Sheridan

Do we know what dogs have entered for what breed?

Hi there, lunch was provided by the Petcare Information and Advisory Service (PIAS), who often provide such support for the AWSC's activities about companion animals. The rest of the costs were covered by the Animal Welfare Science Centre who regularly host these kinds of seminars (as you can see here: http://www.animalwelfare.net.au/new/new.html) As previously mentioned, there was no hidden agenda here, and there were no deliberate exclusions. If anyone wishes to register their interest to present at a future AWSC seminar, they are very welcome to and can do so by contacting the AWSC's executive officer Jeremy Skuse at [email protected]. Cheers Given how long this thread is now, can you just remind again us why a puppyfarmer was allowed to use your forum as a platform?

Most of my information about the seminar has come from your posts. Make of that what you will. Given some of your posts about this seminar and the utter nonsense you've posted about joining up with puppyfarmers because it's all about the dogs only makes me wonder about what your beef is. If it's all about the dogs, you don't join up with those causing problems. You avoid them. I don't know about hidden agendas but I think if striving for credibility on animal welfare issues, you don't invite someone without it.

But isn't she a vet herself? Why would she need the services of another vet? Or do I have her confused with someone else?

Ditto, Kirty.

How so? No dog should ever be left unsupervised for 3 days. If an owner is away and the dog is being looked after by someone, then presumably the dog is being fed/watered and checked on at least once a day. This would give the carer ample opportunity to notice the dog missing and get in touch with council within 3 working days. You're presuming that someone is looking after the dog instead of dumping it in the cages outside the pound. I was an involuntary carer. Perhaps I should have dumped the dog and gone to Sydney like I was supposed to.

Thank you, Andrew. I asked if the hotline number was listed at the front of the pound. Are you able to advise if it is? Would you take a look at the ACT Government's website for Domestic Animal Services? People are able to upload details of their lost dogs, report found dogs, and all impounded dogs are listed on the website as well with a photo. This is an excellent system which allows people to check online for their animals. Could Ipswich have something like this? DAS also works closely with local rescue groups and they have a high rate of rehoming. Are there rescue groups outside of the RSPCA and AWL who could help with rehoming? A good example of council working with a no kill shelter is SADS in Victoria, which has a foster care scheme. Perhaps you could look to there for ideas. I am from Victoria and the impound period is eight days there, which is a much more generous time to allow people to find their lost animals. Could Ipswich consider stretching out the three days to a longer period? I once looked after a dog for three days (pound was closed) because there was no response from the owner. If someone is away then a three day period would have failed them. I agree that people should have their animals microchipped and their fences secure but a more generous period would help. It seems that the system failed this puppy and it's good you're looking into it.

How many breeding dogs does Kate Schoeffel have in her commercial breeding establishment, I wonder. Little doubt that she prefers to have a cute and cuddly title like 'pet puppy breeder' but a puppyfarmer is a puppyfarmer no matter how they dress themselves.

A better model would be that puppyfarmers like her would be shut down for good. That would improve dog welfare no end.

Yes, but she shouldn't worry given some breeders seem to smash the code of conduct into little pieces without anything happening to them. If breeding dogs without showing them is considered to be a heinous crime and exporting to a pet shop in Hawaii is not then the system is truly broken.

She wasn't there to "illustrate purpose for breeding", she was there to present a model for better practices in commercial dog breeding. The main thrust of the entire day was, afterall, about dog welfare. Then perhaps they shouldn't have chosen a puppyfarmer if they wanted to promote dog welfare. It hardly makes for credibility.

Yes, the bean mix is very important. I also found with the Grumpy Man, I had to put another bed on top of it just for him. Princess Precious prefers my side of the couch but she's very insistent on using the bean bag to eat her after dinner treat.

Sheriden my point was about dialogue needing to be opened up, and while I threw in "pet shops" the main thrust is that many posters in this thread have been dismissive and even antagonistic of the science researchers, yet who would you need to speak to about your protein losing disease...? Certainly not puppyfarmers or pet shops. How hilarious that people would go to someone like Kate Schoeffel. If I wanted to talk to anyone about protein losing diseases, I would talk to Dr Littman or Dr Vaden. They are the experts in the diseases, after all, which I'm surprised you didn't know since you took the time to read the website. Their names are on practically every page as the experts that vets have to contact for medical and dietary advice. If you're going to pull out examples to show people up I'd suggest you do a little research before you make a fool of yourself, eh?

