asal

sadly they don't need to be, as that add used to sing. "Ive got the power" Like Baird she intends to use it, unless we who know the disaster that is going to unfold, wake up like the greyhound people and actually DO SOMETHING to make her realise WE HAVE THE POWER, to chuck her whole sanctimonious lot out of power. But if the past is anything to go by, nothing is going to happen until after the axe falls, even the greys didnt before they were actually put in the killing pen did they?

just had an idea. why dont those who are going to be affected AND EVEN THOSE who might be affected get their collective butts together and launch a class action RE Restriction of Trade, same as the Greyhound people did? With a little luck every pet shop in the land will be onboaard along with the rest of us lowlifes as the Hon Ms PULFORD views them. Get enough together and its not the mega thousands apiece if its just a lone or a few and dont tell me these pollies dont run petrified at spending mega bulk in court costs. Remember the Greys won the judgement, even before Baird did his about spin. I have a friend is one of those in the class action against be chucked off the pending Badgerys Creek airport. they know the drill for what needs to be done to get one up and running, maybe a crowdfunding appeal ???? Incidently the cheeky buggers are still living there. I sure know I would be donating This is morphing into a war of them or us. make no mistake. no matter how they like to sugar coat its only going to affect :eek: :eek: puppy farmers, oops now hasnt there been a word exchange? puppy factories? :eek: :eek: :eek: now imagine matted doggy photo to jerk out all those tears. (anyone spot the matted doggie that was cleaned up by a groomer recently, one dog househould?) but surely NOOOOOOOOOOO! only puppy farmer/factories have matted doggies, get rid of them and the world is the long coat doggies oyster, no matts heaven. WHAT? No reality checks permitted?

... but we don't have to take any of it into consideration because the animal welfare activists will be off our backs, and they are louder and nastier than those who just want to get on with doing the right thing... T. EXACTLY BIG lesson still not learned by " those who just want to get on with doing the right thing... "

10. pet shops can provide poor environments for puppies and kittens; but a perfect environment for rescue puppies and kittens? 11. pet shops encourage impulse buying, which can lead to irresponsible ownership or an increase in unwanted animals; But doesn't happen when its a rescue sold? 12. pet shops provide market access for illegal breeders; umm I was asking a pet shop owner that very question, The one with the oodles, they have to have the details of anyone who they buy a puppy from so suprise, suprise, complete disclosure of where the pet came from? 13. online dog and cat advertisements are failing to meet the legislative requirements 14. enforcement of online and print advertising is sporadic; 15. it is expensive for foster carers to register their foster animals with local council; 16. foster carers currently supply large numbers of kittens to pet shops; 17. some public sales of animals should be able to occur under certain conditions; and finally 18. unregulated public sales of birds create welfare problems. The department developed multiple policy options for addressing these concerns. Policy options must be balanced — that is, they must consider both sides of the argument — achieve the desired outcome, be cost effective and be practical. what a simply awesomely balanced dogs breakfast. Well the inquiry was just what it looked like it may be, let the disgusting witches/bitches/breeders/pet shops get their concernes aired and then we can say they have had their chance to submit their evidence then free to ignore everything said. THE GRAND EXPERIMENT IS ON TRACK! abiet a delay of 12 months, small sacrifice for the beginning of the NEW ORDER. Wonder a little what part of, "we will go broke, if we can only sell rescues." Didn't compute that once closed they cease to sell anything not even rescues? But then we are dealing with genius who can see the BIG PICTURE. Whatever that is?

is it just me who thinks they held the inquiry to show they are prepared to listen to concerns. but that it was all just a public relations scam? to appease the masses so they hope wont get a backlash like baird did? There are two "theys", the lower house has a govt majority so the Bill passed easily, the upper house does not have a majority, they have more greens, minor party and independent members and it is the upper house which is holding the inquiry.............the issue has become a political one............I don't believe this inquiry is "going through the motions", they are investigating flawed legislation based on incorrect premises in some aspects, and written without proper consultation of all affected Yes. On all counts. is there the faintest chance what I notice was not said by Walker at the hearing will what she put on the net page ever get to be seen and read by these people in parliament, is there anyway to ensure they do see it?" admitting this is one huge experiment never done anywhere else in the world and the AVA, the pet shops and those who actually breed dogs know this is going to make all involved with dogs and probably cats as well to go belly up in fast and disastrous order? “This legislation provides the starting point for a great step forward in animal welfare. “By 2020, we hope that breeding facilities with hundreds of dogs and cats in putrid conditions will be a thing of the past. “These changes will also mean breeding dogs should be healthier and easier for breeders to rehome, because it’s easier to provide some basic socialisation and exposure to a normal life when smaller numbers of animals are involved,” she said. Dr Walker said RSPCA Victoria would welcome further investigation and research around the relationship between numbers of animals and welfare outcomes. “No jurisdiction in the world has had the courage to set a low limit on the number of animals kept by breeders, so research into the link between animal numbers and welfare outcomes is limited,” Dr Walker said. (my words, limited is double speak for as she says up first, never been done so NO REASEARCH will they realise this means no one has a clue?) “Setting a limit will allow us to start benchmarking welfare outcomes in Victoria.”

