asal

Well I was watching the news and Coleman himself said he anticipated the majority would be euthanised going on previous kill rates for the previous year. so whoever the quote from I put, probably heard him too. if your argument is the kill rate , pet dogs will be next then considering the tens of thousands rspca already euthanasia every year, its a no win situation for the dogs unless Baird brings in NO KIll shelters for all canines

the reality has began apparently. http://www.dailytelegraph.com.au/news/nsw/mike-baird-greyhound-ban-breeder-told-to-prepare-to-put-down-litter-of-newborn-puppies/news-story/d84f802a12ee3e91b0be8eed907a9372 according to this, any dog born in nsw cannot be relocated to another state for racing? To all of you anti racers who monitor this page: the blood is now on your hands. You wanted the end of greyhound racing because of 'wastage' but the end of racing means the death of more dogs and the death of a breed. And yet you're still celebrating your 'win'. You're guilty of slaughtering more dogs then any other group of people. RSPCA have already come out and stated any greyhound surrendered to them will be immediately slaughtered no questions asked and no attempt at rehoming. Baird's legislation states that any pup born between now and the ban CANNOT be sold interstate and no dog's registration can be transferred to another State meaning every single dog in NSW is doomed and faces mass genocide at your hands!

actually that's the scary bit, no one is considered entitled to an opinion that does not mirror Bairds or AR. To do so is to have stepped across the line of decency. you cant recognise it because you agree with them both and so do not see or feel the threat to those to don't agree 80% should be punished for the behavior of 20%

how awful, and if the government is going to lump all greyhound owners in with them wonder if an additional legislation will be rushed in so all can be put on strict conditional bail? the closing down in the first place is because all have been found guilty by association with the 20% offending. anyway this was forwarded to me, probably of little benefit agains a man whose mind is already made up. but putting the link for those who may want to do something https://www.change.org/p/nsw-premier-mike-baird-overturn-the-nsw-government-s-decision-to-ban-greyhound-racing/share?utm_medium=email&utm_source=notification&utm_campaign=new_petition_recruit

I guess wherever there appears to be inconsistency there are two main possibilities. 1) Some things are not true; 2) Most things are true. It seems counter-intuitive, but sometimes apparent inconsistencies are attempts to describe a complex and varied situation. Sometimes one thing is the case and sometimes almost the opposite, but both occur. In the case of greyhounds, people are very emotional and upset. I feel they are saying things without a lot of thought sometimes. Whether those things are correct in some circumstances or not is difficult to figure out. Sometimes there is a story in the grey areas between inconsistencies. There are a lot of things I have been unable to get a straight answer on in the greyhound racing industry. It became apparent after a while that this is because there really isn't one. Lots of variation in how things are done and how people are participating in the industry means there is no single answer that encompasses a majority. agreed and both are true for many.You dont make money out of breeding dogs because all you make goes back into the dogs including infastructure and facilities whch could be sold after you retire but if there is no one any longer needing the kennels etc they drop rapidly in value. This might be true for companion dogs but it's not necessarily true for greyhounds. When you sell a litter of eight greyhound pups for $3,000* each, there is a hell of a lot of money in it. And while some might put profits back into better facilities, many don't. I'm sure there are a few who treat breeding greyhounds as a profession and try to do it to very high standards but the majority would be hobby or casual breeders- a couple of litters a year and to them, not really worth expensive upgrades to facilities or purpose-building things. Most breeders I've seen down here use little tin sheds in dirt yards- hardly the birthing suites at the Cedars-Sinai. *This number is not pulled from the air, by the way. Took a random page of classifieds from GD, worked out the mean price of pups on that page. Mean was $3,125 a pup, median was $3000. It is as true for any breed of dog as any other. There are so many variables that it's impossible for an outsider to judge whether someone is making a profit or not . However, there is no shame in making money out of breeding dogs anyway and if some one is able to do it and still cover doing what is best for the dogs then full marks to them . 8 puppies at 3000 each still doesn't equate to much when consideration is made for vetting dogs from puppy through to adult,vetting of the bitch and the litter ,feeding adult dogs all year and puppies as long as they stay , stud services, and a hundred other things. They sure as hell don't get anywhere near enough to go anywhere near getting paid for their time. If someone is saying things about their state of the art kennels then its a fair guess that this breeder has more than tin sheds and dirt yards, that they have invested lots of time and money into building them and had expectations of getting some of their money back when they sell. I love the people who expect to be paid a wage for their work, yet look down on anyone who bred the puppy they want , not only for "having bred their fur child and prostituted its babies for money", I have heard that said by a chap driving a 100,000 car, perhaps someone gave it to him? But to ask a price that not only covers the cost of breeding it, to ask more to cover the time they spent caring for them? They consider their work and time is worth money but not the breeder of the pet they want? strange thinking.