I bought the dogs their own bean bags.

No-one said that. They repeatedly said that most breeders do a very good job. However there was one comment about breeders who breed only for wins in the showring and have taken their eye off the ball (or even don't care) as to how good their dogs are as 'pets'. The jist was (and correct me if I'm wrong those who took notes), if you are that sort of breeder then don't sell to pet homes and cull. So the recommendation was to kill puppies? Hmmmm ... BTW, I'm still waiting for an explanation as to how getting into bed with puppyfarmers is supposed to cure protein losing diseases in wheatens. Have you not responded because you simply have no justification for posting such nonsense? I can only assume so.

Do they have the hotline number on the outside of their shelters? If not, I guess their caring doesn't extend that much.

One of the presenters (Paul I think it was) stated that research findings found that HD was in fact reduced in cross-breed dogs even if both parent dogs were breeds prone to it. Did he mention any other issues or doesn't he know about anything else?

Indeed, crossbreeding helps not a whit with some diseases.

Yes, we can. No you can't. From your own sig The information on the website has nothing to do with puppyfarming. Indeed, many a wheaten owner in America has been devastated by the death of their wheaten from PLE or PLN because they bought their dog through a place or person supplied by a puppyfarm. Do you think that puppyfarmers test for PLE/PLN? Do please explain to me how joining ranks with puppyfarmers will cure kidney and intestinal diseases in wheatens. There are a number of research programs, none of which has anything to do with puppyfarmers, and everything to do with the lead taken by registered breeders from all over the world. The open register of affected wheatens is run via the American wheaten club not by puppyfarmers. The genetic research fund is not funded by puppyfarmers, though no doubt they have the money to fund a geneticist's research; why do you think the puppyfarmers don't do that? Every single research fund there is about wheaten health has no connection with puppyfarmers. I'm failing to see your point of citing my website so do please explain it.

I don't take notice of puppyfarmers, no. I'm surprised you would. Yes, we can.

But the fact that this is done under the name of "research" implies (to me, at least) that we can (or should be able to) use that information for ....... something. But unless outside factors that influence how many times chickens peck are taken into account, isn't the fact that they peck 100 times or 10 times fairly useless, save that it scientifically proves that chickens peck? I'm still trying to work out how chicken pecks are analogous to dogs being amicable. Given that my breed is supposed to have a sense of humour: I would have to ask how exactly the amicability test would measure a sense of humour. If I tell my dog a joke and he fails to chuckle, did he simply not find my joke funny or is it a failure of his laugh button?

Funny, you say like that it's a fact rather than your opinion. You can back it up with...? Huski - I am reporting on what I understood from what was said at the seminar today. Please dont confuse these statements with my own opinion. Kate was talking about her "pet breeder" code of ethics and in the context of what she said the 6 points of the code were, plus what was being said about behaviours, these are my own interpretations (but only as they would apply to signatories of Kate's code of ethics). Hilarious that a puppyfarmer has a code of ethics.

I somehow doubt there's any valid research that shows crossbreeders select for temperament.

Which is the code of ethics suggested by Kate. While she was probably the most controversial speaker of the day, one of her main points is that breeders should have a lifetime responsibility of the dogs they breed and ensure the owner is educated about the breed (or cross). In the question time at the end, when queried about pet shops selling pups, she went on to say that as pet shops where the ones making the profit, then the pet shops should take on the 'responsibility' of this lifetime guarantee. Good grief. Is she really that ignorant?

Varies from breed to breed but basically you don't want a dog that is fearful or bites people (or other dogs) or is generally a pain in the arse (this is my VERY loose interpretation, PLS wait for the full video). The point was made that dogs need to be flexible to cope with modern living - and many dogs DO do this very well. However how well a dog copes and adjusts is really not apparent until the dog is an adult. Basically they were saying it is as important to select for temperment than it is for looks. They suggested that breed associations should get together and list what traits they think desirable for that breed and select for those as well as looks. They said that, genetically, selecting for a single conformation aspect can lead to unthoughtof consequences on other things (which can be problems) appearing in the breed. They said if you are breeding PURELY for show, you should not be in the business of selling pets. They said breeding for extremes in a breed causes problems. Basically they were saying that breeders should look to how the dogs behave as well as how they look when selecting parent dogs. Obviously, none of them have read the breed standards.