KismetKat

I have read here mixed opinions about something called the 'alpha roll'. Is it good or bad? If your dog has seriously trangressed, what would really ram the message home? I've generally used the "grabbing dog by the muzzle" response, along with a long, growled, "Nooooooo". If the trangression is serious enough, is this enough? Or am I being too hard? Are other methods (alpha roll, picking dog up by front legs, whatever) better responses? The situation I am wanting to discipline her with is her, occasional, reactiveness to small scared dogs. ADT tell me a correction - but she has a neck like a mallee bull! Thus the muzzle grabbing - correction on chain seems to have little effect. She IS learning that I am not happy with her reaction to a small percentage of dogs, and we do have improvement - but is what I am doing right or wrong? Help and advice please from experienced dog owners.

Given how unco I am I think clicker training might be a disaster :D also the dog is well over 2. We've had some practice with me running to give her treats and the good news is (given she prefers hand signals) is she is responsonding well to voice alone.

*slaps hand to forehead* Thanks guys! Yes she does get a 'good girl' for the drop, but heck, that's not in the same league as a food treat is it? :D Thanks for all the tips and advice - will let you know how we go.

Ooh, big technical words but I get your drift. Yes it was an issue and took a lot of nilifing with the drop, and other strategies, to get her to what reliability I have now. For instance, of course she doesn't get a treat for dropping when 15 metres away, but then she gets a recall and a treat.

She knows the drop from stand, sit and moving at heel. She was a bugger to teach it tho (as I said earlier). In her early days she would drop like an anchor if food was involved, but otherwise it was all raised eyebrows, a 'must I?" expression on her face, and a drop with slowness that would rival a glacier. So she's improved heaps since those days

Just to clear up some queries - her recall is pretty good and I've been working on recalls with distraction. e.g. running off to meet another dog and calling her back. She is good at that. Though I imagine not so at a high-tailing cat! That being said, some recent help with Herding Guy and she proved pretty good at the 'stop' command when working sheep. In a sit/stay I can drop her from quite some distance, but like I said she seems a lot more responsive to the hand signal that voice alone. She also drops well at heel (using hand and voice). So is part of the secret to proof more on voice alone?

Yes it's a 'drop on the move" I'm after. Like one poster said, no matter what she is doing, chasing butterflies etc. if I call drop she does. It got confused in with the recall as this was one suggestion a dog trainer gave me - but like I said this seemed to be confusing the dog so I stopped doing it - and thus the request for tips. Making it a fast game sounds good. My other concern is that she is much more attuned to hand signals than voice - so getting her to 'drop on the move' even if she's running the other way and not looking at me.

sas - she can drop from a distance when in a sit/stay/ When in a sit/stay she is very focused on me. Like I said, she responds far more to the hand signal than voice alone. When in a sit/stay the actual distance I am from her does not seem that much of an issue - however, when not using both voice and hand command, she willl always respond better to an alone hand command than an alone voice command However to try and 'drop' her )voice, hand or both) midway thru a recall seems to be confusing. Like I said, she still comes all the way too me and then does the drop. I don't want to play around with this too much as VCA trainingis to recall to a sit. So is there another way? One thing I have tried is to run with her (on leash) and do a drop then - but how to work on distance? And should I work on voice alone more?

By background I had a long trial teaching my dog the drop command - she knew what it meant but was often reluctant to comply. After some concentrated work she is now pretty good, but much more to the hand command than vpice alone - she is a visual kind of dog. I can get her to drop from a distance when in a sit/stay, but what I really want is her to drop when on the run. One trainer suggested I throw in a drop when she is recalling - but this seems to be a bit confusing as she will still 'come' all the way to me and then drop. All tricks and tips gratefully requested.

My dog eats raw meat and cooked vegies for brekkie - and a small scattering of complete kibble in the evenings. She poos twice a day generally. Hope this info helps.

Chai - from their guidelines

Woohoo! The November date is now in my diary

Mrs D, they get us to use voice etc. as a reward when 'at school'. See my earlier post about people who do sneak in treats. I think it has the potential to cause problems.

Moorabbin - they are very traditional. My dog copes fine with no treats 'on the ground' as she knows she gets treated after. I must admit I get miffed at handlers who cheat and use treat on the grounds. By example we were doing an exercise where handlers walked towards each other and then got their dogs to sit/drop/whatever by the side of another handler's dog. and dogs were meant to ignore each other. Bit hard when the other handler is cheating and sneaking a treat to get their dog to drop (or whatever). "Where's mine?" said my dog. And it could have turned nasty, although not a greedy dog for food, she can be a bit hyper over treats. I also train with another school (more companion dog orientated) that allows treats, but I note the training seems to involve (so far as I have seen so far) less close to other dogs training.

