Sheridan

Yep that is it and I already do all of the things mentioned with the expection of EBV as you need the whole community and testing and reporting to be able todo that. I do not my own limed data collection but do not get an EBV. I also donot provide life time insurance, but I do provide lifetime return and refund for any reason. One other area I have concern over is the COI/Inbreding. I currently keep my COI below 0.5% in 6 generations, that is very low (that means good). However from what I have ben told, most breeds will get the breeding directive to lower the COI with each breeding. Once you get down to numbers like 0.5% in 6 generations it is very very difficult to reduce that number any further and you would have to select for only that one trait, this I disagree with. I think there should be a lowest acceptable % and once reaching that you do not need to keep lowering the COI each generation until you hit 0%. That would be very difficult with some breeds given the low worldwide population and the even lower choice of breeding stock in Australia. Well that is where importing or using other breeds come in. If you accept that lowering and keeping the COI low is important then you have to find ways to do it. Even in breeds with larger populations there is still need to keep bringing in new dogs/genetic and to keep reducing and preventing higher COIs. The more dogs you have to select from in the breeding population the easier it is to control (or maybe contain might be a better word) disease. For example the kelpies should open their stud book to the huge population of WKC dogs. Not my breed mind so please don't argue with me about it, I am just using that as an example we can all see. And how much change from $10,000 is there from importating a dog? If people could import more dogs, no doubt they would (I have no intention of arguing with you about your breed of dog as I don't know what breed you have ... )

Are you Sheridan's neighbour? (and yes, I'm being deliberately obtuse) Ruger, absolutely no offence intended here but you have taken Sheridan's very simple appeal for help in how to approach a situation, very personally. Weird, no?

Yep that is it and I already do all of the things mentioned with the expection of EBV as you need the whole community and testing and reporting to be able todo that. I do not my own limed data collection but do not get an EBV. I also donot provide life time insurance, but I do provide lifetime return and refund for any reason. One other area I have concern over is the COI/Inbreding. I currently keep my COI below 0.5% in 6 generations, that is very low (that means good). However from what I have ben told, most breeds will get the breeding directive to lower the COI with each breeding. Once you get down to numbers like 0.5% in 6 generations it is very very difficult to reduce that number any further and you would have to select for only that one trait, this I disagree with. I think there should be a lowest acceptable % and once reaching that you do not need to keep lowering the COI each generation until you hit 0%. That would be very difficult with some breeds given the low worldwide population and the even lower choice of breeding stock in Australia.

Yes, his nickname is Grumpy for a reason ... Yes, that was a very helpful post, as have the majority of others.

Yes, indeed. I took on Grumpy at 10 and a half years knowing that we were certain to be visiting the vet for age-related health issues (of course, I didn't quite expect that it would be a military-style operation to get him there!). Given that dogs are considered 'property' in law, what liability does that entail on the part of the 'manufacturer'? After all, a washing machine doesn't come with a lifetime warranty and if you want anything beyond a year or two, you have to pay for an extended warranty.

I hope you don't mind me removing the unreadable font and colour? I think you need to give me credit for knowing my own dog. You, after all, don't know him at all. As for the rest, I think you need to read a previous post of mine where I said 'Good suggestions.'

Indeed, I have learned not to go on holidays. I have staycations instead.

I recall reading one post a little while back where the breeder gave a month's worth of pet insurance to each puppy buyer. That was an interesting idea. A lifetime's liability (and maybe I'm reading Shortstep wrong here) seems inherently flawed given that so many issues are late onset or have unknown causes.

Corrie, I'd certainly be interested in learning Ruger's reasoning for introducing an elderly dog with dementia and poor eyesight to children. I certainly don't understand the suggestion.

