asal

thanks Troy I forgot that. anyway 2000 to 2500 for not even dna profiled is pretty amazing

Is there any recommended prices? For the various breeds? I noticed in the Dogzonline litters for sale in Cattle dogs, two breeders are asking 1,000 each for their puppies. Others dont put the price . This add is among others on gumtree and interestingly realised are not even ankc registered? They are advertised as ACD's yet all described as stumpy tails? as anyone who knows cattle dogs, stumpy's do not have black and tan on them.

well at least its not a horse doing it. Had a stallion I am sure thought he was a dog played the same games. gets a bit trying when its 400 kg your trying to get to move in the direction you want

Could be wrong but I think? The bitch has to be in her name before its mated?

last but not least. Lets address the hyprocity of the thought police. according to the ankc's very own code of ethics. "10. A Member shall not breed a bitch that results in it whelping more than six times without prior veterinary certification of fitness for further breeding and without prior approval of the Board of Directors except under extenuating circumstances where application for registration of the litter may be considered by the Board of Directors." What does this mean? That a bitch may have 6 litters. But according to the self appointed thought police of which there are many here on this forum. anyone who breeds more than one or two litters. three is going to get them suspicious your now passed the pale into the puppy farmer ranks. Who are these thought police? Members who keep themselves busy checking litter registrations and get busy dialing the rspca and the ankc liason officer when they decide a member has passed their parameters despite the fact the target is fully within the actual ankc "code of practice". How to I know they are fellow members? Well the fellow breed club member who dialed the rspca that had my Stringy stolen was heard boasting at a show she had done it and would keep dialing until something was found to have me charged and thus my membership cancelled. Others at shows have been heard boasting they have done the same thing. the thought police are not silent over their perceived "successes" The intention is the stress will encourage the target to cancel their membership. The thought police will then be celebrating the elimination of yet another backyard/ puppy farmer from their pristine ranks. What I find amusing. Is many of them are being just as scrutinised by other self appointed thought police for elimination too. The AR nutters are laughing their heads off at at stupidity of their targets , they are the ones who began the "we must get rid of back yard breeders" " must get rid of puppy farmers" in the 1980's. When I heard my friends saying it to each other even then, I looked at them in dismay, I asked dont you realise every one of you have what outside your back door? You are all eligible to be targeted for elimination? then as now, too many are totally blind to that? Well what I saw comming has come to pass. What do I see as what is going to happen? Dogs NSW I think has already seen it coming. They changed their public name from RNSWKC to DogsNSW to be seen as more relevant to ALL dog owners both registered and unregistered. I expect they will move to embrace all dog owners and encourage membership of unregistered dogs owners for social events as for the studbook it will be a small side part as it shrinks perhaps they will allow grading up for the unregistered purebreds as they did for the Australian Stumpy tailed cattledog? who knows. but if they dont many breeds are going to disappear.