What the ....???? :D Well the club is a vca obedience club and vca rules prohibit taking a treat bag into the trial ring - so the rule makes sense. We are perfectly allowed to use treats when training at home.

LOL bikle - I have no idea! Predominently BC x Corgi - but there are other things in the mix. A huge dollop of terrier (JR or Foxy) is also suspected. She's certainly got you pup's curly tail though Re food and training - no expert here but my dog has her main meal in the morning (with an evening light small handful of kibble) and on school days she doesn't get her 'dinner" (i.e. breakfast) at all - just a bone to gnaw when we get home. And also, my school doesn't allow training with treats. However my dog is not a pup (2 and a half now) so I think breeders/trainers who know the breed should answer your question. The pup months are so important.

bikle - your dog looks like a brown and white version of my b&w dog (also a stumpy bum), and yes, getting those hand signals in front of their nose... Re comments on 'focus' - one exercise a trainer gave me might help - kneel in front of the dog with arms outstretched and treats in either hand. When dog looks at you (rather than hand with treats) mark with a 'yes' and promptly give treats. Another thing with a smaller dog that a trainer only recently picked up with me - when walking I tend to flick my heels up quite high (guess I walk strange ), and with smaller dogs this can make them heel 'wide' (which is my dog's tendancy) cos they don't want an accidental kick. And duck poo is yummy isn't it? and possum poo is like little nibblys! ETA - what sort of dog is Doug???

Peachie - it could get down to a breed thing. It was my daughters reading of the "Dog Collection" issue on cavs (so we are not necessarily talking a very authoritive voice here) that it was a good idea to fast them once a week as they are prone to pack on the kilos, that made me think a 'semi-fast' was not going to hurt my dog. She's a good eater but not a glutton, and the new training school I have been attending allows treats - so I just gave it a go and it worked. Like I said, she wasn't fussed. I said she is not overweight, but she is a tad stocky - I think she has some corgi in her. For the next few weeks tho I am back training at my VCA club that does not allow treats - I will see how she goes this first week with no brekkie, no treats during training, but her bone afterwards (and yes, light supper at night). Greys tho are skinny buggers and have very little fat on them - so perhaps not a breed to fast or semi-fast.

In my case peachie, the dog doesn't miss it, and works better at "school" on an empty stomach. Also for comps you don't want your dog doing a dump when meant to be performing - no brekkie reduces the need for pooch to do a poo mid trial. I have read that a weekly fast is also a good idea for dogs prone to putting on the kilos. So no expert here either - but if it doesn't worry my dog, and she works better at school, then why not? I recently got a placing at my dog school fun day competition (for us plebs not up to trialling standard yet) cos the BC who was so much better than all our other dogs (due to the fact that the 2 owners give the poor thing 2 training sessions each training day at different levels), did a poo mid-test. Didn't all us naughty handlers with relcalcitrent dogs hi-five eah other when that happened!

kitkat we did the 'semi' thing again today. No nasties after allowing the bone (which she spent about 2 hours with).

Kitkat - I get the butcher to cut the bone in 4 so she only gets 1/4 of a marrow bone once a week. I know the marrow is rich but figure she's not getting all that much and that as she spends so long gnawing on it that it must be good for her teeth. I've not noticed anything with her stools but will keep an extra eye out tomorrow.

My dog is 2. Thanks for the answers guys. I will now feel NOT guility about skipping a meal for her on Sundays = especially if she gets a bone after dog class.

Last week I went to my new dog training school. The recomend not feeding dog beforehand. My dog has her main meal in the morning (fresh meat and vegies) and just a small handfull of dry food at night. She gets 1/4 of a marrow bone after dog school each week. So I didn't feed her, and as the class start time is quite late didn't get home till near 1pm. Seemed all a bit late in the day to feed her - so just gave her the bone. Then that night gave her the usual handful of dry food. She didn't seemed fussed by this at all. Is it a good thing for a weekly semi fast? btw, she's not overweight or anything.

If racing around doesn't hurt him, how about lure coursing???

*harrumph* One of the top performing obedience trials dogs in my club is a papillion (spelling?). It is bad enough when small dog owners think their dogs don't need training, it is totaly ludicrous that bigger dog owners perpetuate this myth. Next time someone says anything give them a steely glare and say "so my dog is small it should be UNtrained? Do you think that is a good thing?" and start tapping your foot. Also speak to the training committeee (or whoever is in charge on instructors) - the attitude needs to be nipped off.