Sheridan

Unless you grow and then kill your own meat and grow your own veggies (if you feed them veggies), you don't actually know what they're ingesting. We get our meat from a local supplier and I know exactly what my dogs are ingesting That's one of the advantages of buying from someone who isn't just selling the food but also producing it- we can find out every product or chemical that goes into the sheep/cows/chickens we buy just by asking (the meat itself is entirely free of any additives) and we even know where the animals are living prior to slaughter (as well as where they're slaughtered). The meat is inspected by the DPIW and all things considered, probably safer and better quality than almost any meat you'd be able to get for human consumption. Suggesting that it's impossible to know what you're putting into your dogs unless you raise and slaughter it yourself is a lot of a stretch - besides also implying that perhaps many primary producers are putting things into meat that we would object to if we knew about them. That kind of paranoia isn't generally warranted- buy your meat from a decent local producer and you won't ever find your steak tainted with melamine or tinfoil hats or whatever. Bringing the topic up in a thread about the proposed use of plastics in kibble just makes no sense- the products used in the raising of livestock are thoroughly tested, have witholding periods where necessary and are used to keep animals healthy (rather than products shelf-stable for ungodly periods of time). A somewhat angry and over the top response. Besides, the use of antibiotics in food production animals and HGPs in cattle are well documented. Are you a denialist that they're used? Or are you just happy to have your dog filled up with them? See, two can play at this game and imply tin foil hattedness. Certainly, if you live next door to a farmer, etc. ABs are mostly used for prophylactic purposes in intensive farming situations but again, they're subject to a withholding period and their use in smaller holdings (where cattle aren't kept in confined quarters) is usually limited to individual treatments for specific conditions (as prophylactic use in those situations would simply be a waste of money- the potenital sources for infection are much fewer). Withholding periods on based on the amount of time it takes for AB residue in muscle tissue and blood to dissipate so that at slaughter, levels are negligible. Use of ABs is also controlled and treated cattle must be recorded (for the purposes of testing before slaughter, etc) Regarding HGPs, again, their use is highly regulated and in some states (such as Tasmania), their use is banned entirely in cattle. So no, I'm not a denialist, I'm just aware of my local laws regarding livestock production My initial response wasn't angry, by the way- perhaps your tinfoil hat is on the fritz? Typo You came across as pretty darned angry, totally offended in fact, given you felt you had to accuse me of being a conspiracy theorist just because I said that people don't know what's in food unless they produce it. That emphasis on exactly . It's nice you trust your farmer but you getting hysterical over one minor comment just makes me think you're just having an unnecessary tanty. Whatever.

No the rest of its life having to live with what its already got plus cushings. Havent you ever heard the saying ......you wouldn't let it happen to a dog. I love mine to much to let them suffer. The dog has cataracts and is a little deaf with an unknown history. That's it. Precisely, Everythings Shiny. What an ugly little world you must live in, oakway.

I agree, Sheridan. I'd like more info, but would also like the source. My faith in ABS statistics in a number of areas has been shot in the last few years. How so?

Unless you grow and then kill your own meat and grow your own veggies (if you feed them veggies), you don't actually know what they're ingesting. We get our meat from a local supplier and I know exactly what my dogs are ingesting That's one of the advantages of buying from someone who isn't just selling the food but also producing it- we can find out every product or chemical that goes into the sheep/cows/chickens we buy just by asking (the meat itself is entirely free of any additives) and we even know where the animals are living prior to slaughter (as well as where they're slaughtered). The meat is inspected by the DPIW and all things considered, probably safer and better quality than almost any meat you'd be able to get for human consumption. Suggesting that it's impossible to know what you're putting into your dogs unless you raise and slaughter it yourself is a lot of a stretch - besides also implying that perhaps many primary producers are putting things into meat that we would object to if we knew about them. That kind of paranoia isn't generally warranted- buy your meat from a decent local producer and you won't ever find your steak tainted with melamine or tinfoil hats or whatever. Bringing the topic up in a thread about the proposed use of plastics in kibble just makes no sense- the products used in the raising of livestock are thoroughly tested, have witholding periods where necessary and are used to keep animals healthy (rather than products shelf-stable for ungodly periods of time). A somewhat angry and over the top response. Besides, the use of antibiotics in food production animals and HGPs in cattle are well documented. Are you a denialist that they're used? Or are you just happy to have your dog filled up with them? See, two can play at this game and imply tin foil hattedness. Certainly, if you live next door to a farmer, etc.

I have an eat it or lose it policy in my house, which Miss Mini had forgotten until the other night. Her food bowl suddenly disappeared from view after she decided she didn't want her dinner right away and she was all, 'Oh ... but ...'