On or before ( I forget the exact date) 2010 Dogs nsw brought in the rule that before you could apply for a prefix. You must be a Dogs NSW member for 12 months first. Then and only then can you sit the exam which once passed you may then, and only then apply for your breeders prefix. Not sure when they make it that you still could not until you owned a registered bitch in your name. so lets go to the experience of my friend Lorraine. she had purchased a male and female . loved them so much decided she wanted to breed and bought a second girl. Is told the new rules in 2010. the assistant at the desk asked her did she want to breed and thus join as a full member or just show her dogs. I was not present when she went to the office to apply for membership , although I dont have a legal degree, I hope I would have twigged it was a loaded question. Lorraine didnt. when she told the assistant she was going to show them the assistant signed her up as an associate member. Her pups were at this stage 6 months old and the younger one 3 months. We had great fun showing hers and mine over that year and when she renewed her membership asked to sit the breeders exam. To her dismay she was told she could not because she "is only an associate member"? She tried to ask well why didnt the assistant tell me this last year when I applied? she asked could she pay the extra so her membership for the previous year was full instead of associate? But nope she had to become a full member and wait another year. Her two eldest would by then be 2 1/2 years old the youngest 2 1/4 years old. well dogs will be dogs and over the preceding extra year, Lightning managed to outsmart her and a litter was on the way so she was pretty panicked. She so wanted to register her puppies. But the thought police had put in place this inflexible rules to eliminate newbies from becoming a registered breeder "for their own good". Frankly I knew what a total mess this was going to do to Dogs NSW. They did it to appease the AR nutters to prove they were only letting the most ethical, responsible people become a registered breeder . To eliminate the people who in enthusiasm of getting their first purebred, becoming a member, registering and prefix and breeding a litter in the first year of becoming a member. What the board should have already known, (a survey some years prior and told them LOUD AND CLEAR. the bulk of their income was from newbies who did not remain long term members after the initial enthusiasm wore off. breeding can be devastating when things go wrong. The survey proved that the major income was from short term newbies. Yet they chose to eliminate them by instigating these rules. Well lets get back to Lorraine. she has a litter on the way that cannot be registered? What can she do? Become an unregistered backyarder? So I offered to register the pups for her under my prefix. so they were not lost to the breed. fast forward the next year, she has now moved inland and when she is now eligible to sit the exam is informed. sorry you cant sit it via the net, you have to come to head office? So as she could not get there due to nursing a family member she could not. I am pretty sure this scenario of disaster is not restricted to just my friend. all you need to do is go look at the litter registration's continual fall from then to now along with the corresponding membership free fall. The board in their zeal to prove to the ar nutters how "ethical and responsible " they are, sowed the seeds to the ankc's destruction In a nation of over 28 million people that according to their own statistics compiled in 2016 still not heed their own research? "Lets do the Math ! Estimated Australian Dog Population 4.8 million A conservative estimate is that due to mortality 10% need to be replaced annually which indicates a demand for 480,000 puppies per year In 2016 ANKC Ltd Breeders registered 71,361 puppies, so to achieve the estimated number required, approximately 408,639 were bred by people outside the ANKC who have no accountability for health or welfare. ANKC Ltd Registered Breeders 71,361 Puppies* Unregistered Breeders 408,639 Puppies * Source- ANKC Ltd Database" To read it all and shake your head that they still continued to strangle any chance of ankc puppies filling the ever widening void their AR nutter induced rules were causing. Here is the entire document. http://ankc.org.au/media/6598/a-forensic-view-of-puppy-breeding-in-australiav4.pdf The freefall as a result has many breeds numbers so low they are eligible for endangered status. We long term members and there are precious few of them. Many of my friends have voiced my own thoughts, "is the most important requirement of becoming and ankc member today stupidity? Will the board wake up before its too late? P.S. What happened to my friend? Still stuck outback so still never allowed to apply for a prefix. foolish me began registering her puppies for her. BUT those litters combined with my own brought me to the attention of the thought police who firmly believe anyone who breeds more than 2 or at most three litters a year is a puppy farmer which needs to be eliminated from the membership. so end up being inspected by both dogs nsw and the rspca. Incredibly stressful the looks I was given when arrived. It was nice after the dogsnsw rep thawed and complimented me on the quality of my dogs. But the stress is appalling. As for the rspca yes I passed their POCTA with all ticks. but after reading the entire pages of ticks. Realised I was now offically in the eyes of the government and the rspca had just been signed off as a compliant puppy farmer. Which folks is exactly what the ankc thought police intend eliminating from the pristine ethical, responsible ranks? so im dead in the water where they are concerned. As is every member inspected and passed. so where do we stand? The ankc thought police along with the ankc wish to eliminate all puppy farms from their ranks. yet if you dont pass the pocta requirements the rspca will take your dogs? this is a case of caught between the devil and the deep blue sea is it not? My vet told me in 2017 he gives the ankc 10 years max before its insolvent due to imploding income from registered litters.