is it just me who thinks they held the inquiry to show they are prepared to listen to concerns. but that it was all just a public relations scam? to appease the masses so they hope wont get a backlash like baird did? Wouldn't it be worse for them if they held public consultation and didn't listen then especially if it all goes pear shaped. --Lhok by pushing the date for compliance back to 2018 the fat wont be hitting the fan for two years instead of now is that before or after the next election?

is it just me who thinks they held the inquiry to show they are prepared to listen to concerns. but that it was all just a public relations scam? to appease the masses so they hope wont get a backlash like baird did?

you see some amazing things, a friend bred show guinea pigs and dwarf rabbits, they had the run of the backyard and were guarded by her rottie from the neighbourhood cats. never forget the first time I saw the arrangement. massive rottie asleep on the grass and nestled like a litter of puppies were her brood of bunnies and guinea pigs sleeping between her legs with her.

Australians need to remember, the elected faces we see do not run this country, the power brokers do. Have you forgotten what happened to Rudd when he thought as Prime Minister he made the decisions, Abbot tried the same thing and he too was deposed and replaced with a more biddable candidate. the only time the exhaulted take notice of the masses is if a decision has created unrest and they might not be relected, Bairds turnaround over shutting down the greyhounds is a shining example. Unless a large number threaten their power they have no interest in the opinion of the great unwashed as they so obvioulsy think of the voters. they genuflect to the AR mob because they are polished at convincing them they are the spokespeople for the majority of the votes they need. Until somehow they learn the silent majority who don't make a move until they are personally affected do not back the AR's their influence will not be curtailed. They wave a photo of a matted, malnourished dog and SCREAM a puppy farmer did this, the masses are appalled and back the destruction of puppy farms, without ever realising the plan is their own elimination too. They Show photos of the horrific practice of using a live animal and the masses forget even the report said this was done by a few, and the AR people have whipped up enough that few seem to remember innocent 80% are going down too. Thats 8 out of ten being held accountable for the behaviour of 2? What puzzles me no end, is Photos of children traumatized by pedophiles, nor Photos of the women bashed or killed by domestic violence does not seem to elicit the same degree of response? Even the perpetrators are not held to be guilty until proven innocent, nor are the rest of the population held to be as guilty for not reporting the abuse, quite strange

How did she get this job? Every time she opens her mouth she sounds like Oscars Law. whats the odd's on her being a member? How does that saying go? "If it quacks like a duck?"

my friend had a greyhound her brother had raced, she and her littermates had been trained that the first to get to him with the squeaky toy got the toy to play with, so when they raced they were not chasing the mechanical hare, they knew the first to get to him got the toy. it was hilarious the day the hare malfunctioned, honey never gave it a glance as she shot by it and all but two of the dogs in the field took honey's Que and ran for their lives trying to catch honey. She won every race she was entered in, but she tried so hard she would finish exhausted so was retired rather than risk serious injury. so, swing a squeaky toy and honey would behave like a loon streaking around the yard until you threw her toy and she, if anything as she scooped it up doubled her speed. lucky greys are sprinters and in no time she was winded and happy to snooze with her trophy. used to scare me witless to see her careen at the swing set terrfied she would misjudge and hit an upright with one of those skinny legs, but she never did. it was fascinating how she interacted with Salem their cat when they met, she was terrified of him and over the next ten years of her life her fear and respect for him never altered, he was a horrible vindictive cat (he would permit me to feed him but he would bite and scratch me with no warning the second Maree was home) so at first I thought he had attacked her when no one was looking but she never went near, (simply ignored them) any of the neighbours cats either, when they came to pinch Salem's leftovers. She never took any notice of the various lizards in the backyard either . cannot recall her ever taking any notice of the birds either even when they were pinching her leftovers. I often fed them when Maree was away visiting her parents. loved watching the telly with honey spread across 3/4 of the lounge and graciously permitted me half a cushion, she was a glorious girl. decades earlier I found a lost grey and she was just as regal and ladylike, was sad when her owner came after I had given her tattoo number to the radio station that called the greyhound races, that was around 1967, turned out she was a quite a famous old girl and mum and grandmum of a few champions. She too never gave Sylvester my dads cat a second glance, although cracker night scared the daylights out of her and solved it by doing the same as I did for my horses, put cotton wool in her ears until it was over. I rather thought they might be all like those two ladies. somehow any like them would not be much good for research on prey drive in greys :-)