I know a breeder who got a couple of pups in a litter, which was great but they didn't recoup the cost of the approximate $8000+ that was spent on health testing hips, eyes, and the blood and urine screening and that was before any of the veterinary costs involved in actually having the pups. Ask yourself, what would you prefer? A breeder who is careful and does all those things or a BYB who does none of them? It's a matter of risk management and to me there is a greater risk in buying a dog from the BYB who doesn't do those things than the ethical breeder who does.

Oh for goodness sake. How to wreck a thread - just throw genocide into the discussion. FFS Someone had to Godwin at some stage.

Shortstep, can you tell me what you mean by lifetime liability?

Look I totally understand but I'm trying to look at this from the perspective of your everyday chap who just wants to buy a dog. All of that technical stuff, personality conflicts, dog world politics just goes whoosh. We just want a puppy and when we get a great puppy and a super cool breeder, we talk about it. We puppy owners promote you breeders. If you talk ad nauseum about all the other stuff, we glaze over. I know that's pretty abrupt and I dont mean to be rude, but you guys need to use us (the puppy buyers) to be ambassadors for purebreeds, and the only way to do that is to be really lovely mentors - which I know you all are because my breeders have been super nice people that make me proud to be part of the purebreed world, but so often you hear the same stuff about breeders being snobs. We've all seen it. someone rocks up to a show because we all say - go to a show before you buy a dog - and they walk away dumbfounded because someone told them off for calling a 'girl' rather than a 'bitch'. (yes I actually watched that happening. It was pretty bloody disgraceful and the person involved went and bought a mongrel from a puppy farm as a result) Raz, as you know, I've been saying for some time that I've seen show people be rude to enquirers at shows and have been screamed at for saying so. It's not just my experience. I have seen a breeder run down other breeders to enquirers because of stupid bloody breed politics. I've heard other breeders run down other breeders dogs because of this, that and the other. Happy puppy buyers are the best ambassadors, I agree, because we're often not bound up in those things. Well, Steve, what do you want us to do? I like this. Seems so much better than the pet expos.

Some good suggestions, folks. Thanks. One of the reasons that I forgot to mention last night is that in terms of barking (Grumpy only barks when he wants to tell me something but Mini is a pocket rocket when she gets going and bear in mind that school hols are coming up) because the lady next door does night shift. Obviously, her welfare is very important as well.

Yes, I would love to do this. Unfortunately, a couple of hundred dollars would take me weeks and weeks to save. I'm on a slope, too, which is why they can see the kids from the back door.

No front fence and I wouldn't put dogs in the front yard. I believe that some of them are younger than school age because I have heard them when I've been at home sick. Mini would probably be okay with training, though she is very reactive. Grumpy, no. Dementia, etc.

It's the sight of them. They can see them from outside the back door.

Ruger, perhaps you could provide some suggestions on this point. It would be much more helpful than overusing the symbol. Please bear in mind that I have a nearly 15-year-old dog who has dementia and fading eyesight. I will be interested in reading your thoughts. My first suggestion would be to actually meet your neighbours and introduce your dogs to the kids, let them get used to the kids playing, jumping on the trampoline and making noise and reassure them that the kids are not a threat by your postive reaction. It's called being neighbourly Perhaps you didn't read the bit where I have a nearly 15-year-old dog with dementia and fading eyesight. It's called protecting my dog.

Ruger, perhaps you could provide some suggestions on this point. It would be much more helpful than overusing the symbol. Please bear in mind that I have a nearly 15-year-old dog who has dementia and fading eyesight. I will be interested in reading your thoughts.

A HUMAN BEING IS MORE IMPORTANT THAN ANY DOG. Thank you for your valuable contribution. Thanks, LabTested. That would be great.

Is it possible to crate one of them so they can both be inside? Just a thought Yes, I could, but I can't do that for all of summer, I think.

Ruger, next door's kids are not more important to me than my dogs.

It isn't the noise, it's the appearance of the kids above the fence.

And the complaint about the show person has what to do with my question? For Ruger and bigdogg, I'd like to prevent something like this.

I have no relationship with them. Never spoken to them, nothing.