Sheridan

Won't help what Sheridan? Won't help the health of purebred dogs? Too damn right it won't. Won't help calm things down or change minds already set that it's a huge plot, won't change the minds of the 'You can't do this to me!' brigade. Will it help purebred dogs? Well, if next time a judge pauses before putting up an extreme or next time a breeder pauses before breeding an extreme then it's done the job. But it won't do that.

This vet has been very brave putting this in the public arena. It won't help, of course.

I think they'll be obliged to check for a chip and to keep him for whatever days the law allows for lost dogs.

While acknowledging there are breeders on both sides that have good looking dogs that are able to work, I find the conversation that's now taking place a bit ironic. We're told the standard is what makes a dog able to do the job for which it's breed yet the argument that seems to be made here is that dogs that meet the standard are unable to work and dogs that are able to work are unable to meet the standard.

TessnSean, if it's a closed group how do you expect me to see it? You have made some deeply unpleasant remarks about me in this thread on the basis of me using a bit of hyperbole. I have no idea who you are or why you've become fixated on me in this thread but I have no interest in huffing and puffing back at you. If you want a response that is in your vein, I'm afraid you're out of luck. Best wishes to you.

It is all in the execution. For what it is worth the Interview with the Clumber Spaniel...that woman showed far more grace and dignity than the KC deserved. Your complaint is that we're saying it wrong? Seriously?

TessnSean, I looked for your FB group. Couldn't find it.

Crisovar, by not acting like kids whose lollipops have been taken away. I expect people to act with grace and dignity and there has been precious little of either. Why is it wrong of anyone to point out bad breeding?

I have agreed with TW and now Jo in this thread. Clearly, the apocalypse is upon us. I don't tend towards conspiracy theories so I'm not a great believer in AR having a huge influence. Some yes but I think if there is an influence it's that the public is waking up and saying on a number of fronts, 'That's wrong and you can't do it anymore.' We want the public to be aware of bad breeders so why are we angry that they have woken up to bad breeders among us? I have been talking about this for over six years. I can even pinpoint the date to when I woke up. It was when my pedigree dog got sick from PLN. He died. I bitch a lot about conformation issues in my breed. I want my wheatens to look like wheatens not blonde kerry blues. Yet, conformation isn't the killer in my breed (though shortening the back does nothing for back health). No, the killers in my breed is a kidney disease and an intestinal disease. There is an open register. The dogs with a history of throwing these disease in this country are well known. We have hopes of a genetic marker sooner rather than later but that's not here now. So why oh why are dogs still being bred from in this country whose antecedents have these diseases in the background? There's no reason for it. There are plenty of unrelated wheatens with no history of PLE/PLN in the background in this country so why breed from dogs whose pedigrees are chock full of it? Answer: 'It would be throwing the baby out with the bath water.' Answer: 'We're outcrossing.' Well, breeders, outcrossing didn't help the beagle-wheaten outcrosses, did it. I said it over six years ago and I'll repeat it. The 'You can't tell me what to do' brigade as evidenced by the response to the Crufts DQs, will look to their breeding programs and do something in the positive when a dog they have bred dies or is found to have some sort of major conformation issue and they get sued by a grieving and angry pet owner with a lot of money. And then when self-regulation fails, legal regulation will step in.

It's a little disturbing that people concerned about the health and function of pedigree dogs are being labelled animal rights nutters.

Try lemon juice and/or vinegar as a rinse.

Of course people will be able to hide. All they have to do is not advertise in the paper or on the Net. Or are these inspectors going to police shopping centres and suburban shops and vet surgeries?

Perhaps you ought to read the DOL rule about personal attacks.

Tale of woe? Really? Do you only reserve belittlement and sarcasm for people you don't agree with or is that you don't accurately understand the meaning of the word woe? But then you are prone to exaggeration. I have never seen a dog with its' eyes sagging around its' chin even in a cartoon, let alone Crufts. Either way, look up Exhibitors Choice on FB. There are over 5000 members and climbing. Exhibitors Choice aka Jemima Harrison fodder. ?What function. Why don't you email them and ask them? You're the one in a panic that the sky is falling. Me, I don't think it is. What function, indeed. What, because breeders are being told not to breed extremes? No one is being lynched here. Who is going to come out the worse in this scenario? The Kennel Club who finally got it into their heads that doing something about, for example, dogs that cannot freely whelp would be a good thing? Or is it the breeders who say 'You can't tell me what to do!'

The worry for me isn't what I say to my dogs; it's that I occasionally speak to people how I speak to my dogs. People just don't seem to appreciate being told to 'shifty bum' for some reason.

This is a dog of beauty.

If only it was as simple as looking at a DQ'd dog and agreeing it is not fit for function. Do your visual cues of the DQ'd Bulldog and Clumber indicate they are not fit for function? I don't know the breeds but I assumed that the judges did. Yes so you assume the judges knew the breeds - the judges thought the bulldog looked fit for function. A vet disagreed and then DQ'd the bulldog. You suggest it is so obvious when a dog is not fit for function, that if people can't look at a dog and identify that a dog is not fit, "then perhaps withdrawing from showing and breeding is the best thing for the UK fancy." When you look at the DQ bulldog, do you see a dog that is not fit for function? Lilli, I'm not going to get into a semantic argument with you. I've done it before and all that happens is that I've wasted a shitload of time that I won't get back. I really don't care what you think, say or do, so give it up.

If only it was as simple as looking at a DQ'd dog and agreeing it is not fit for function. Do your visual cues of the DQ'd Bulldog and Clumber indicate they are not fit for function? I don't know the breeds but I assumed that the judges did.

I also think that testing for breed function assumes that many breeds just naturally do a job. Working dogs are trained to do their job. It's also mistaken to think that earthdog is the testing function for terriers. Many terrier breeds were multi-function dogs. They didn't just go to ground, they did herding, were guard dogs, and were spit dogs at night. I've always maintained that my breeds should be shown running around a farmyard covered in mud instead of in a ring but how many of the fancy would be willing to train their dogs to do the job for which they were bred before they got in a show ring? I suspect very few.

Could be the Napisan. Bleach smells like dog wee.

Why do people always think that an adult dog won't hurt a puppy?

Is your tale of woe anedotal or do you have a link we can refer to for the claim that the ripple effect is huge? For honestly, if people can't look at a dog and say, that dog is not fit for function because its eyes are sagging around its chin, then perhaps withdrawing from showing and breeding is the best thing for the UK fancy. Are these the people who will continue to breed dogs that are not fit for function?

I was having a bit of a think about it, yes. Not sure I'd want share in a public space, though.

excellent point. AND a few reminders that they do regular inspections themselves whenever a complaint is made and have for decades.... I dont see that has ever been mentioned for the public to be aware of either. these are points that need to be out there... not kept inhouse. so that only registered breeders know. public perception is being manipulated by the anti lobbyist and so far our leaders have not been very vocal in reminding them and the press what they REALLY do do. asal, this last sentence makes no sense whatsoever. Please explain.

How brave are people feeling in relation to this?