KismetKat

The net search I did came up with a few B&Bs in Armidale that were 'pet firendly' but closer reading showed they ALL required dog 'outside'. The Alpaca farm didn't specify though, and I can't imagine (as they also allow cats) anything thinking their cat 'outside' was OK. Especially in winter.

Perry's mum - Glenhope Alpaca farmstay in Armidale says it welcomes dogs cats and horses. They don't specify about indoors tho. One site about it DID say offlead was OK if under voice control - so they sound pretty pet friendly to me (have only ever seen them say ON leash) Lilysmum - we've found a very comfortable motel in Wagga that allows (smallish) dogs indoors. Yes, a lot of it is about how you approach them. The owners have a JR themselves. If Wagga helps in one of your interstate trips I can give you the name of the motel.

oooh, that sounds SERIOUSLY yummmy! but does it work as well if the liquid isn't warm/hot?

Well Erny didn't specify that the biscuit had to be be a tim tam

what a wonderfully simple answer to the 'issue' erny. Thanks again for your clear insight.

shoey - mine is in the room with us, but she never bludges for food (having never been fed from the table I assume) and doens't do any 'shark circling". So her presence is not an issue. Wjile we have dinner she is generally ensconced on the couch snooozing.

I too would be interested in this - I am in a similar bind to shoemonster. Due to night toileting issues I swapped my dogs main meal to the morning - so I always make sure I have gulped down a weetbix before I feed her. While she is eating I feed the cat his brekky in the laundrey. BUT she also has a 'snack' meal of a small amount of complete dry food in the evening. She gets this, like showmonster's boy, about 5.30pm (after a trip to the park). This time I feed the cat first and then here. Our family meal is around 7-7.30. For any meal she IS made to perform - a drop or a sit/stay or a TOT. I of course eat during the day and she is never given stuff from table/plate and thus never hovers or begs for food. Is this all enough to keep dominance established?

I scored a freebie copy of a DVD called The Dog Listener - it's a bit like Super Nanny but with dogs. The show's format is a bit naff but she seems to get good results (though watching back to back eps on DVD it was a bit repetitive.). Aside from establishing leadership her main tool seems to be ignorning the dog. She was basically saying that by looking at the dog, the dog then thinks some sort of behaviour is required, so it does something (anything!) in the hope that it is the behaviour that is wanted. So when there was a scared shy dog, she would not try and make friends with it, but owners and her would sit in lounge room, not making any eye-contact with the dog (and also she would not behave in any threatening way). Eventually dog realises it doesn't have to 'do' anything, and relaxes. She does the same sort of thing with over-friendly dogs, don't make eye contact, gently push away if it jumps on you, wait till dog settles of own accord, and then she says 'hello' (so saying hello on her terms). What do behaviourists here think of her? I think her name was Jan Fennel. She's a brit.

Sorry - haven't read the whole thread, but a woman with a very glossy lab told me that celery is great for coats - so I have always included celery in my dog's diet. I can't tell you how many people comment on her glossy shiny coat. Does anyone else vouch for celery?

aahhh the bad good old days.

my dog grooms her front claws - but only occasionally. She's like a kid biting her fingernails I don't worry as there is no irritation and she only does it sometimes.

Thanks tim - and yes, always happy to go back to basics. With school hols down here in Vic it is also a good time to truly rope in the kids - whether they like it or not! As to Erny's post - that is what it was like when I was growing up (and also when I last owned a dog before now. Had dogs till about 14 years, then cats, and now a dog who is 2). Things used to kinda happen naturally, now you have to think things thru. I must admit to being a bit slow on the uptake with some things, but am now doing best at getting "a" into "g" :D ETA - tim I think with the kids it be best I was out of sight

Thank you K9 - you are a star! As I have a sit/stay happening, should I go totally back to basics and tie her up? Or is it OK to run with the progress I have to hand? For instance, as I have been working on the 'come' command one of the things I have been doing is getting her in a sit/stay, putting the food down at some distance, and then calling her to 'come' to me first BEFORE i release her to go to the food. I had been doing this with my handy assistant (well one of the kids really) who would pick the bowl up if she headed there first, but tonight I did it sans assistant! She started to head to me, then headed to the bowl, I growled no/leave, and called 'come' and she came to me. I think in a muddled sort of way we were kinda getting there - but also agree that going back to total basics can't hurt (if that is what you rec). Now what happened to that G&T? :D

Thanks mysxka! I already do that with her, but with a sit/stay. So just gotta get the kids feeding her. She has her main meal in the morning, and a small amount of dry early evening - the evening 'snack' would be a convenient one to start making the kids responsibility and they could take turns. Ta heaps. and, hmmm, 'triangle of temptation' - reminds me of Meet the Parents and the "circle of trust'.

Unless I've misunderstood - I think that's the idea lablover! K9 - i've done a forum search for TOT, and also looked at your site - can't find anything more about "TOT"

Gemi it IS generally me who does the feeding - will start instigating this with the kids. Pooch WILL do things for DD for treats, and she also practices the 'come' game with me (again with treats). Pooch is also very sweet with her and allows her self to be occasionally dressed up (yesterday it was fairy wings! ). I wish DS had kept up the training, as I already had the dog in a more advanced class we WAS progressing nicely (albeit dog had to be dragged onto the field as she didn't want to leave me, but she would settle pretty quickly - and I would hide! ). He'd intended to get her up to doing agility (something I'm not sure I am fit enough for) - but then after the summer break he refused to go back as 'she didn't listen' to him. oh well, he IS going into those teenage years

ahhh, so you HAVEN'T worked with children? Can I have a G&T while I tell you about it? *cheeky grin* Seriously tho, they are constantly reminded. Older child was even sent to obedience school with pooch, but without 'instant results" gave up (do I blame computers?). Younger child tries harder, but with high voice doesn't seem to get the dogs attention and gets discouraged. She is the main one who complains dog loves me more than her. Today had a visiting dog who is well obedience trained - I could get him to sit/drop/wait/return to heel, but when young daughter tried it the dog only looked at me! She was saying the right words and doing the right actions, but he ignored her. He knows her as well as me - so wt?