Standardbreds maybe, but gallopers never! If a Sheik can stop a mining company, and let's face it, they run the government, then Baird will be squashed in an instance. Let alone the fact the Thoroughbred racing industry is the second largest employer in the country and racing brings millions into the State economy. close, but so do greyhounds, the difference is that extra comma, Billions from tb racing

has this been posted before? http://www.racenet.com.au/mobile/article.asp?id=125683 neddies next

Well... I would say they believe those who say things that confirm their already held beliefs. ;) Inconsistencies don't seem to bother the majority of people IME. I don't think they even notice seeing as they are quite focused on confirmation. Those that are very opposed use them to their advantage, but often make the same kind of mistakes anyway. I doubt there were many on the fence after the live baiting scandal. Those that were never involved much suddenly had a good reason to care. It is difficult not to be moved by that footage. I still cringe and look away. Personally, I tend to dismiss sources of information of questionable accuracy. It doesn't make me think better or worse of either side of an argument. I just need better information. But, you know, that's what I've been trained to do. :) I agree that a single, reasoned voice for the industry would help, and these are times when strong leadership is critical, but it's not going to happen. People still need to express themselves. We have had these discussions in the training world, and I have argued time and time again that emotive arguments and selective reporting loses the very people that are most persuadable. No one ever listens to me, though. They are very frightened that any shift from the party line might mean they are condoning things they vehemently oppose. I've had people come to me for information precisely because they have seen me present both sides of an argument without much emotion. So, I still believe it wins people over. But, people hate to be told to be quiet when they have a lot to say. They of course believe they are helping by saying it. Suggesting maybe they are not tends to result in a great deal of hostility! so few realise how well organised AR is. either get a equal campaign up and running or it is going to succeed across the board. wrote this as a reply to a vegan who believes horses too are now fur children like our dogs. (bit like a animal farm possible scenario perhaps, will it happen or not is the question) I believe in freedom of choice and democracy. people donate their organs, their bodies for research. yet horses of no longer use whose owners do not have the facilities to keep, and no where to bury it, it are not to be allowed to send it to slaughter? that is a huge amount of meat going to waste and believe it or not dogs and cats cannot go vegan without health problems they are carnivores not omnivorous if u want omnivorous get a bear if the greyhound industry is to be shut down because 20% are offenders, then why is the churches not being closed down to protect our children as pell and that anglican bishop have proved, the church isn't going to protect them, close em down. Baird can then cash that too along with all the utilities he is selling to the highest bidder. as for the unfettered crap, the only thing fettered is the idiots who are registered breeders, they are the only ones being legislated into circles. it was said there are some 18 million dogs kept as pets, 90% of them couldn't possibly have come from registered breeders but the 90% who no one knows about are free to do as they please. the rspca figures was something like 176,000 Australia wide strays. the ankc only registers on average and its falling 60,000 in any given year registered where do u think the other 116,000 morphed from? cloning? cattle , sheep, goats and pigs are just as sentient as any horse, pigs for example are far smarter than dogs. I do think the day is comming when all abbatoirs will be closed down and everyone become vegan or chemically made 'meat' is the only choice. I expect it will not be too long before these will be extinct apart from a few kept so people can see what they looked like. but then this planet is being overrun by the human lemmings and once its stripped and uninhabitable the cycle will begin same as it did for the dinosours the vegan answer for people might seem a good one, although thanks to the csg spread even if they can be grown cleanly in greenhouses as is being done in spain, the air polution coming from the csg fields is going to add up same as it did until hydrocarbons were banned, they aren't going to ban csg production, too many mega bucks involved. although this country isnt going to benefit, local manufacturers are already complaining prices are going so high they will have to relocate overseas where the SAME gas is being exported and sold at half what the aussie companies are being slugged for gas sourced in their own country. its a weird world now you cant upgrade the horse to the status of fur child as has been done with dogs and deny cattle, sheep, goats, pigs and all other domestic animals the same rights and villify those who callously breed them for that worst of all vices, profit. almost forgot the chooks ducks and turkeys . at least our govenment is being even handed, every other business has been or in the process of closure and manufactured overseas. AH! HOW DID I MISS IT? those who still long for a fur child will probably be able to import one along with their, shirt, shoes, dress, fridge, laptop, smartphone and everything else on a more happy note, (Imp) after any animals name makes it more special anyway. (ps, havent researched the exact figures, trying to remember what I read so any corrections would be appreciated)