Yes they finally caught on they had necked themselves making people wait 12 moths to "prove" they are ethical

too funny, we all know that already nice they now have it official

the half wits did it to placate the AR nutters without understanding their agenda is the extinction of domestic animals. soooo over the last five to ten years they have eliminated 90% of potential ANKC members and sent the membership numbers and the gene pool of the breeds into endangered figures. as a friend said, these days stupidity seems the first requirement of an ankc member She is incredibly fortunate to have one on mains register. so few breeders will main register a pup now. Because being a dead end kennel is viewed as the epitome of responsibly ethical. no disgusting puppy farmer will get their hands on my bloodline and neither can anyone else? so sad how horrible people are to each other these days. Seems the human condition is geared to join witch hunts without realising they too fit the parameters for a disgusting backyarder (we all have a backyard pet!) or even worse a puppy farmer (yet to pass that POCTA inspection you have just been signed off as complying to what? the parameters for a puppy farm?) worlds gone mad

Actually many "breed" societies embrace "grading up" to "purebred" status. the only ones that dont are the Arabian Horse Society and the ANKC's come to think of it. although the ANKC's do embrace grading up occasionally, dont forget the opening of the stud book for stumpy tailed cattledogs. I expect many "breeds" will be needing to do this in the future if they are to survive

when I was young it was called the dog in the manger mentality. it doesnt want to eat the hay but no one else can have it or use it. Your words "evil" is spot on Sandgrubber but the thought police have sanitised it by conversion to "ethical, responsible.. I am so over what has happened The ankc's are being destroyed from within Along with of course the gene pool new members are supposed to be working to not only preserve but pass on to the future. Well that was what the ankc's were meant to be doing, maintain stud book and encourage new members. Now of course anyone who wants to apply for a prefix is viewed with suspicion as a potential puppy farmer eager to destroy the show worlds exclusive reputation. about as welcoming as a block of ice as I and so many have learned the hard way. Attract the attention of the self appointed thought police will end in heartache and humiliation. Even the board members are busy writing codes of ethic's on the assumption todays members cannot be trusted for care for their pets properly or can be trusted to even tell the truth about the parentage of the puppies they breed? Even if they only own one male anyway. we now live in a world of guilty until proven innocent at your expense. I do not like this new world at all. murderers and pedophiles have more rights to innocent. until proven guilty. Even then innocent after parole too? You give up a lot if you choose to have a pet today. You are open to accusations of being an abuser. You become a potential disgusting puppy farmer if you apply to become an ankc member and have the hide to want to apply for a prefix. So you give up even more freedom if your membership is approved and have a prefix. the spotlight is firmly on and you are subject to to raids without warning as the thought police get busy dialing in hopes charges will follow. But the pressure gets rid of many anyway thanks to the shame and humiliation of neighbours and friends raised like us all that where the rspca turns up, where their's smoke there's fire. mean while the thought police who think their dedication to breeding and showing to Ch on the front of their darlings names were busy creating the wonderful health wreaks featured on Pedigree Dogs Exposed? So blind to the mess they were making so busy improving on features that became so exaggerated the AR rights nutters have had a field day. I am only repeating the history as its happened. Sadly I have no idea if the self destruction can be turned around. My Vet and many of my vet friends do not see it can happen. Only time will tell the end of this story

had a chi girl who just got so excited she trampled to death her first litter and when she had her second was no better. nancys vet gave her a sedative. no memory what it was. but ask your vet, she slept like a log, puppies had great feed so got all their colostrum and gave her less the next day and the next. by then she was cool with having a real LIVE litter and was wonderful mum from then on, and didnt forget when she had her second litter was top notch mum no sedation needed. Lot to learn breeding is not always like the books say