Thank you for your good humour K9. While all too late for my own pooch, how does one make the kids not 'neutral'? I can make them important in MY eyes, but if their behaviour is erratic (in leadership etc. terms) to the dog - what then?

another 2 cents worth and I would appreciate K9 to look at this issue from the trainers perspective and see if there is ANY way around the issue. I note that K9 works with animals not children I have said my dog is a 'family' pet. What this means is that it is neither practical NOR desirable that I be the ONLY point of command. neutralisation to ALL but me is not on the cards! The point of a 'family pet' is the kids have something that they love, and it loves them. For the kids to be 'neutral' really defeats the purpose. They alread complain that the dog loves me more than she loves them. OK, seems like I had the perfect dog to "neutralise" - but I don't want to do that. The kids WANT to interact with the dog, and I want the dog to "naturally" interact with them! Then there is OH to consider *sigh* Only yesterday he patted his thigh and said the dogs name. Dog looks at him confused. I ask him what he expects dog to do. He says he wants dog to come. I state that he has to use commands taught, put arms in air and call "come" and dog romps to me. I touch her collar and she sits. I remind OH about commands, he puts one hand in air and calls "come" and dog goes to him. Honestly, kids may need less reminding that OH. That being said, kids encourage dog to jump up to say hello, then complain dog jumps up to say hello. Are we now all feeling for the poor dog here? Given most dogs are family pets... Kids want demonstrative love from dog. Neutralised dog will not give that. Dog in family situation WILL (unfortunately) get mixed messages. I don't think my situation is abnormal. what to do?

That's great news DB - will def watch it. Just re your website - I went to have a look and it triggered some sort of Microsoft download. I kept on clicking "cancel" but the dialogue box kept on coming up again and again. ???

Yes have a quiet word to the instructor. I have a smilar(ish) problem - but up higher up in the classes and have a dog in my class who often lunges at other dogs. It's not a matter that the dog is not corrected, it is! But as the lunges are SO frequent I wonder why the dog has got so far as it has. Yes maybe the dog can do the requisite sit/stays, drops, heel nicely, whatever - but as it constantly lunges at other dogs... I used to try and make sure I was training well away from this dog, but now we are doing weaving... Should the dog have not been promoted as it has been? Or is this a thing that is good practice for MY dog to learn to ignore?

Lablover - it wasn't me who used the term "robotic", I think it was Cactus - but I don't think she meant it the way you seem to be reading it. It was something along the lines of "some people may think..." The post is on the prevous page - so I can't find it. Certainly I am always vbery impressed with highly trained dogs. K9 - "family pet" means to me a member of the family. I guess I come out of the "slightly dotty english school" of dog ownership, but I am no Mrs Humphrey (was it Humphrey? On All Creatures Great and Small) and her Tricky woo. Lucky you :rolleyes: However given that I didn't do all this neutralisation, I will just have to perservere best I can. I've had some helpful PMs and, although her recall is pretty good, will go back to basics to reinforce and then build on some more.

Thanks for getting us back on track and providing answers K9 Some thoughts. Oh you are obviously younger and fitter than me! :rolleyes: Never saw the point of not eating a cake I had But seriously - I don't know if the method you describe is practical (or maybe even desirable) for a 'family pet'. If I am the be all and end all to the dog, where do the hubby and kids come in? Kids are already jealous that she's more excited to see me than anyone else Other points about reliability and safety noted. And I do already limit her freedom (tho you might say this is a 'limited' sort of limiting ) as I pick my times/places/situations for allowing her offlead. Thanks K9 ETA - and apologies for not reading all the thread and causing you to repeat earlier comments.

Actually greymate, I wasn't meaning kids and razor scooters and dogs, but kids on razor scooters and people! Parents buy these dangerous things and let kids who are FAR too young for them (imho) ride them about - often with either no helmets, or helmets that don't fit and are worn incorrectly. As an experienced motorcyclist it's a pet peeve. And I am well aware of the regulations regarding offleash dogs and playgrounds/bbq areas - and I observe them. I've also picnicked in an offlead area with my dog, but am tolerant of wandering labradors sniffing for a handout (which they don't get ). It's all a bit like that post about the dog beach where the woman didn't mind having a dog shake water over her cos it was a dog beach and it was to be expected and she was dressed approppriately anyway. However if a woman went to the dog beach, without a dog, and was dressed in her best cream linen suit... The nanny state would have various GR owners lining up to pay her drycleaning bill. How about her not doing something so silly in the first place? ETA - sorry erny, i have posted about this before, the thread has wandered offtopic. I really DID want to know about the middle ground from K9's methods.

In which case myszka is equally guilty - even tho onleash she does not have 100% control of her dog. She has admitted that she would have to scare or kick another dog away! and what about the kids on razor scoooters zooming around the play area. A right menace they are. Perhaps I could get them muzzled and leashed, or even put down? What is needed is some commonsense. As you would not picnic in the middle of an offleash area, you would also not picnic in the middle of a play area with a scooter trail. To insist on doing so is errant arrogance and stupidity. what did i say earlier about nanny states?