Sheridan

no dipstick. (my brothers favourite term for those he finds frustrating) Nancy was selling to them long before she became ill and needed me to drive her. I didn't know they existed until I drove through their gate and was introduced that first day I took her Asal, you've said previously you sold to McDougall. There was no Nancy in your previous story and again, and with your self-justification below, you are missing the point. I did not name nancy previously as she was alive and I had no wish to set the hounds on her, I note the baying is still noticable isnt it. so which is the point I'm missing? Feel free to read my previous posts.

I actually waited outside Aldi yesterday for an owner to come out after he tied his Labrador up.

no dipstick. (my brothers favourite term for those he finds frustrating) Nancy was selling to them long before she became ill and needed me to drive her. I didn't know they existed until I drove through their gate and was introduced that first day I took her Asal, you've said previously you sold to McDougall. There was no Nancy in your previous story and again, and with your self-justification below, you are missing the point.

Caretakership? #srsly

Is that a roundabout way of saying you were a broker who sold puppies to a broker who sold puppies to a pet shop in Hawaii? So, these dogs were the result of double brokerage? I realise you don't think there's anything wrong with selling to this pet shop but you miss the point. You're part of the image problem. ANKC breeders are supposed to be better than the puppyfarmers and for all your tale of a sweet old lady, there were puppies that ended up in pet shops. And that's outside of the clear breach of the Code of Ethics.

Jelly, it's lovely to see you back on the forum. I agree that it does tend to be word of mouth with some breeds and that its very hard to get breeders to respond. There's no magic formula. Some breeders want lots of info, others don't. Let us know what breed you're keen on.

What problems have sighthound breeders created? Right now its damn wise to be defensive. Their dogs are in the cross hairs . everything is in the crosshairs, all your left to argue is in which order are they lined up for target. had a dream last night, quite odd but maybe time will see it to be true, regardless of the order all domesticated species are marked for elimination, people are just a bit slow to realise that, the name today should be Royal Society for the Elimination of Domesticated Breeds. or RSEDB or? Perhaps, Royal Society for the Elimination of Domesticated Species may be more appropriate, does RSEDS have a better, more realistic ring to it? Of course, breeders, such as those who sold litters to McDougall for that pet shop in Hawaii wouldn't have had anything to do with the bad PR problem. many breeders sold to the company who was exporting to McDougal the Hawaii Pet shop, I saw many of the litters sold and they were stunning puppies, one of the conditions was they had to be on Main Register and I was so tempted to buy a ticket and fly there to buy some of the puppies I saw. Many were from breeders who would never sell on main register in Australia. scotched the idea when I found how complicated it would be to reimport but it was tempting to daydream, international pedigrees denied to the rest of australia. Perhaps your memory is failing you, asal, because you've previously said you sold to McDougal.

Health results on every breed. What does that mean exactly. If the dog or any of its ancestors have had health tests or scores done that is recorded on the pedigree which every person who owns a dog for at least 4 generations can see by simply looking at the pedigree. .If any of the dogs in the family tree turn up with any illness or problem that is recorded, in some breeds what each ancestor did for work or activity is recorded, all qualifications are recorded not just those which are affiliated with the ANKC /FCI So if grandad had crook hips, or grandma needed a Csection, if cousins had allergies etc its all there. Puppy buyers can see that these things are important for their breeder when selecting breeding dogs and breeders can see things they might need to consider when choosing a mate. Its not reliant on someone's memory or honesty in relaying information pertinent to pedigree profiling. These things are then tracked so we know if any particular pattern is showing for any breed or lines way before you would normally know so breeders can be advised if new tests are required or if tests being done are wasting their money etc. But you've said you don't have any wheaten breeders. Even if you did I can't imagine that breeders who aren't members would consent to their dogs details being handed over to a private business. Puppy buyers are happy to hand over their dog's health issues and accomplishments. We knew from day one that we couldn't rely on breeders for such info alone and just because we don't have breeders of any particular breed doesn't mean we are not collecting data and recording it as it comes to us. If you want to be picky some breeds we have lots of info on others not much yet but as it arrives its added in so it can be used to help people breed great dogs. Do you think OFA, Pennhip Orivet etc are not private companies? I can clearly see that OFA et al are private companies.

Only available to subscribers, Mita.

Health results on every breed. What does that mean exactly. If the dog or any of its ancestors have had health tests or scores done that is recorded on the pedigree which every person who owns a dog for at least 4 generations can see by simply looking at the pedigree. .If any of the dogs in the family tree turn up with any illness or problem that is recorded, in some breeds what each ancestor did for work or activity is recorded, all qualifications are recorded not just those which are affiliated with the ANKC /FCI So if grandad had crook hips, or grandma needed a Csection, if cousins had allergies etc its all there. Puppy buyers can see that these things are important for their breeder when selecting breeding dogs and breeders can see things they might need to consider when choosing a mate. Its not reliant on someone's memory or honesty in relaying information pertinent to pedigree profiling. These things are then tracked so we know if any particular pattern is showing for any breed or lines way before you would normally know so breeders can be advised if new tests are required or if tests being done are wasting their money etc. But you've said you don't have any wheaten breeders. Even if you did I can't imagine that breeders who aren't members would consent to their dogs details being handed over to a private business.