Very disheartening. but we were warned in a way. when a chap like Leon Mills. and ex public prosecutor can submit this during the waterways enquiry. even have his letter on public access via the Hansard and nothing came of it. makes u wonder what chance we small fry ever had eh? That NSW State Govt enquiry received a copy of this letter as well, but doesn't seem to have had any impact. Or I noted the Murray Grey stud owners sent so much detail of their life's destruction. Anyone who suffers seems to just be collateral damage? to be ignored 3rd June 2010 The Honorable Members General Purpose Standing Committee No.5 Inquiry into the R S P C A raid on the Waterways Wildlife Park Dear Members, My full name is Leon Andrew Mills and I have resided in Gunnedah since 1982, I moved to Gunnedah as a result of my applying for the Police Prosecutors position for the Gunnedah Local Court Circuit. I continued in that position until my retirement in 2006. In 2008 I stood in the Local Government elections and was successful in gaining office as a Gunnedah Shire Councillor. I am still in that position today. The two submission I would like the Honorable Committee to consider are that the compliance section of the RSPCA 9RSPCA Inspectors) be disbanded and that all the duties that they try to perform in relation to the investigation and brief preparation for alleged offences under the Prevention of Cruelty to Animals Act 1979 (the Act), be given to sworn Constables of the NSW Police Force in particular the Rural Crime Unit. My second submission is that all prosecutions under the Act be done by Police Prosecutors in the Local Court jurisdiction. RSPCA Inspectors obtain their powers s a result of being issued an Authority under .section 4D(2) of the Act. In relation to this Inquiry it is clear that Inspectors Prowse and French have no idea of their powers. I say that on this basis, the Act is clear in relation to what an inspector can do and is set out in Division 2 of the Act. On the Friday following the taking of the Koalas a report was broadcast on the 6.30am local A B C News that Officer Prowse said the reason for taking the Koalas was that they were “stressed”. There is no power under the Act to take an animal that is stressed. It alledging distress, as referred to in Section 24H subsection (5) of the Act, there is no evidence at all that any of these animals were suffering debility, exhaustion or significant physical injury. To support what I am submitting, the Honorable Committee would note that the Officers examined the Koalas at about 10.30-11am. They gave no treatment to these Koalas from that time until after 4.30pm, why? There was nothing wrong with them, and of course we are talking about Officers that would be expected to take immediate action if an animal was suffering debility, exhaustion or significant physical injury. These two Officers had to do something and they illegally removed these Koala for the sole purpose of the T V show R S P C A Animal Rescue. To further support this submission the head of the R S P C A Mr Steve Coleman said no proceedings would be taken against Nancy Small as a result of community outrage. I completely reject this statement. As a former Police Prosecutor of 28 years both in the city and country on rare occasions there is community outrage when some proceedings are taken. I have never before heard of proceedings for a criminal matter being abandoned or not brought because of community outrage. The reason there were no proceedings brought was that there was nothing wrong with these animals. Offences under the act are Criminal. Officers French and Prowse were supposed to be “investigating” this matter. It is interesting to note the quality of this so called investigation. No interview with Nancy Small or any other carers of these Koalas. No exhibits such as, stool samples, feed provided in the Koala enclosure, photos for identifications of each Koala, no tagging for identification. When one looks at the R S P C A Seizure Notice re this matter S N 010 16 the Officers have not even identified the Koalas to the extent of their sex. This so called investigation is absolutely pathetic and shows the quality of how RSPCA inspectors carry out their duties. The N S W police have a branch now called the Rural Crime Unit these branches operated both in the city and country. They are staffed by sworn Police who have been fully trained in investigation techniques. Many of these Officers are fully trained Detectives. It would be my respectful submission that these officers should take over the compliance section of the R S P C A. Of course it would require extra staff and resources. It would be my suggestion that appropriate funding could be transferred from the funding the State Government gives to the R S P C A to the Police Budget. Another benefit of a transfer to Police