Seita

Wow this thread grew quickly! Thanks LP you inspired me to do some training with Ella (haven't done a thing with her in like 2 weeks). We had a good day today... tomorrow may be different!

Due to the heat and the hours I've been working lately and the fact that Ella is now 6 weeks pregnant I haven't been doing much training for the last few weeks. But Leopuppy's other thread inspired me to give ella another shot and see how she goes. Due to an ant infestation in my backyard I had to work inside on a rug but that didn't seem to bother her at all. I put 2 unscented metals out and the scented, she seemed a bit confused and brought the wrong one back first try but quickly went back and got the right one. I gave her another shot which she got right so I added another unscented which she also got right twice so I added yet another unscented and she did that correctly a few times. So I thought lets really test this out so I threw 6 unscenteds out there with the scented one and she brought me the right one back twice before I decided to stop!!! I got a bit excited by this so thought I'd try woods, I put 2 unscenteds out and she picked up the right one but decided to eat it instead of bring it back (nice way to destroy my articles!) but after that first attempt of 'taste' discrimination she went out and brought the right one back 3 more times. I'll try woods again tomorrow but that was enough for today I think. We just might get this scent thing yet!

lol! I know how you feel! One day my girl looks like she understands the send away or something like that and then the next she plays dumb and doesn't do it. You'll get there in the end!

Well done rubystar! I'm still thrilled with how Ella went yesterday!

Ok so the rain cleared and I thought why not try again but on grass. I also used the oldest scented article that I've been using all along (I was using a different one that I hadn't been using as much in my earlier session) with brand new articles that haven't been used very much as the unscenteds. So I started with 3, and she did it 5 times correctly!!! So I added a 4th, which she did correctly twice, so I added a 5th which she did correctly 3 times!!! So I called it a night after that! She didn't get a single one wrong and the best thing is in the last few she was going to grab them but would hold back just before she grabbed it and sniff instead!!! On the last one she didn't even pick one up until she grabbed the right one and brought it back. I think we may have had that "lightbulb" moment!!!! Can you tell I'm stoked?!

So you think I should jump straight to 3 and build up from there?

I really think it depends on the dog, sure don't bore them but if they're keen to learn and eager to please I say why not have some fun. I do steer clear of doing heaps of heelwork but I used to train Ella 3 times a day (max 3-5 minutes at a time) every day from quite a young age and she's turned out brilliantly. I don't like long sessions either but I quit just as the dog reaches it's peak and then end the session leaving the dog wanting more and if you have a dog with a good long attention span than those sessions will be longer. I think it's different with each dog. As for my training session... concrete is a major flop - I will not do that again. There was no smelling involved at all and it was just a case of grab bring it back oops mum's ignoring it must be wrong go get a different one. Her sessions on grass over the last day or two haven't been much better... I think I'm going to go back to ultra basics with the two articles at a good distance from each other and follow the dogscouts method quite closely... cos she's not smelling the articles, the cans however are very interesting and she smells those instead!!! ARGH!

Let the poor girl grow up if she wants too!!! My last girl was a very mature dog right from the start, she was always soo much more grown up than our older boy (3 years her senior). Whereas Ella is probably going to be stuck somewhere in that adolescent stage for the rest of her life!!! Ok going out to do another session with her... on the cement cos it's bucketing outside!

Am I on the right track and you're asking how to 'do' drive training and basic obedience at the same time? I suggest start on your drive work away from an obedience club, actually don't bother doing any training there for the time being, work on drive at home and build up distractions slowly before heading back to obedience classes. I strongly suggest doing Steve's distance learning TID program and he'll most definitely help with these sorts of questions.

Well I did another session, not quite the same sucess as yesterday, she got hung up when there were 3 unscenteds out she just kept bringing the wrong one back so I packed up and left it. But she obviously loves this game because I got my new articles this afternoon and as I was unpacking them she could hear the clinking and dashed out to the yard anticipating another game! I might give her another session later tonight. Although I did discover something today - if I lie the cans down and keep them all fairly close together (within 15 cms of each other) and tuck the articles between them she uses her nose more and picks them up less, it also makes it a hell of a lot harder to see which is the right article though!!!