I'm actually just asking a question I thought was an interesting one. Just because no lure courser has ever mentioned it doesn't mean anything really... it must be nice to be able to idly speculate on this without having any worries about potentially losing something you have put years of effort into with ever harming an animal. These sorts of comments are dangerous right now. The baiting stuff is worse than a lie, if it had not been for the baiting scandal the vast majority of LC participants would have had no idea what baiting even was in the first place. It has been put out there by people who have no experience with LC to create a wedge that will eventually come after other dog sports, and just about any other dog that isn't a generic couch dog. Great Dane owners would want to be careful about that, because I can see size winding up as one of the idiotic criteria we end up having used against us (big dogs being unhealthy, and all that). LC only found itself in the Greyhound enquiry report because some bright spark decided to indulge in that sort of speculation. Even a cursory attempt at research would have revealed that he sport of lure coursing was CREATED to obviate the need for live game. What part of that is difficult to for people to grasp?? We don't use fur or fake fur. We use plastic bags. Dogs chase bags for the same reason they chase tennis balls. People may find it difficult to believe that a dog will go screaming berserk to chase a plastic bag. That's where getting out from behind the computer screen and attending an event is illustrative. I'm told that the science was that live baiting wasn't particularly effective in getting greyhounds to chase a mechanical lure. It was the sort of "dog training" that stemmed from the same timeframe that brought you rubbing dogs noses in their faeces to "toilet train" them. Dog training has moved on. I feel for the greyhound trainers who have been dragged down by the troglodytes in the industry. What's next? No check chains? No crates? Watch this space people because it now appears that idle speculation and even the potential for abuse will see babies tossed out with bathwater as the AR brigade move onto their next target. They have already proven that a good misinformation campaign and rubbery statistics will get them over the line. They have good reason to be confidant, its been pretty successful so far. was reading a website explaining how to spot a puppy farm. one of the criteria was the breeder had more than one litter to rise or another due soon. Even women living in the same house tend to synchronise, a doctor told me, same applies to dogs, horses u name it. Old time, obviously utterly stupid breeders (I gather) liked some of their bitches to have them at the same time or near, a big litter could be split to a bitch with only a small litter and less stress all round. both on the bitches and the breeder. if three litters near similar ages if one mum came down with milk fever she could be rested and her puppies fed by another, I know I raised a litter for a friend as hers had milk fever and mine only had 2 puppies, we helped each other at such times, but now a puppy cannot leave its breeder before its 8 weeks, so fostering someone else's puppy or puppies can get you facing the ethics committee these days, (it happened a few years ago, two friends were at a show and the one raising a fostered pup said to the other friend, can I buy that puppy? dont worry about getting it vaccinated, it can go to the vet with my puppies" some sharp ear's soul twigged the puppy referred to was obviously under 8 weeks and reported the sale of an under 8 week puppy and the fat hit the fan, it had been fostered at 3 days old) but common sense has little credibility anymore.

Exactly! and when is this same government intending doing anything as the churches both catholic and anglican reek of the appalling pedophilia coverups? will Baird be shutting down the churches and acquiring the real estate into consolidated revenue too ? friend involved in getting justice said there are some 500,000 survivors still alive of all ages australia wide. bit bigger scene so a bit of action might be about time, gives "suffer the little children" a whole new slant I doubt Jesus ever had in mind. Or are we to seriously believe dogs and their treatment ranks above the past and I don't doubt ongoing ruination of the lives of tens of thousands of children annually? or is it less distasteful because I am told approximately 70% euthanise themselves. at least domestic violence only euthanises about some 500 or 600 annually, figures aren't high enough to warrant action against holding the entire population responsible yet

it was posted before they will make some $170 $200 for every one put down, nice little money earner. as for the govt all that land now free for development. thats what counts , the sale of the nsw electricty utilities to china was stopped much to bairds fury and I cant blame him, every other state has had their sales cleared even the sale of darwain port, we will be as displaced as the original land owners by the time our govts has sold or leased everything they can at this rate anyway?

Right on about anyone can take their dog to the vet and have it put down for no better reason then they want it put down, daughter wanted to be a vet and did work experience at a big practice, it broke her heart how many perfectly healthy young dogs came in daily, by the end of a week she had held over a dozen by the second week dozens, some were greyhounds think 3 in the 2 weeks she was there, the others some 30 odd were pets who either barked too much,had grown too big, they shed too much, chewed too much, the owner was moving or the kids had lost interest, she was devastated and scotched that line of work. but she had to admit that was better than the ones we often see in our area dumped and looking at every passing car looking for their owners, school holidays around here are the worst, mainly its big breeds, German shepherds, labs , goldens, or bullie breed. The big surprise was a car slowed down, the door opened and they didn't even stop the wheels rolling as they dumped a half grown boston terrier. it did its best to keep up with the car for nearly a k before came to a confused halt. Picked up my dog food today and the lady at the counter believes once their greyhound trade is gone the business wont be able to continue. Wonder how many know the massive Petbarn franchise began with a greyhound trainer who began buying his dog food by the ton to save, friends began to ask can they get some , then friends of friends n friends of their friends began turning up, until his wife said enough and he leased a warehouse in Kingswood. It all mushroomed from there. There is millions going to be missing in income right down the chain, dog food, vets, even the tab income share for nsw n Baird. Heck hes trying to sell the electricity infrastructure to make ends meet, must be furious the china deal has been scotched.