Put the dog through all what? An ultrasound? Tablets?

Actually, I'm more interested in the source for those stats. Is it the ABS? Probably not because the ABS hasn't started collecting online retails stats yet. Is it Roy Morgan Single Source? Is it the PIAA? What was the sample size of stores and consumers?

My Grumpy is 16 and I am treating him, though he had an ultrasound before the Cushing's test (we originally thought it was a liver problem). He was diagnosed with Cushing's earlier this year. Given how otherwise lively he is, there is no way I couldn't treat him. He is currently standing right in front of me saying, 'Where's my breakfast?!' I do think the Cushing's "sag" is actually because of a disk problem but he's seeing a physio every few weeks and she is quite happy with his progress. The Cushing's symptoms are under control and aside from the "sag" and the Cushing's twitch (side effect of the trilostane) you'd not think there was anything wrong with him - aside from his failing eyesight and his dementia, that is. Have the ultrasound because otherwise, you'll always wonder. That said, Grumpy's vet did not want to him him through anything more than the ultrasound. In terms of medication, the treatment is the same (Trilostane) and at his age it didn't matter to me which type of Cushings he has. An ultrasound isn't too bad as far as procedures go. Grumpy did have to be sedated, though, and it knocked him about a bit.

Unless you grow and then kill your own meat and grow your own veggies (if you feed them veggies), you don't actually know what they're ingesting.

HW, I suspect some people haven't actually read (or perhaps haven't understood) your original post.

We most certainly do not need another forum for Gumtree ads. And if we did, why only Gumtree? What about Trading Post ads and all those Facebook pages?

And maybe this forum has evolved beyond just purebreed discussion? As in, the Rescue sub-forum. And maybe people in Rescue are already so time-consumed they don't have a chance to look through ALL the Gumtree ads to find the ones who might actually be in danger. I don't think it's unfair, for a Purebreed Forum that provides a Rescue sub-forum, to consider the fact that there are others who can bring attention to some dogs in urgent need. And who will decide what dogs on Gumtree are in 'urgent need'? How about someone suggest it to Troy instead of arguing about it here. It won't happen unless he says so.

OK then. I'll consider myself told. So there. :p

Unless you're paying, which some people do, you are not 'clientele'. More areas of dog ownership can mean many things, indeed, however, constant threads about this ad or that ad or this petshop or that petshop are just wearying.

Thanks for the info. I'm really hoping it is the back problem after reading up on other possible scenarios. Will be back at the vets tomorrow as he seems to be getting worse after initially showing signs of improvement. Yes, I was in the Navy, used Jack Tar as a forum name years ago and it stuck as a nickname in some circles. Tried my own name on this site but was already taken. I have to ask: were you jolly?

Puts up hand. Can we also cease with the pet shop ones?

Don't take him to a chiro.

Get them to check for an autoimmune disease.

Don't think he was that specific ... just categories like trainability/independence/affectionate etc I read it on DOL all the time, the people who love their smoochy velcro dogs who follow them to the loo and the people who hate that sort of clinginess :laugh: I'm so used to dealing with my biddable, crazily motivated and eager to please Kelpies that I don't think that I would know how to handle a dog that would give me the finger - which is why even though I'd love a shiba inu, I don't think that I can ever own one :laugh: kavik - how exciting about the search for a new dog. Alas, we won't be fostering again until next year otherwise you could have had an array of young Kelpies to scrutinise :laugh: You'd get used to that pretty quickly with the Grumpy man ...

Did any of the vets check his back or his legs? Has he had an x-ray or an ultrasound?

I agree with you - I'd never own a dingo - too much work! But then again, someone once asked me why I own Kelpies when there are lots of other much nicer/easier to manage breeds around :laugh: It's like that Stanley Cohen book I guess - the breed you pick says a lot about the person you are. Some people sneer at me because my dogs are biddable/eager to please/have no shame - they want the aloof, elegant, independent dogs with dignity :laugh: Others want velcro dogs, others hate that! Hate to think what having Grumpy and Mini says about me ... Grumpy is well ... grumpy, and Mini is an airhead. Hmmmm ... ;)

Useful for the army, for instance, I would have thought.

Brookestar, I don't wish to repeat your entire post but I have a question: can you provide your sources to the RSPCA and LDH rehoming the vast majority of surrenders? I wasn't aware that LDH, in particular, published numbers of surrenders as opposed to the numbers of dogs received at the pound.

In the Insight program, the fellow in the article above who "claims" to have devised the temp test (is there a suspicion that he didn't given the use of the word claim?) described some of the fail behaviours led me to believe that it would be very hard for any terrier to pass.

Well, Sue, sorry for trying to help.Geez ...