with a bit of luck by the time it happens there will be so few dogs and puppies of any breed available anyone who really wants a dog but cant find one will snap them up. as for if the vic govt get their planned changes though that will be sooner than you can possibly imagine I hope that isn't the case but if it did as you said would be good for the Greys maybe they're not everyone's cup of tea. There won't be any greys. Will that make you finally happy? If there is no dog breeding at all? Cos that's what's happening in Victoria right now. I have no time for people who cannot see past their own nose. Huh?? Are you talking to me? If so can you please elaborate as I don't understand what you are getting at. This is a thread on racing Greys and the demise of an industry not breeding dogs in general. SOMEDAY, someone will do a history of this and believe it or not, they will see this as all linked, but since the dog world is so utterly divided each is failing to see that. But once the smoke has cleared it will be noticed one day I can see the link between the push by the pollies for welfare in both industries and how the changes are going to affect the way things are done, but for the moment I'm interested in how to save dog's lives. I had pups in the kennels I worked in that weren't mine but I invested a lot of time and emotion into that may be caught up in this fiasco I want to find ways to help them. I empathise with the breeders but as I have never bred a dog, only ever owned one dog that I bought from a registered breeder (they have all been rescues of many different breeds and xbreds)I don't feel that I am qualified to comment on the issues surrounding registered breeders. well if the legislation in vic goes through, then spread through the other states which is what the AR lot are pushing for, there wont be enough left to find let alone get a puppy from, which is what the fate of the greyhounds is intended to achieve as well.

with a bit of luck by the time it happens there will be so few dogs and puppies of any breed available anyone who really wants a dog but cant find one will snap them up. as for if the vic govt get their planned changes though that will be sooner than you can possibly imagine I hope that isn't the case but if it did as you said would be good for the Greys maybe they're not everyone's cup of tea. There won't be any greys. Will that make you finally happy? If there is no dog breeding at all? Cos that's what's happening in Victoria right now. I have no time for people who cannot see past their own nose. Huh?? Are you talking to me? If so can you please elaborate as I don't understand what you are getting at. This is a thread on racing Greys and the demise of an industry not breeding dogs in general. SOMEDAY, someone will do a history of this and believe it or not, they will see this as all linked, but since the dog world is so utterly divided each is failing to see that. But once the smoke has cleared it will be noticed one day

in some quarters this can create what is termed "learned helplessness" which is what the dog fraternity is on a steep learning curve unless it can pull a cat, ooop's, DOG out of the bag. "learned helplessness nounPsychiatry noun: learned helplessness a condition in which a person suffers from a sense of powerlessness, arising from a traumatic event or persistent failure to succeed. It is thought to be one of the underlying causes of depression. "

Aren't we lucky, non volunteered, but drafted anyway, guinea pigs for the worlds first grand experiment. Yet she made no mention of it at the inquiry? WONDER WHY?

as long as you provide a dry shelter where they can sleep and rest, and where they are protected from strong winds you can leave them outside the whole year. Our guinea pigs (boy group and a girl group, each group in a separate compound) have been born outside and lived all their live outside (they are all over 6 years old now). had a friend who rabbit fenced his yard and his herd and I do mean herd, some 30 to 40 cavies/guinea pigs had the run of almost 1/4 acre, kept his lawns perfect. They had boxes under the house to sleep in but they were never locked up. The local hawks took the occasional unwary but they were hard to catch napping. He didn't lose many.