You know that the muzzling requirements are already BSL? Why should Greyhounds be subject to Breed Specific Legislation, particularly once they will no longer be being bred for the purposes of racing and live baited? Because greyhounds have a higher prey drive than many other breeds, regardless of baiting or training, and there is a percentage that will see small dogs as prey. It's not discrimination, it's a breed trait. I have owned greys with very high drive (and still do) and while they are lovely dogs with people and larger dogs, they absolutely would kill something small and fluffy if they got the chance. Part of being a responsible owner is recognising and managing breed traits- pretending they don't exist does the breed no favours. Prey drive is a *dog* trait, and not exclusive to any one breed. There are many breeds that have a higher potential for prey drive, and many dogs within many breeds that have a high prey drive. There are plenty of dogs of all breeds that will kill other dogs for non-prey drive reasons too. Breed Specific Legislation has been shown time and time again to be a complete failure in preventing dog attacks. Adequate and well resourced animal management and education programs are what is effective. Roughly 25% of greys are not small dog safe. Let one of those dogs off lead at a park with a small dog and you'll have a dead small dog in less time than it takes you to realise what is happening. If your greyhound is muzzled and on leash, it can't chase down, grab and shake to death someone else's pet. Muzzling/leashing greyhounds is in no way similar to BSL for things like bull breeds. Muzzling/leashing is for their safety and the safety of other dogs/cats/small animals. In a perfect world, everyone would be sensible and responsible but back here in reality, greyhounds could be at risk of actual BSL if ignorant idiots are allowed to let their greys run unmuzzled and offlead. I know you don't understand the issue with greyhounds all that well (given you've had this same argument with Hazywal before) but if you're keen to find out for yourself, you're welcome to have one of my high drive fosters for a few weeks >.> (That is a serious offer, by the way. Nothing educates quite like the sight of your dog chasing down and destroying someone else's dog, while the attacked dog's owner screams for it to stop) Roughly 25% of Greyhounds (trusting your stats here) are not small dog safe after coming from an industry that heavily selected them for intense prey drive, did not socialise them to small dogs in their critical socialisation period (and potentially for years after), reinforced that drive over and over again and live baited many of them. I've got lots of experience with prey driven dogs, and once they've had a live kill (catching rabbits, possums, other animals while out or in their yards) the intensity of the drive goes through the roof and becomes much more difficult to manage. I would be *very* interested to see if that 25% stays once we're dealing with dogs that have not been bred, raised and trained in the racing industry. I suspect it won't. As far as I can tell, Australia is one of the only countries with BSL for Greyhounds, yet other countries are not suffering from rampaging Greyhounds killing every small dog in sight while being allowed to run around off leash. On top of that, plenty of non-greencollar approved greyhounds are currently owned by people who do not comply with the legislation, and yet again we are not seeing rampaging greys on the loose killing other dogs in any sort of regularity. I am not doubting that some Greyhounds are a true safety issue around small dogs, from genetics alone. Those dogs need to be rehomed carefully to owners who take their potential seriously, just like dogs of other breeds that also pose a safety risk. Part of that is likely to be the owner muzzling/leashing them in public. If the risk is too great for that individual dog, they should not be rehomed. "In a perfect world, everyone would be sensible and responsible" - I agree that we don't live in a perfect world but the people that aren't sensible and responsible won't muzzle and leash their greys regardless of the rules. The vast majority *are* sensible and responsible and prevent their dogs ever being an issue. Meanwhile we have 75%+ of Greys that pose no risk subject to legislation that stigmatises them and hinders their adoptability. We've also got animal management officers wasting time attempting to enforce it rather than focusing on other strategies proven to be successful. ETA: I would genuinely love to take you up on your offer, however I can't foster adult dogs - my dog is an arsehole to them on her own property (super social off the property). Not fair on the other dog. It's a shame as given the industry shutdown I'd really love to foster some Greys over the next 12 months and beyond. Drive is not necessarily hereditary- I rehomed the litter sister of a Launceston Cup winner, he was a hard, driven dog, she went to a home with a cat and a chihuahua. I've had two litter sisters, one went on to be rehomed to the owner of our test small dog and the other.. prey drive too high to rehome. Breeders use popular sires thinking that the drive will be present in the pups but more often than not, litters are completely random. As for things like socialisation.. the impacts are questionable. I had a dog surrendered to me who had been rehomed as a baby puppy, lived his whole life with a particular cat and then at 3 or 4 years of age.. chased down and killed that cat. I've taken in several pups (oopsie litters) who were never trained and again, prey drive levels were random- there was one who was cat safe, one was questionable on cats but fine with small dogs, another was definitely not small dog safe. There is a reason why every greyhound needs to be tested and that is that the dog's background is not particularly useful in estimating level of prey drive. Race training doesn't necessarily make any difference and live baiting only amplifies the dogs who were already on the higher end of the scale. With racing gone, drive will be a lot less of a consideration in breeding and for some people (the ones who will let their dog offlead without thinking about it), I suppose that's a good thing. Personally though.. I don't think it's necessarily a good thing for the breed's future. The greys we have today are a product of their purpose- they might not be suited to the sort of person who can't be bothered with a leash but then, the breed shouldn't have to change to suit the lowest common denominator. Water down an important breed trait and you risk losing the characteristics that make the breed what it is. " the breed shouldn't have to change to suit the lowest common denominator. " the entire reason this thread exists is exactly because only one word of yours need changing Breed / industry. it was shut down because of the lowest common denominator. found a dumped puppy today playing chicken with the traffic, (assumed it is dumped, had the lost look and not a house within a mile of where it was) took it to Animal Welfare to be told they are so full they cannot take any strays unless they have been injoured, lucky for the pup they discovered an injury to its tail so now has a safe haven intead of the council pound they were going to send me too instead, I doubt it would have had much of a future at a pound being so young and no chip odds are isnt vaccinated either n pounds are a death sentance for such pups im told. there certainly isnt any room for an influx of greyhounds there at the moment