I needed another full set because one of mine is pretty crappy and was missing a metal article (I know it's here somewhere I just don't know where!) and decided that since I was starting on metal it would be handy to have some extra metals lying around in case. I figured that she would pick up the wood and leather articles pretty quickly so will try and keep to training with 2 sets of those rather than all 3 as this girl has a tendancy to chew - you should see my training seekback article!! I'll do another session this afternoon so we'll see how we go then!

I will use the cans again but I think I need bigger heavier ones cos she just bowls past the current ones and grabs the articles, they don't slow her down at all!!! I might need to get myself some of those catering sized 1.5L cans!!! I am currently reusing articles if she does bring back the wrong one but only once, if she brings me the same one back I remove it. If I had to remove every article she picks up I'd never have any to use cos she picks them all up! If I put 10 articles out then she'd probably pick up every one of them! But I have just ordered another full set plus a set of just metals because one of mine is missing one so that will make 19 metal articles in total once they arrive. I've got 2 sets already so I think that will be enough!!

That's kind of what I'm expecting. I figure that as she gets better at finding the right one she'll start using her nose more than her mouth. And when I start decreasing the amount of food scent on the article she'll have to really start using her nose but that won't be for some time I think!

Well after giving Ella 2 days break I tried the cans again today. Started with 4 cans and 1 scented article which she got right. I added an unscented article she got it wrong on the first try but I gave her another shot and she got it right. So I added another article and she got it right again so I added another one (now at 4 unscented) and she got it right! I did that one more time before taking out the cans and putting 5 articles out (1 scented). She got it right the first time, brought the wrong one back on the 2nd and 3rd times but when I ignored her she went back and got the right one both times. I tried 2 more times which she got right both times! 3 out of 5 isn't bad I think! I'm not sure it's a real 'lightbulb' moment but it's definitely given me the encouragement I needed to keep training this! She is still grabbing the first one she sees but then sniffs others while carrying the first which she will trade for others until she is satisfied with the one she's picked. She's also still tasting them and she will pick up every article out there which is probably why she brings the wrong one back every so often (it has the scent on it cos she put it on the article!). But she does look like she's getting more confident because when she is carrying one she will sniff the others first before putting the one in her mouth down and picking up another. This whole pick up and trade articles thing makes it really hard to tell which is the right one though! I have to watch the right article very very carefully because she'll put others down right next to each other and move articles all over the place! Aside from the tie down method is there some way to discourage her from picking up the first one she sees? Or do you think that as she gets better with the sniffing bit she'll feel less inclined to grab one immediately?

That's awesome! I hope I get my 'lightbulb' moment next week!!!

It's ok you can hijack it's about the same topic!!

Good on you for starting a plan to get your dog into trialling! :rolleyes: My training plan goes a little like this: start in the back yard keeping it short and lots of fun - no full heel patterns and never do a full trial work out and especially keep some exercises broken up like the recall don't often do a recall and then a finish afterward etc. Once the dog is work beautifully in the backyard I move to the front yard/driveway and get the dog to the same levels again keeping the training sessions short and fun. Once dog is doing really well there I move to a quiet park, do the same thing, then to a busier park (say with kids playing), then I might move to near a dog park when there is a few dogs inside but I'll train outside the park. Only once my dog works consistently there do I start working in a class with other dogs. Every once in a while during these various stages I might do a full heel pattern or a couple of exercises grouped together but never a full trial workout until my dog is at dog club distraction level! And when I train a new exercise I go through these same stages before I'll do that new exercise at a dog club. As for teaching certain things like heel, I like to teach heel as a position rather than a movement. Which means I teach where heel is as a stationary position - sit on my left looking at me. I'll teach the dog to find heel from various angles and distances before I start moving. I also teach drop, sit and stand as seperate commands while not heeling and throw these into a heel pattern when the dog understands heel a bit better. Once my dog knows where heel is will I take a step telling the dog to heel. I'll only do a few steps to start with until the dog 'heels' like I want it to. Then I'll increase the number of steps, then I might throw in a command (stand/drop) or a turn and build it up gradually from there. I use a similar method for all exercises, start small and build it up slowly. You said you thought you might have trouble with SFE- start by doing a stand stay, then start walking around the dog, then touch it just a bit, then increase the amount of touching you do, then get another person to walk around, then get that person to touch it lightly and continue to increase from there. Like I said this is my method, everyone will have different methods. Use what you feel comfortable and confident with and use what works for your dog. Good luck and let us know how you get on!

