KismetKat

*dons "joe public" hat* They are both Beagles! *takes off hat* I have a rescue dog from a breed-specific rescue. The rescue organisation have a good idea who the dog's breeder was just by looking at him. Somewhere, my rescue dog has papers, but I don't have them. So this means that I can't say my dog is breed "x" as I don't have the papers to prove it. Occasionally I've wondered what would happen if unpapered dogs were allowed to go up against papered ones in the ring.

Well I've been there with 2 doggies (one of them quite big) and my 12 y.o. daughter. Mind you, the 12y.o. spent the whole time wishing she wasn't on holiday with her parents! The dogs had a great time tho. Spiff - as far as dog rules are concerned following Best Friends lead (excuse any pun) would be a good idea - they have a well run ship there as far as doggie rules/etiquette there. Is you facility in Victoria? If so please PM me with the details.

I disagree. Why the DDs are so popular is the clever marketing. They are the 'perfect' dog, have 'hybrid vigour', have the 'best of both breeds' and what's more, they 'don't shed'. It's dogs for dummies ;) But that being said, many DD owners turn out to be wonderful dog owners and would have no problem getting a dog from an ethical breeder/rescue.

I must admit I am having trouble imagining how a guest house would work as in my mind's eye I see a guest house as supplying a bedroom, and then having common areas. What do you do with your dog/s when you are spending time in the common areas? Perhaps you could paint a word picture spiff? Things I like for 'dog friendly' 1) dogs allowed inside 2) small fenced area attached for toileting without having to put on-lead. 3) a fully-fenced off-lead area (with balls and toys) that you don't have to share with other dogs if you don't want to (like they do at Best friend Holiday Retreat - one of my dogs, while fine with most dogs, is not so good with SWFs) 4) supply couch covers for those of us with dogs that will get on the furniture ;) 5) supply extra towels for doggie use if they get wet (did I read there is a beach nearby?) 6) hydrobath facilities (in case dog finds something stinky to roll in at the beach) 7) getting back to point 3, also like BF Retreat dogs on-lead in common areas so we know they are under control and won't run up to (potentially) unfriendly dog. 8) check that all dogs who ever visit are fully vaccinated and flea-treated.

Have just fallen in love with the Book Depository - they stock the book series I've been reading and sell them for around $13 when I've been paying $17 at Fishpond (mind you, they were $24 from the bookshop). Thanks for the link ETA - you can also search for audio books, which are great for car trips.

Well bugger me, it's only taken 13 pages at last some common sense True - but alas when fiddling with humans it's called eugenics and is somewhat frowned upon.

Does that make it a fault of the breed or the buyers? Perhaps you should add "breeder" into that question, cos they should certainly be upfront to buyers about what to expect from the breed. But yes, the buyer should ultimately take responsibility. If they want to make a new law they really should make one against people dumping animals just because they are not 'convenient'.

I wasn't arguing "for" crossbreeding - just pointing out breeds have changed anyways, including the lowering of drive when breeding away from working lines. It makes me think of the book Marley and Me - I am guessing that what the yanks refer to as a "field" labrador (which is what Marley turned out tobe) they are meaning working lines bred. At some point in the book the author notes the differences (not just physical) between Marley and those nice labs bred along 'english' lines. Perhaps sand grubber can tell me more? I haven't But unfortunately there are a lot of dumped beagles out there

*snap* PF - I was about to recomend Fishpond too. They are quick and reliable and prices are usually good. Amazon is cheaper but they charge so much for shipping to AU and also the shipping is slow (in my past experience).