Very happy about this yet your next sentence is lots of dogs are going to be destroyed. There is no plan in place as yet. Maybe in 3 months according to the Government. What happens to all the greys in Vic, for example, waiting their turn to go into GAP or rescue? Will they be displaced by NSW dogs? Are all the bleeding hearts a suitable home for a greyhound? I'd suggest no. It's not as if they couldn't have adopted a greyhound previously so why didn't they? Cause they don't want one. The homes aren't there. The ANKC world had better hope eyes aren't turned their way, after all they have a few bad eggs who do the wrong thing, much like the greyhound world. And look at what has happened to Greyhounds NSW. think is pretty obvious answer. The precendent is set. some bad eggs mean the rest go too. was wondering why no questions in the censis asked if a household had pets , what species and how many? now that would have let the cat out of the bag as to how many there actually are would have been seriously interesting to have accurate instead of estimate figures well apparently some in the farming sector think they will be next under the spotlight Perhaps some of the comments on the farming forum re this photo sum up the problems actually, " But cows only eat one meal a day. One, incredibly long meal. consider how long it has been since an actual farmer had a hand in writing laws.." The same applies to even the so called code of ethics the the ankc's have adopted. My vet commented "no repro vet could have agreed with the one litter per year rule, bitches were intended by nature to have their litters one after the other while young, then retired early in their life, the older the bitch the same problems arise as in older women, the more mutations in the aged eggs". What I found particularly interesting was the speaker was a long serving vet at RSPCA Victoria and left because of the increasing influence of AR activists

Very happy about this yet your next sentence is lots of dogs are going to be destroyed. think the logic is they die for the greater good?

interesting that the two who went through a door and killed are simply declared dangerous dogs and it was the owner who has decided to have them put down. yet this dog, the local council has ordered to be put down because a neighbor has complained about it barking? http://blog.change.org/change-au/this-family-dog-with-sunnies-could-be-seized-destroyed-for-barking

n the sheeple don't believe they are being targeted, that its just bad people and the disgusting puppy farmers?