I've been saying this for years and it's only in the last year that a few people have started to agree with me. Quite a lot of prominent DOLers lambasted me for saying so because I'd never bred a litter and didn't show dogs. I didn't know what I was talking about. Because doing something and being proactive needs more than trying to defend why we breed them or how registered breeders are beyond being accused of cruelty. Its going to take identifying the selection errors and being seen to be doing something and demonstrating how what they are doing is making progress. The greyhound people cannot see how what they do is seen by others as being so cruel they are being shut down and ANKC breeders are no different and will still be saying we dont get it when it comes. I'll point out, gently, that you were one of those DOLers.

Health results on every breed. What does that mean exactly.

What problems have sighthound breeders created? Right now its damn wise to be defensive. Their dogs are in the cross hairs of the RSPCA. I didnt say all breeders of all breeds. We all know the problem brreeds and we all need to acknowledge the problems. Nothing can be fixed is the problems are not acknowledged. Eta the public see defensiveness as if there is something being hidden from them . there is a high degree of distrust that they have You said 'breeders' without any qualification of what you meant. If you meant breeders doing the wrong thing or not taking into account health issues then you should have said so. Instead by simply writing 'breeders' you paint everyone with the same brush. I took it that way, HW took it that way and anyone reading without background would take it that way.

That too. Unless you keep telling them different. You couldn't have just said so? I have. In many different ways. If you can't be bothered to understand the science for yourself, I guess it can't touch you. Only 'A.R' can. So 'round and 'round we go. Nah, Its covered. I''m not doing this again. I'm fine with the science. It's someone who claims they're 'helping' by drivelling on about my reality and their reality that I have an issue with. If you wrote, 'Here are practical strategies that will help you and here's a nice dot point list,' I'd not have an issue.

If you can't be bothered to explain your point in language people understand then we have a problem don't we. It isn't the science that's the problem but your inability or unwillingness to explain it without the gibberish. Most concepts can be explained in lay men's terms. How is this different? AR don't give a toss about the science. They care about the outcome that the science may be supporting. They care about their anti-dog agenda. They don't care if science supports it or not. They only care if they get their way.

Heres how I see it then. In laymans terms. You are staking every thing on a reality that exists only in the K.Cs. You won't recognize any other possible reality. Its got to be Pedgirees all the way. You will risk every thing, for every one on your belief the pedigree system alone has a future. Pedigree dogs, Or no dogs. If your faith is so great you better pray. I'll be looking for a more favorable response to DOGS else where. Theres no time for this. Looks like this is the best response I can hope for here ("Academic weasel words") I tried. Dog help you. Because you write that way, which isn't remotely helpful to anyone who wants to understand. And besides, blathering about 'reality' aside, what help are you practically providing?

What problems have sighthound breeders created? Right now its damn wise to be defensive. Their dogs are in the cross hairs . everything is in the crosshairs, all your left to argue is in which order are they lined up for target. had a dream last night, quite odd but maybe time will see it to be true, regardless of the order all domesticated species are marked for elimination, people are just a bit slow to realise that, the name today should be Royal Society for the Elimination of Domesticated Breeds. or RSEDB or? Perhaps, Royal Society for the Elimination of Domesticated Species may be more appropriate, does RSEDS have a better, more realistic ring to it? Of course, breeders, such as those who sold litters to McDougall for that pet shop in Hawaii wouldn't have had anything to do with the bad PR problem.

Precisely the sort of post I was referring to above.

Some aren't converted. You can see it in posts here.

I've been saying this for years and it's only in the last year that a few people have started to agree with me. Quite a lot of prominent DOLers lambasted me for saying so because I'd never bred a litter and didn't show dogs. I didn't know what I was talking about.

OT, but I hardly think watching a 16 week old Peke pup run a little in Winter is proof it has no problems. The sheep, for instance, isn't puffing at all from that little run. The Peke is running by bunny hopping from hind legs to front, signs that it's back is too long for its leg length. Stenotic nares and, in particular, elongated soft palate, are definitely progressive and likely to be worse in older dogs than in pups. Show me an adult Peke working in hot weather without curling its tongue out to clear its airway, and I'll be more convinced. The Crufts winner needed ice bricks after its little step out. I'll point out (again) that the 'job' of the peke was sitting in someone's lap. It doesn't run around hills and herd sheep or catch vermin for a living. That is not its job. I have read its movement may have been deliberately bred in to stop it running off. If I was wearing a cost like that - a breed trait - and going around under those lights if probably need an ice pack, too, and so would you. I wish people would stop assuming every dog is supposed to be whizzing around a ring like a hyper springer spaniel because they're not.

....or watch and listen to Animal Australia spokesman Glenys Oogjey - a total zealot. An extremely dangerous person. Dogs, showing, breeding, dog sports, tracking, agility etc will all be banned. Peta told us that 30 odd years ago. We took no notice. It will not matter what dog breeders do, or how healthy the dogs are, they will still disappear, as compliant and kind greyhound owners will also lose their dogs. Public has been told purebred dogs, particularly brachy breeds, are suffering. Some are. However, differentiating one suffering from one not suffering to a 3rd party is impossible. So they will all go. Here is one of the many brachy dogs who has no problem at all breathing Riding and breeding horses, including hacking, ode and dressage will probably disappear before racing. But they will all go too. Try getting the ANKC to believe that.

Who promotes the breed specific traits as so predictable? You don't think purebred dogs have breed specific traits that makes them predictable?

That too. Unless you keep telling them different. You couldn't have just said so?

Is Moosmum just trying to say all dogs have value to someone no matter their origin?