Some thoughts... People have complained about the title of the seminar, Building better dogs" - but isn't that what breeders are doing anyway? Always striving to improve the breed and not breed from poor specimans? People say this sort of seminar will result in government legislating all sorts of rules and tests that breeders must do for all dogs to meet some 'insert batteries here' type dog. As there are many debilitating and even lethal genetic issues that dogs can carry, and government hasn't legislated about such things, why is it such a certainty in some people's minds that government would legislate about temperament? People say they want their purebred dogs to stay exactly as they are, yet old photos of many breeds show breeds have changed (and in some cases as recent as only 40 years ago). People say this is about breeding dogs to reduce their drive and changes what they were meant to be bred for - can I point people out to the many threads of arguments about "bench vs working lines" I have seen on these forums. Seems to me breeders of show line working dogs have already done some fiddling. People say they have beagles with perfect recall and the 'sniffy' gene is not a problem - yet I have seen more threads that I can poke a stick at from beagle owners asking about fully-fenced parks and even advice on the beagle rescue website that these dogs should never be left off-lead due to their sniffiness. People say that it is all about training and socialisation - yet I was chatting with a breeder just the other day and a dog she had kept for stud was proving to be somewhat DA. She told me she thought she should not breed from him afterall as she was not happy with his temperament. And this a dog raised in the breeders own home!

I got a forwarded email of an originating email about this - the original said "pass on to anyone that may be interested" (or something along those lines. Doesn't sound like a 'closed shop' event to me.

OT: being unusually tall with slim build and also having long fingers can be an indicator of Marfan Syndrome.

Colour-coded? I love it!

I used to see a basset at dog school - and totally agree with you. The basset pictured in this book is by FAR a better looking dog.

well I like the stuff Black Dog has and they're local Got my daughter a beautiful hot pink treat back for Christmas

Well that puppy buyer has now moved on from the beautiful lab pup (I saw the pics) and is now asking about West Highland Terriers.

So you believe this research (which is only about finding out if one can scientifically test for a single trait of 'amicability') would lead to mandatory testing? What "mandatory" testing are breeders currently required to do by statute?

From memory it's pretty quick - I think I started our dogs the day before we left.

Have fun:) and yes I did this research a couple of years ago for a holiday up in NSW and found that proban was really the best way to go.

People don't seem to understand the nature of a PhD - many here seem to think that the candidate is out to "prove" something and that the study is being funded by some nefarious commercial enterprise for evil purposes. In this country Phd's are funded by the Australian taxpayer via the Australian Postgraduate Award scheme. Also PhD's are about asking a question, and researching for an answer. From all I have read and know the study is about seeing if it is possible to objectively and scientifically measure a particular trait in dogs. Therefore it doesn't matter what various breeds and crosses and mutts the 200 dogs being used are as the project is about developing the test. I would guess that the wider variety of dogs used all the better (but I'm no scientists so maybe that is wrong).

Erny - it is not "intended" research - it is currently ongoing. And perhaps you should find out more about it rather than guessing and making assumptions and crying "1984". And really, the simple answer is, if you don't like the project, then don't participate.

Mind you, it occurs to me that if such a scientific test of "amicability" could be proven then that could mean the end of BSL.

As someone else with some familiarity with the project, I feel confident to say that it is looking at individual dogs not breeds. And as mlc has pointed out - if something comes of it then this could be another tool breeders can use (if they chose to) in assessing possible parent dogs.

Here's one. I have bolded the interesting text. Dr Bennett said people should worry less about a dog's breed and more about their overall behaviour background to decide if one is right for them. "We think that's what we should be breeding, those character traits, as opposed to specific dog breeds." "If we can test the parents, it could lead to a certificate of temperament that will show this dog has been friendly, safe with kids and easy to manage. Firstly you quote from the bloody Herald Sun Hardly a font of accurate and in-depth reportage. Who knows what context they pulled the quotes from. And it's interesting that the last few posts from you and others in this thread have been about NOT breeding from 'whacko' dogs. Which, I think is what the quotes are actually on about, i.e. even if a dog is perfect physically, if it has a poor temperament it should not be bred from. Also it is quite right that pet owners should be less concerned about what a dog looks like and more about how it fits in with their family. People getting the 'wrong' dog for them is why so many end up in shelters. You have to keep in mind that this is all about your average Joe Blow who wants a dog, not keen enthusiasts like DOLers.

And so the smear and innuendo campaign starts. How about stating your case with some solid proof Jed?