Umm, You don't have to sleep with them. There IS NO Separation of breeder practices by group. No group can ever be exempt from poor practice. No group can ever say sh*t doesn't happen in 'My' space. To insist Pedigree breeders have a 'different' space will see pedigree dogs ( and others) eventualy, go the same way as as the greyhound industry. No doubt. In accepting that all DOGS and BREEDERS have equal legitimacy to Man and his communities, the focus shifts from 'Groups' or environments, back to individuals and their own practices, where it belongs. Does this PERSON live up to the expectations of our community? Forget your 'own' space for that. Doesn't matter if a person lives up to K.C expectations if they are not also community expectations. With SHARED environment, conversation can shift to those values and practices, ( not groups ) that bring bring best results for Dogs and the communities they live in. Bringing shared responsibility of communities, A better educated and informed public. Puppy farms would fail on the expectations of a more responsible and informed public. Its the way to ensure puppy farms DON"T succeed hobby/enthusiast breeders. The way its going ATM, Puppy farms and commercial breeders have all the advantage available. Its a matter of Saving pedigree dogs, and domestic dogs in general. I find it very hard to respect a group that would rather 'die' and destroy a welcoming, valued space for dogs for every one, than change a belief that only a 'pedigree' can give a dog, a breeder or an owner validity. That superiority of pedigrees is a given, regardless of practice and environmental purpose. Thats what it amounts to. Any body claiming to be FOR dogs has a responsibility to shape and form those expectations. For dogs. Or they fail dogs at the most basic level. Its very unlikely puppy farms would ever have become an issue if the premier Breeder bodies had accepted in the 1st place that they are not THE environment for dog breeders, just one of many with a responsibility to the communities that support them to demonstrate value. A responsibility to a healthier environment than whats been left in their wake with a belief superiority is in a pedigree, not a dog or its purpose and values to its own space . You think your 'Group space' can single handedley meet community expectations, for all of us, go for it, But you will be judged by the worst, as a group. You fail my expectations. I have lost hope for my breed, along with most anyone who valued them for their purpose. Oh, right, your incomprehensible posts have actually been about you. Gee, sorry about not wanting to be likened to BYBs and puppyfarmers. Guess your expectations were always going to be dashed on the rocks of other people's ethics. I have no trouble understanding what moosesmum said? everyone can be likened to a byb and a puppyfarmer, as it is all the true puppy farms are licensed and literally factory built, hundreds of square metres of concrete and shedding aka any modern piggery all equally legal, those who have them at home with out the factory complex, all it takes is the accusation by someone who thinks they are better than you, few bother to question is it true, where animals are concerned its guilty until trial by media, online and gossip has run out of steam and ceased. I noticed all the headlines about the chihuahua breeder in vic suddenly went silent and how many weeks or months is it now since they and a neighbor were smothered in tar? the rage about the dead bodies was the neighbors property and a different breed but few noticed that minor hiccup in detail? as to charges laid the silence is deafening? charges sure were laid and frogmarched to court for that lady with the debarked tibetan spaniels as I recall she was facing some 60 years jail there were so many charges, furtunately for her although the chargeees said they had to seize the dogs and take her to court as their hands were tied, the legislation clearly stated she cannot show a dog in victoria if it was debarked in another state. no problem if its just a pet, but show it and your toast. lucky for her and her dogs the magistrate threw it out. thanks goodness that mans hands werent tied even though it was law even if a pretty incredibly stupid one. is it still there or been repealed? but no matter even if no charges are ever laid their reputation is mud and the stuff rarely washes off successfully, the majority so targeted dissappear due to the distress and the finger pointer is satisfied, reminds me of the salem witch trials actually The magistrate didn't throw it out and the law is still there. so what eventually happened? I was told she got them back and wasn't sent to jail? think was did my head in was anyone from another state with their debarked dog can go to Victoria and show it and its not a chargeable offense, as its not illegal to show a debarked dog just illegal if its born in vic , debarked in another state and then exhibited in Victoria by a Victorian, ?

Umm, You don't have to sleep with them. There IS NO Separation of breeder practices by group. No group can ever be exempt from poor practice. No group can ever say sh*t doesn't happen in 'My' space. To insist Pedigree breeders have a 'different' space will see pedigree dogs ( and others) eventualy, go the same way as as the greyhound industry. No doubt. In accepting that all DOGS and BREEDERS have equal legitimacy to Man and his communities, the focus shifts from 'Groups' or environments, back to individuals and their own practices, where it belongs. Does this PERSON live up to the expectations of our community? Forget your 'own' space for that. Doesn't matter if a person lives up to K.C expectations if they are not also community expectations. With SHARED environment, conversation can shift to those values and practices, ( not groups ) that bring bring best results for Dogs and the communities they live in. Bringing shared responsibility of communities, A better educated and informed public. Puppy farms would fail on the expectations of a more responsible and informed public. Its the way to ensure puppy farms DON"T succeed hobby/enthusiast breeders. The way its going ATM, Puppy farms and commercial breeders have all the advantage available. Its a matter of Saving pedigree dogs, and domestic dogs in general. I find it very hard to respect a group that would rather 'die' and destroy a welcoming, valued space for dogs for every one, than change a belief that only a 'pedigree' can give a dog, a breeder or an owner validity. That superiority of pedigrees is a given, regardless of practice and environmental purpose. Thats what it amounts to. Any body claiming to be FOR dogs has a responsibility to shape and form those expectations. For dogs. Or they fail dogs at the most basic level. Its very unlikely puppy farms would ever have become an issue if the premier Breeder bodies had accepted in the 1st place that they are not THE environment for dog breeders, just one of many with a responsibility to the communities that support them to demonstrate value. A responsibility to a healthier environment than whats been left in their wake with a belief superiority is in a pedigree, not a dog or its purpose and values to its own space . You think your 'Group space' can single handedley meet community expectations, for all of us, go for it, But you will be judged by the worst, as a group. You fail my expectations. I have lost hope for my breed, along with most anyone who valued them for their purpose. Oh, right, your incomprehensible posts have actually been about you. Gee, sorry about not wanting to be likened to BYBs and puppyfarmers. Guess your expectations were always going to be dashed on the rocks of other people's ethics. I have no trouble understanding what moosesmum said? everyone can be likened to a byb and a puppyfarmer, as it is all the true puppy farms are licensed and literally factory built, hundreds of square metres of concrete and shedding aka any modern piggery all equally legal, those who have them at home with out the factory complex, all it takes is the accusation by someone who thinks they are better than you, few bother to question is it true, where animals are concerned its guilty until trial by media, online and gossip has run out of steam and ceased. I noticed all the headlines about the chihuahua breeder in vic suddenly went silent and how many weeks or months is it now since they and a neighbor were smothered in tar? the rage about the dead bodies was the neighbors property and a different breed but few noticed that minor hiccup in detail? as to charges laid the silence is deafening? charges sure were laid and frogmarched to court for that lady with the debarked tibetan spaniels as I recall she was facing some 60 years jail there were so many charges, furtunately for her although the chargeees said they had to seize the dogs and take her to court as their hands were tied, the legislation clearly stated she cannot show a dog in victoria if it was debarked in another state. no problem if its just a pet, but show it and your toast. lucky for her and her dogs the magistrate threw it out. thanks goodness that mans hands werent tied even though it was law even if a pretty incredibly stupid one. is it still there or been repealed? as for the two tarred and feathered long before facing a day in court, doesn't really matter if they are guilty or innocent does it, murderers are treated so differently, they actually have rights of innocent UNTIL proven guilty, for some weird reason? but no matter even if no charges are ever laid their reputation is mud and the stuff rarely washes off successfully, the majority so targeted dissappear due to the distress and the finger pointer is satisfied, reminds me of the salem witch trials actually

