visit the parents (and buddy - he's retired with them now) and read copious amounts of dog training stuff which is how DOL was found! :p

You're in for a long journey on this one. My BC is almost 12 months old and will still find something to do with a water bowl. If she can't dig at the water then she sticks her head completely in (or as much as she can). For her crate I bought a small 1.5 litre stainless bucket with a hook on it so that I could attach it to her crate at her head height when she was standing. This solved the dunk the head prob as its too small and it solved the dig the water prob as its too high to get her feet in. Only prob is you have to fill it up pretty regularly but thats not too bad considering its only her crate. As for her outside water bucket, she likes to drag those around and do the dig or dunk things as well as tip it over and dig in the mud the spilt water creates. Problem solved by wedging it in a corner with a brick in it and using a wide but low bucket so more surface area but less depth and we dont come home to a dripping puppy anymore!!! I do give a big thumbs up to giving some form of water to play with (ie clam shell) cos bcs really do love water!! Anyway, enough from me and Good Luck

hi, I've always taught heel on the move by praising and reinforcing the correct position. I have never heard of teaching a static heel, could someone direct me towards some info (maybe online) that will explain this to me better? It sounds like a really good way to train and I'd love to learn more! Thanks

You could probably use one the jet air spray type collars - works the same way but a bit 'nicer'