is that all Police investigations are subject to review by independent authorities such as the Ombudsman or I C A C. This is not the case with R S P C A inspectors, they answer to no one other than themselves. On the 18th of February last I attended the local branch meeting of the R S P C A as the head of the organization Mr Steve Coleman was attending. During the course of the meeting he answered a number of questions re the Waterways incident. Mrs. Dodd asked him a question being, “who can I complain to”, Mr Coleman’s response was “the Chief Inspector of the RS S P C A”. From a community point of view in this day and age it is totally unacceptable that we have an organization such as this that when a complaint comes in they investigate themselves. The subject Koalas were living in a happy well cared for environment when they were illegally removed by Inspectors French and Prowse. One of the females had a baby Koala in her pouch that Mrs Small was aware of. I have been told that the R S P C A Inspectors became aware of this fact over the 48 hours following their removal. One of the other Koalas was an elderly female that Mrs Small has described as the “Old Lady”. Mrs Small has never denied that this Koala was elderly and whilst ever in good health could live out her days in the Koala Enclosure. Both these Koalas that were supposed to being cared for by Inspectors French and Prowse are now dead so I ask this question what investigation has the RSPCA done in relation to the deaths of these Koala or am I correct in assuming that when an animal dies because of the ignorance or lack of care by that inspector no investigation takes place. This is another example as to why the Police should take over these responsibilities so that when this type of incident occurs it can be properly investigated or reviewed by an appropriate authority. I referred earlier in this document to the fact that prior to my retirement I was the police Prosecutor for the Gunnedah Court Circuit. During the 1980’s and 1990’s and in some cases still to this day besides representing Police informants in Court Police prosecutors represent many other entities, for example, Probation and Parole, National Parks and Wildlife, D O C S, Roads and Traffic Authority and the RSPCA. Over the years until about 2000, every so often I would receive a brief from an RSPCA Inspector who would be the informant usually in more than one information. If the matter was a “not guilty” plea I would present the case on behalf of the informant. If the offence or offences were proved some costs would be sought by the Informant that would usually be for witness expenses and any fodder that may have been required to give to the animals in question. No Legal professional costs were ever sought. In addition a fact I feel is relevant is that Police Prosecutors DPP Prosecutors and Crown Prosecutors have a duty to place all the evidence before the Court. Each carries a custodial penalty of 2 years imprisonment. True there is a difference in the monetary penalty but goal is the most severe penalty for a Criminal Offence. A common assault is one where the victim suffers no serious injury. For some reason the Parliament does not view aggravated cruelty as a serious offence at law. The RSPCA since about 2000, to my knowledge, have been engaging private solicitors to conduct their prosecutions and one might ask why did they move to this system. It is my submission that this practice should cease and that Police Prosecutors should conduct the prosecutions for the RSPCA. I say that on this basis. By engaging private Solicitors or barristers there is no obligation on them to place before the Court evidence that may disadvantage their case. Legal and Professional Costs come into play. If their prosecution is successful they would ask for these costs. It seems unbelievable that recently in one of their prosecutions at Narrabri an amount in excess of a quarter of a million dollars was sought for costs in a matter heard in the Local Court, and as I said before, an offence not serious at law. In conclusion it is my humble opinion that inspectors French and Prowse have no knowledge in respect to their obligations under the Act and it is clear they see their careers more in the field of TV and to add insult to injury when asked a question by myself about the TV show RSPCA Animal Rescue and their role in this incident when he attended Gunnedah on the 18th February last, Mr Coleman’s explanation was and I quote, “the Officers had been on another job with them and when they said they were going to Gunnedah the crew said we might just tag along” end quote. I informed him that I did not accept that explanation at all. It’s a sad situation when the head of such an organization is trying to assist the coverup. Yours faithfully Leon Mills Councilor Gunnedah Shire Council