Sorry, but your post is a load of twaddle. Umm did you spot the two or was it more? pollies who said pretty close to the same "twaddle" tonight on ABC news, one was Fred Nile? some are considering to cross the floor and vote against Bairds quest to close down the greyhounds.

The comment about the adds is so true, what a waste of taxpayers money, I was driving yesterday and on the radio comes an add extorting people to go to .... website and register their desire for greyhound racing to be shut down. no mention of a website to register a desire for it to continue. not exactly democratic.

wise words indeed for all being targeted by AR June 29, 2016 It’s well documented the challenges the American Greyhound Racing industry has faced, and continues to face… their battle is far from over. That same war, those same anti-racing tactics, the same lies, even the same smell of hypocrisy is here in Australia, it’s do or die people, we must stand up to these bullies, and we must educate the public, businesses and politicians before it’s too late. We’ll never change the minds of AR people, they have too much hate in their hearts, our time and effort is better spent on educating those that are capable of rational thinking. MAKE NO MISTAKE, this is the biggest crisis our grand old sport has ever faced, and it if we survive it, the next crisis or attack on our way of life is just around the corner… so for the sake of all of our future, let’s UNITE, if it’s not with this rapidly growing racing advocacy group (NGRU), then at least join your local association and get involved. NEVER GO INTO BATTLE WITHOUT A SWORD AND SHIELD! Meaning defend the sport, and fight back with facts, which by doing so will enlighten neutrals, and will prove how deceitful and conniving anti-racing people and groups are, thus destroying their perceived credibility, and will slow their propaganda machine to a halt… avoid arguments, present your evidence based fact(s) and let the neutrals decide what to believe. GET INVOLVED, GET PROACTIVE, SUPPORT A RACING GROUP, REFORM, EDUCATE, LEAD BY EXAMPLE, RESPECT EVERYONE, BE PROFESSIONAL and we will always get to enjoy this amazing breed and sport. We’re very lucky to have many friends and supporters around the world, but one of the most intelligent and well spoken greyhound person would have to be Dennis McKeon. With countless pieces written, Dennis has gained much respect within the worldwide greyhound family. There’s that word, family… we’re exactly that, one big dysfunctional family. Most of us are highly competitive and love nothing more to beat each other… but we all dig deep in times of crisis such as floods and bush fires, we open our hearts, homes and kennels for our greyhound brothers and sisters… so why is it we can’t put aside any ill feelings, and stop with infighting to work together, and ultimately help save our sport? Dennis answered our call to write a piece that would hopefully wake a few more pro-racers up to the reality we all face, please take the time to read and absorb the article below ↓ For our friends in Australia…. It’s Deja Vue All Over Again – By Dennis McKeon Observing the ongoing controversies that have sucked Australian Greyhound racing into the vortex of sensationalist media bias and the madness of international animal rights lunacy, it might be instructional to impart to you some of our American experience, so that you may avoid at least a few of the many mistakes that were made here. While there are notable differences in how Greyhound racing is conducted and supported in each of our countries, there seems to be very little difference in the controversies that surround the Greyhound, and those individuals who choose to breed them and to race them. While it is certainly not my place to judge Australian Greyhound professionals, Greyhound racing has been a hot button item in the USA for nearly 50 years now. While its long term future here is tenuous at best, we have managed to learn a few things over the course of the years. For what it’s worth, you may wish to consider the following, wherever applicable. With the advent of social media, Greyhound racing professionals have some unique opportunities they have never had in the past. Given that the mainstream media thrives on sensational human interest stories, Greyhound racing has become the default subject for news editors and journalist-activists, who either need to fill airtime or blank spaces on newsprint, or who wish to “advocate” on social media. Seldom has the Greyhound racing professional been allowed to present his/her side of whatever happens to be the “scandal du jour,” and almost always, whether it is deserved or not, they are the subject of much derision and demonization. Nevertheless, social media has presented the Greyhound racing community with a unique chance to rebrand the sport, and to reach out to an audience that is actually thirsting for your intimate knowledge of the breed and of individual Greyhounds., While it may be hard to believe, given the emotional excess and furor the media and racing’s detractors have whipped up, much of this audience is actually willing to meet you halfway, or almost halfway. As breeders and handlers, racing professionals are custodians of the largest group of Greyhound goodwill ambassadors in the world. That would be, of course, the Greyhounds themselves. Disposing of these goodwill ambassadors once their racing careers have come to an end, however humanely done, is a patently self-defeating