with a bit of luck by the time it happens there will be so few dogs and puppies of any breed available anyone who really wants a dog but cant find one will snap them up. as for if the vic govt get their planned changes though that will be sooner than you can possibly imagine I hope that isn't the case but if it did as you said would be good for the Greys maybe they're not everyone's cup of tea. have you read the transcripts on the other thread? some realise people will not be able to source what they want in the near future, even the AVA letter stated that many people will chose to go without rather than accept a breed they do not want, ditto for those who do not want a rescue. Personally I like greys, ultimate lounge lizard and so regal to boot

wow, getting my head around the idea dogs can end up costing $5,000 $15,000 because there are too few to go around? at those prices anyone with a puppy for sale will be pillared for having bred it to make money, even more of a no win situation

with a bit of luck by the time it happens there will be so few dogs and puppies of any breed available anyone who really wants a dog but cant find one will snap them up. as for if the vic govt get their planned changes though that will be sooner than you can possibly imagine

spotted on FB interesting "Regarding the current negotiations goingon in Victoria. and the attempt to rein in the effort to extend destructive 'government' controls over all animal owners, have you thought to consider WHO will be given the mandate to 'enforce' the new rules - however benignly they may be in the way they are written up. My suggestion - make sure. first, before you agree to ANYTHING, that the RSPCA will not be permitted to get their nose in the financial trough they are building. See the DEFRA report recommendations now going to the House of Commons in the UK regarding the RSPCA's role in 'enforcing' animal welfare provisions. (It might be helpful to to get OL totally out of the scene first also). In negotiating with these folk standing by, waiting to pounce on you, you are building your own end, no matter what terms are agreed upon. First things first!!! "

how cute is that, looks like a big bambi type chihuahua https://www.google.com.au/search?q=bambi+type+chihuahua&client=firefox-b&tbm=isch&tbo=u&source=univ&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwjVw62ZsKnQAhWBHZQKHRV-CTwQsAQIHg&biw=1920&bih=971#imgdii=TGudzSUQ4WgU3M%3A%3BTGudzSUQ4WgU3M%3A%3BbFATbYm9Blvx2M%3A&imgrc=TGudzSUQ4WgU3M%3A check out this link. my favorites are 1, 5, 14, 20 and 21, although 37 might be a ring in as a litter mate for yours. a few ring ins though 15 is too domey to classify as bambi type, as for 23 hilarous somehow I dont think a wolfhound look qualifies, 24 head too domed, 25 hilarious just to mention a few

Maddy if you are so sure that some know that some others are drowning puppies ,how do you think they know this and how many breeders that you know drown puppies have you reported? You cant just rock up and say I think they are routinely drowning puppies and its not something that a breeder brags about. You can say that s not that sire and its easily proven via DNA so if you know its happened then have you reported it ?.How do you know someone else is aware of it or that its not just gossip? If you know these things and dont report them then why are you less guilty of someone else who you think may know something .Why would a greyhound breeder drown puppies? Regarding your question of why I haven't reported things.. as I mentioned several times, many of the issues are not against any rules. Bosley's mum had litter after litter with epileptic pups and there is no rule or law against creating that misery. As for speaking out about it, I don't mean to sound snarky but what on Earth do you think I'm doing in this thread? And yes, HazyWal understood what I meant. She and I don't necessarily agree on many of the points of this issue but at least she doesn't base arguments off entirely incorrect interpretations of what I'm saying :/ Steve, using previous posts to back up something that you misunderstood does not make you right. I asked (and I thought I was perfectly clear) what you would do if you knew of an ANKC breeder doing something that was either A) Ethically very questionable or B) an actual breach of rules. I'm not talking about greyhound breeders drowning puppies, nor do I believe it likely to occur. You misinterpreted my post and instead of just acknowledging that, you felt the need to try to prove yourself right, even though I'm telling you that you weren't. And asal.. there are no words for how misinformed and ignorant you are in this discussion. This is going to be my last reply to you because pro or anti, my patience gets very short with those who to turn reasonable discussions into circuses. You are only NOW explaining to me what you meant and just because you thought it was perfectly clear that doesnt make it that it was perfectly clear to me. I wasn't using a previous post to do what you accuse me of I was using it as a way of explaining why I thought you were saying what I thought you were. Now I know what you were saying I apologise that I didn't get it at the time . How the hell was I supposed to know if my interpretation was right or Hazywal had it right until you clarified it? Unless Ive missed something this is the first time you have clarified it. Im sorry that I took your question the wrong way. Obviously I have some other things confused because all I see is a whole group of people being judged as complicent because they didn't stand up and report those that you say they knew were doing the wrong thing. But the some of the wrong things you seem to have wanted them to report were not reportable and I believe that many did report the things that were against the rules and illegal. Self regulation meant it was covered up and corrupt. Just as the grey industry has codes and rules and regs so does the ANKC and there are many things that are considered ethical as per the code of ethics for the state CCs that I believe are not ethical and lots of things that happen in the rescue arena that I dont think are ethical To a point that the MDBA was born because I also learned that some things are not against the law or codes and even those that are can be pretty hard to prove, and the bullies who want to keep the status quo are pretty scary, but just the same were so unacceptable that something needed to be done. excellent reply Steve. as for that comment Maddy That is your opinion,(and that does not necessarily make you right, nice as it might be to think you and you alone can see the glorious truth of your version of the truth) but denigrating me to the degree nothing I say is valid, does not change the fact you want to blanket punish all for the sins of a few. As Steve said by what right were you given to judge them as complicit of crimes this majority were probably unaware of? Are you campaigning just as hard for the churches being disbanded because so many priests and ministers were complicit in the actions of the pedephiles in their ranks? Same scenario no matter how you want to paint it. But then children don't deserve you interest or protection, they might grow up to abuse animals? Yet research points that those who don't kill themselves (stats reveal 70% do not live to see 30) turn to their pets for comfort. They certainly dont get that from the church I increasingly get the impression the Animal Rights people for whatever reasons in their past hate their own species, so to destroy a majority to punish a minority where animals rights are concerned doesn't concern them at all because they have no sympathy or concern for the mental health of others of their species unless they are as like minded as yourself