What breed is your puppy? Some breeds are prone to it Especially short face breeds As my vet explained. The shorten the muzzle but the tongue and the teeth stay the same size as does the palette. Result tongue more comfortable to let hang out. Palette drops down n dog snorts/chokes as it obstructs airway. Why so many French Bulldogs need theirs shortened

oh darn I had totally forgotten this until this morning. would have saved you all that money. Sorry For anyone else out there with a puppy whose under canines are not clearing the jaw and the points are touching the roof of the mouth. I remembered today what my friend Nancy did. she would massage the sides of the offending lower canines every day, morning. noon and afternoon, A puppy's teeth are as movable as yours if you wiggle them. they can be massaged sideways until they move to the sides and no longer pointing into the bottom of the jaw. she began when the puppy was 6 to 8 weeks, then when the baby teeth fell out she would massage the new canines to the sides as they grew so they too were moved to the side as they grew and thus cleared the jaw. when the sides of the lower canines have cleared the sides of the jaw, the inner incisors cannot touch the roof of the mouth to cause discomfort either. yes it takes patience. but it sure saves you a heck of a lot of money in specialist dentistry. play with your own teeth. put pressure. release. put pressure, release. you can make your teeth move and loosen them even your adult teeth if you keep at it. puppies bones and teeth are far softer and moveable as I saw Nancy prove with that pup. was so long ago forgot about it until today. will see if I can find photos and if so will post them

the colour BLUE.......... already shows its Main. as well LIMIT is orrible orange how odd this topic is up twice. this photo is on the other one if you missed it

There you go. Blue you have the real deal. You would be amazed how many people buy a puppy and think that the microchip paperwork is their puppies "registration papers" with not a clue That a pedigree pup comes with a real Pedigree certificate. Congratulations.

Coalition For the Protection of Racehorses - Exposed 6 h · DISGRACEFUL MAIL THREATS FROM ANIMAL ACTIVISTS In a very concerning development, we have been sent the following mail sent anonymously to an equestrian horse business in Victoria. If you have also been targeted and threatened or know of others who have, please contact your local police enforcement for investigation. Please spread this message around to help identify the culprits and all the victims. The friend who sent me this thinks its only to threaten people with horses? Looks to me like it encompasses anyone with a domestic animal of any species?

NO point guessing. get out the phone book and look up Pet Transport companies and ask for quotes

cheaper if you already have your own transport pet carrier. sometimes if its a big one they will let two go together, doubt they will permit 3 though. friend moved to nz and back again. heaps cheaper when he reused the original crates Call them and get quotes. Also if you dont already have crates. Either look for someone selling a crate who's imported a dog recently otherwise, it does tend to be cheaper buy the crate from the carrier rather than rent it. great for sleeping in in the car while travelling. n can resell if you want to.

sent you a message click on the kennel name I send you. she breeds glorious dogs as you will see in the photos

just posted by a friend on face plant, she is in America and it also happened to her. so true of the effects on the target owners. Sharing from a friend, who was a victim in a home invasion which ruined her life in every aspect. The men who did the home invasion on me TRIED to ruin my life in every aspect, but failed sufficiently enough that I am fighting back. "WHAT PRICE WOULD YOU PAY FOR YOUR DIGNITY ? My dear friends, once again, I feel the need to share. I am one of many countless thousands of people who have been targeted in " a scandal". Guilty or not, we all are infected with permanent and terminal harm to our very core. I have listened to people's takes on recent home invasions (I will NOT call them a raid) and the removal of their animals. In 2020, even people in the know bubble over with gossip, invented stories about the targeted victim and IT SPREADS LIKE WILDFIRE. This situation is unimaginable ......until it happens to you. Recently, someone asked me what my biggest loss was. The absence of my dogs is palpable, every day, the loss of my home a knife to my heart. However, the realization that I will never again be able to hold my head high, nor be proud of my name makes one feel very very small, insignificant and ashamed. DIGNITY is a precious commodity and the ultimate treasure in ARs efforts to sway public opinion and justify each illegal seizure of our animals. There is a very small percent of the population that is supportive (maybe even pities ) of the victims but the vast majority of people look for any opportunity to re-injure, shame and display a little bit of momentary bravado in their conjured new accusations. AR is the prime example of this. Recently, the Governor of NH used scenes from my home invasion for his reelection campaign with the support of AR groups. MANY MANY photos are published on TV and other media from years ago, manipulated photos. Lets be BETTER than them, extend your hand,don't share gleefully on FB I can't begin to tell you the harm you are inflicting. Compassion is the only pain medication I know of that might help that targeted victim. They have lost everything and their pain will be life long. Whether they are guilty or not, send a virtual message just letting them know they are not alone. The real irony is, we (those devoted to their animals) would NEVER treat them as we treat each other. Evolution, that's the ticket. Lets evolve to the point where we extend our hand to abused people as well."