Well I tried the cans today and when it was just the one scented article with the four cans she just bolted out grabbed the article and brought it back. She did the same when I put an unscented article out amoung the cans but still didn't sniff. She's just grabbing the one she sees me put out there. I think I'll give her a few days' break before trying again.

I can't help on the ecollar aspect but to stop the dog from getting collar smart with the containment system make sure you never let the dog go over the wire without you when you are taking it from the property - a leash is best. Basically you fool them to believe that the only way past the zone is when you are with them! I'm sure some of the more experienced e-collar users will have ideas about using an ecollar and prevent collar smartness. Do a search on this thread as I think there are a few other ecollar topics that cover this.

She sees where I put it but then runs out and doubts herself and searches everywhere else before coming back to the articles! She's a funny one this one! I'll move her back onto the grass tomorrow with the cans and see what she does!

Yay! So i'm not the only one with a weird dog!! I was working her on the grass and actually she was using her nose a bit more then but she was searching the whole yard for the articles so I switched to the mat so she would have a more defined boundary to search. Do you think I should switch back to working on the grass and just let her search far and wide? I also know about the tie down method and did think about using it but I'm fairly certain she'll learn to test which ones are tied down. The dog scouts method is basically the same as the method I'm using The cans idea is good I'll definitely give that a shot. What if I put out the scented metal article and an unscented wood or leather article do you think that would help her to differentiate a bit more? Anyway, thanks so much for the ideas I feel a bit more knowledgeable about training this now (first UD dog ever!).

Just a thought, do you always release your dog from a stay using a release command? I've noticed that many people who have stay trouble will often inadvertly use stay at home and don't release the dog from the stay command. For example you are leaving and you tell the dog to stay at the gate while you close it and then walk off and forget to release the dog - often this teaches the dog that stay doesn't really mean stay but rather that once you're away from the dog it can do as it pleases. What someone else suggested is probably a good way to go about fixing this problem - go back to the beginning once the dog drops reward it - then gradually increase the time while you're still with the dog and then begin to increase distance again. Your dog will probably pick it up again very quickly but often going back the start and reminding the dog what stay is works well.

Hi, I've been working on scent discimination with my dog for about 2 weeks now using Deborah Jones' Click'n'Sniff method. I'm only working with 2 metal articles at this stage but have noticed 2 problems with my girl. Firstly she bolts to the mat at 100 miles an hour (not really a problem) but she then grabs the first article she sees - does anyone have any suggestions on how to get her to sniff first before grabbing? The second problem stems from the first, after she's grabbed the first article she looks for others and then puts the first down, picks up the second, puts it down and picks up the first again - she sometimes does this over and over 'tasting' to see which one is right. If she does this too many times she seems to get confused and just grabs one and brings it back. How can I get her to sniff instead of taste? I'm not using overly smelly food intentionally and trying not to put too much on the article that I want her to retrieve to discourage her from tasting it but I think she believes the exercise is all about taste discrimination! The funny thing is if she brings me back the wrong one and I give her a nrm she will go back to the mat and sniff to check if there are any other articles before she brings me the correct one (and there is only two). Has anyone else encountered similar problems and does anyone have any suggestions for slowing her down enough to sniff before grabbing and to stop her from tasting the articles?

Thanks Tony! Hopefully I'll see you there, I'll the the person with the wild b&w border collie who plays tug during training! I'll be the one with the Golden Pointer Cool! Hopefully I'll see you there!

Thanks Tony! Hopefully I'll see you there, I'll the the person with the wild b&w border collie who plays tug during training!