strategy. Making certain that each and every adoptable Greyhound can find a “forever home” in retirement, is not only the ethical and moral “right thing to do”, but it is the single, most effective way to win the hearts and minds of those who are now only able to perceive these dogs as wretched and pathetic objects of pity, with you as their oppressors, and an assortment of anti-racing zealots as their saviors. Most people, believe it or not, are capable of putting two-and-two together. It doesn’t take a quantum leap of faith, for any individual who is capable of a modicum of critical thinking, to realize that their loving, good-natured, well- behaved , endearing and enchantingly quirky couch-potato, is indeed the embodiment and manifestation of all that is good about the racing model, and the people who are the custodians of the breed. It’s a very simple concept. The more Greyhounds there are, populating family and personal domiciles, the more obvious the cause and effect of racing, and all it entails, upon the nature, character and disposition of the Greyhound population. It becomes quite undeniable, to all but the most canine-averse and ideologically twisted. The Greyhound is what he is, because of–not in spite of–his racing genetics, bloodline, environment, handling, training and racing experiences. That’s how dogs manifest. The great temptation of social media, is to engage and to lash out at the many anti-racing activists and their followers, who have done a masterful job of isolating, targeting, propagandizing, and negatively stereotyping racing professionals. Allowing oneself to be drawn into slanging matches with these extremists is a critical mistake. You will never convince the “true believers” that there is anything good about racing or the Greyhound’s participation in it. There is no way to ever mollify frothing-at-the-mouth, irrational ideologues. Yet, for every fanatical, anti-racing extremist you may encounter, there are thousands of innocent but interested bystanders, who are gauging the veracity of what you have to say, to a great extent, by the way you say it. To put it bluntly, the “antis” are the lunatic fringe–you are not. So don’t allow yourselves to be drawn into their profane and hateful world of ideological tyranny and emotional fascism. Allowing yourselves to be goaded into a vicious argument with those who have little to no empirical knowledge of the subject, but who will repeat any lie or half-truth they may have gleaned from any other source, equally as oblivious, no matter how preposterous it may be, is playing right into their hands. The object must always be to educate, and most of the time, education is a brick-by-brick process. Remember, we are corresponding and interacting with a public so grievously misinformed, that most people cannot even conceive of a colony of purpose-bred, sporting dogs, being perfectly content, fulfilled and well-adjusted, doing precisely what they have been bred to do, for dozens of generations of track racing. This is where social media can enable the greyhound professional to respond most eloquently to their detractors and antagonists. Nearly everyone today has a cell phone with video capability. If you are not inclined to write long-winded and turgid essays like this one, there is nothing stopping you from making any number of informative and instructional videos, presenting the Greyhound in his natural racing environs, interacting with his kennel mates and handlers, and thoroughly enjoying him/herself while doing so. Greyhound adopters are, as a group, extremely curious about their adopted Greyhound’s lives and experiences prior to adoption, the day-to-day, slice of life events, or non-events. While you may not be able to personalize that for them and their specific greyhound, you can certainly demonstrate the norm for the great majority of Greyhounds. By so doing, you can, brick-by-brick, deconstruct most, if not all of the bizarre, counter-intuitive and harmful mythology that anti-racing dogma has popularized. Meanwhile, there are dozens of social media venues that provide networking and advice for the Greyhound adopter. Oftentimes, the advice offered by well-meaning but misinformed people, is wrong-headed, if not downright inhibitive to the Greyhound’s adjustment to adoptive life. This is because the vast majority of the public have been led to believe that Greyhound racing is some sort of clandestine cult, featuring abuse, torture and death worship. It is up to each and every individual who cares enough to do so, to put a new, modern, friendly and caring face on Greyhound racing. In the final analysis, these ever-burgeoning and uncommonly enthusiastic communities of Greyhound adopters are now your co-custodians of the breed. They also have a stake in his future as a vibrant, genetically diverse, highly functional population. His future is only in jeopardy, because of a failure to communicate that, in a rational, thoughtful and intensely personal manner. Do not make the mistake of waiting for industry leadership to build your bridges. You will have to do that for yourselves. It’s all about winning hearts and minds. But to do that, as we have learned, we first have to open up our own. copyright, 2016 ©

love hes carrying his lead, saw a lab today doing just that while his human was busy flying his remote helicopter as they walked along the foot path.

finally some good PR for greyhounds, was a bit surprised they are lumped as a "giant breed"

no idea where to get it ?