finally a voice of sanity, BUT has it a snowballs chance in hell of making a difference is the question.

Do you mean easy/easier care? You appear to be arguing that some degree of neglect is OK in this breed. When I had a series of surgeries, my tibbies soon develop significant matted lumps in their leg area & under their ears. Other family members hadn't realised the need for regular coat care. My Swedish-born tibbie with a far denser coat is particularly vulnerable. But, on that occasion, even my less dense Australian-bred tibbie, had nasty, uncomfortable thick lumps... which were the devil to get off. And horrible for her. If someone owns tibetan spaniels, no matter who & how many, if they can't or won't do regular grooming, then they should either keep them entirely clipped... or not own the breed at all. Wtf no ! I don't like to see any level of 'neglect' of any dogs coat care. I guess I was coming at it from the angle of being a dog groomer for over 30 yrs and dealing with all sorts of breeds, coats, and levels of care and neglect of all manner of pets. I suppos I was saying that IF neglected, the coat of a Maltese or a poodle etc would become more matted, more unhygienic more quickly, and harder to fix than a Tibbie or that type of coat. I'm not defending neglect! Eta I can see how these bloody rspca cases get legs when I get bashed up for simply talking about a coat type and breed. ffs I'm not defending neglect. dont hurt yourself gruff please. what we need is new laws, anyone that finds their dog has matted for whatever reason needs to turn themselves in, and accept the full force of the law. if the law states the coat must be groomed no less and once a week, if they for any reason cannot groom it themselves they have 48 hours to book it into a groomer or turn themselves in. problem solved. I do mean that tongue in cheek but I suppose it will be taken seriously by AR though. I had the most wonderous poodle, only needed grooming once a month unless she got wet and rolled in the mud that is. glorious harsh coat. you dont see it that often do u gruff

Do you mean easy/easier care? You appear to be arguing that some degree of neglect is OK in this breed. When I had a series of surgeries, my tibbies soon develop significant matted lumps in their leg area & under their ears. Other family members hadn't realised the need for regular coat care. My Swedish-born tibbie with a far denser coat is particularly vulnerable. But, on that occasion, even my less dense Australian-bred tibbie, had nasty, uncomfortable thick lumps... which were the devil to get off. And horrible for her. If someone owns tibetan spaniels, no matter who & how many, if they can't or won't do regular grooming, then they should either keep them entirely clipped... or not own the breed at all. of if they are spotted before you do, and have time to remove them, they should be seized and you publicly shamed prior to the pending trial?????????? if significant lumps that cause discomfort, pain and/or affect movement are found....it would mean I hadn't spotted them because I was not doing the regular monitoring & coat care required. I'd then have no one else to blame if the RSPCA took them into care. The aim would be to immediately treat the dogs. Extent of culpability would depend on particular circumstances....like if an owner were lying ill in hospital. I repeat, I do not have access to photos & evidence that the RSPCA collected in the particular case. That is what counts when a court deliberates this case. You are hell bent on defending the owner at any cost which you're free to do. However, I can neither accuse nor defend her because I don't have access to the evidence (another broken record). Shall leave you to it. what i defend and dislike is anyone can be so shamed publicly if the rspca is involved, no no such thing happens if its a police matter. we do not know, how badly such stress will effect that person, I still remember the lady politician in SA who someone decided to say was gay, she was so distressed she killed herself. it later transpired the accuser had no idea whether the accusation was true or not, done under the argument of all's fair in an election