sent you a pm

why are you ignoring the fact that the teeth do no need to be pulled out? they can be cut and then the jaw will not risk being damaged. so my vets advise comes under "some random people" if they dont agree with the high dollar alternatives by some self labeled "specialist" ? my friend would have been paying $7000 for that elbow op the "specialist" intended to do to broken bones? my other friend ended up losing $12,500 to save her cat, because she thought her "specialist" vet knew better than the life experience vets who do not choose to put "specialist" on their logo? Who have told me 20 years ago annual vaccinations are over vaccinating and risking complications and not necessary. As one of them said to me. "They get out of uni with their BvSc Degree certificate to learn at your expense". the highest price does not necessarily mean the highest level of experience. I'm not sure you are allowed to name living vets My vets included Professor Dave Hutchens ("Prof") OAM BVSc, Hon DVSc, the man who eradicated Equine Influenza from Australia, the only continent to eradicate it. LOL our pollies didn't know what a determined man they had appointed to the Quarantine dept. He locked Australia down without even consulting them first. Amazing special man ‘The Prof’They might not remember all of their time as vet science students at Camden, but most of them, even those who were only interested in small animals, will remember ‘The Prof’. This man stood out from the crowd. He was slight in stature but huge in the effect he had on students. He demonstrated an extraordinary diagnostic ability across species, a discerning eye to pick the most subtle of clinical signs, an agile, flexible and energetic mind which could always think outside the square, and the dogged tenacity to persevere when things did not go right. He had a wisdom, a certain philosophical approach and said on many occasions ‘the mark of a man is how he copes with his failures rather than his successes’." Bob Rawlinson BVSc DVR FACVSc and Dr Percy Sykes AM MRCVS MACVSc, (the chap who invented among other things, yellow lotion). When Percy asked me why haven't I seen you for ages? I told him I had moved so had to find a new vet, when I named him his comment was "Ah the best one that got away!"... When I asked him what he meant, it turned out he used to work for Percy when he first left Uni after graduating. but decided to start his own practice out my way where I had moved to. High praise indeed. These are the kind of people you dismissed with your words "not random people on the internet and breeders who don’t have training in veterinary dentistry" Never saw them use the words "specialist"

except it seems its the "specalist clinic" that wants to surgically remove her puppy teeth that will fall out naturally anyway? It was a "specalist clinic" that could not diferentiate between elbow displacia and them actually being fractured? A nice sign is not the guarantee so many assume. Another friend always uses a high profile "specalist clinic" when dear one developed pneumonia after his latest yearly vaccination, I suggested she stop annually vaccinating him, he was now 16 and it was known they do not need annual vaccinations. (Both dogs and cats, incidentally) It cost 1500 to save him from that initial reaction. Next year she again received her reminder and took him back. It cost 4,000 to save him from the next reaction. Again I told her, DONT DO IT AGAIN. so fast forward ... it cost her 7,000 to save him and this third time even the specialists suggested perhaps the vaccine was the problem... he then lived hale and hearty to 20. Dear one was a cat. but specialist vets treat both dogs and cats, so they make mistakes with both breeds it seems take a good look at the roof of her mouth, is it bleeding from them perforating the roof of her mouth? even if it is, which I greatly doubt. Ive seen puppies with this and the top of the mouth indents where the teeth are touching it, the previous advice to have them cut is far less damaging to the baby jaw bones than surgery of deciduous teeth in a rapidly growing jaw which as others have noted can continue to grow and end up with the adult teeth going to the sides as they emerge. I know two, do just that as their adult teeth came up. also as others have noted, others with a perfect scissor bite at 8 weeks when their adult teeth have come in have over or under bite. Man proposes, God disposes. Then its up to us to deal with the results we didnt expect