asal

We will all go down the gurgler because of their stupidity. Many of us live in other states, and why would we attend something that we believe will harm us. We have complained about farms and complained bitterly. Their are other people also working on the puppy farm situation not only you. Don't any of you dare take a holier than thou attitude with those that work so hard to eradicate puppy farmers. Never have any registered breeders said they don't support you in your efforts over puppy farms. What we don't support is that we as breeders are being included in all and sundry. Some of you have only scratched the surface, but some of us have dug deeper. Some of us have been through things like this before and been caught and we don't intend to get caught again. We can appreciate your feelings over puppy farms and will stand firm with you as our feelings are the same. It is some of you that have no appreciation for the way registered breeders feel about us being included. And included we have been. Have a thought for us as we can end up losing out big time.... Our dogs. Most registered breeders are the least of your worries. If we go, where do you get healthy, home reared, health tested puppies from ?. I am so angry that a group of people could cause me to lose the thing that I love...breeding a better dog than the litter before. Just because you have no foresight in the matter, and can't see that this will turned around and come back to bite us all. aint going to work set out to destroy p f's and you ultimately destroy your self. how? you think your ethical, who says other registered breeders do? every witchhunt, every pogram ie spanish inquisition, saw thousands of innocents die. considering today we know witches dont exist any more than santa clause is still here and delivering presents. every witch that died did so because somone didnt like em how confident are any of you that everyone in this world likes u? find out soon enough when u discover yr tied at the stake this time instead of among the crowd watching the latest burn . remember every one of those "witches" was once living their life same as u, well until they were decided to be witches

ANKC breeders are dropping like flies already. There are 30,000 a year fewer ANKC pups born today than 30 years ago! Yet the number of dogs being born is escalating every year. Estimated at over 1 million dogs born a year, of which only 60,000 are ANKC dogs. ANKC breeders are already a tiny minority in the world of dog breeding. I think you are right, the only people who will breed dogs if things keep going the way they are now will be businesses. They will be highly regulated puppy mills that can afford to breed dogs under systems that make it difficult for those not cashed and lawyered up. If they would put up a bill that just banned pet shop sales (yes include internet and other forms of advertizing if that seem right) and do not add on anything else to the bill. It would pass. This would wipe out most puppy farms or at least take away much of their sales. At any rate, I remain optimistic. I am envisioning a future about 20 years from now. A secret underground network of (old fashion) dog breeders. They never sell their dogs. They breed very rarely, keeping the pup they want and place the others with trusted friends and other breed fanciers. Keeping a small gene pool going of selected lines of their breed going forward. When this happens, will you few remaining purebred dog owners let me know, I want in! LOL LOL all right, thats pretty much what it will be

fun aint it they sooooo dont understand who hvnt been there

things are hotting up, just heard that the legal team “Smyth Wozniak Solicitors” named in that story have served the writer and ruth downey with think it was called? a summons that they have been slandered, (no its a different word but cant remember it) them as if she hasnt enough on her plate to cope with. how is the lady with the debarked dogs in victoria going ???

sadly its not just dogs stolen read this poor lady's story. if u have seen anything like this boy please call the police http://www.horseyard.com.au/index.php?opti...&Itemid=145

Well in actual fact a couple in Japan allowed their baby to die while they played pretend mummy and daddy on their computer with a virtual reality doll. Just because some of us feel that the "mental illness" card has been overplayed, doesn't mean we lack compassion or don't have first hand and/or personal experience. The whole business of not taking responsibility for our own actions has gone too far. Of course there are people with the most ghastly tragic experiences which can cause them to spiral into mental illness and there are people on this forum whose experiences leave me totally aghast that they can still get up in the morning and carry on. How would you feel if someone high on drugs and/or booze rammed into your car and killed or maimed someone you love. Would you be so compassionate then. Because these are the sorts of people who are blaming "mental illness" for their behaviour. Let's get real here. hey the two doctors who left my mother with a broken hip for 3 months when my frantic efforts to get the heath system to address their incompetance what do i get? a letter to state that they have been offered stress counselling????????????? ive been hospatalised twice with what was thought to be heart attacks i was so in agony, n what does the heart specalist finally figure out? overwhelming stress to the degree he tells me i have to give up my fight for accountabality against the doctors or it will kill me. do i get offered free counselling????????? not on your nelly

fish have a death wish dont feel bad.

dont give up, remember my two puppies that were stolen a few years ago? some three months later one was found wandering beside a 3 lane highway 30 k's away. luckily the finder took her to their vet and i was phoned within minutes of them scanning her. that night i couldnt sleep wondering where her sister was and went onto trading post. n what do i see??? her sister in a full colour add. not only got her back but her purchaser, led us to the people who stole her and their arrest and conviction. turned out they were professional house breakers (ie already and three pages of charges n convictions, n at the time think it was 6 arrest warrants out for the hubbby) who decided the puppies looked a quick and easier target. they had come all the way from campbelltown to "work" n sold em at their local market. when i took them to my vet for a checkup he told me of the lady whose stolen champion that had dissappeared from her home 3 years before, had turned up at a vets for stitches, the vet was one who routinely scanns all incomming patients, n discovered the dog was listed as stolen and called the police. pity more vets dont do that eh?

ummm u do have a point dont u steve? hey i found a photo of les at this link, think hes 82 now and that mare is about 14.2 i think, watching him ride mamaluke at sydney royal with his feet below the stallions knees was a hoot, the man could pace it with the man from snowy river though http://www.splitterscreek.com/news%20archives%20d.htm

you havnt met les ellery eh? :) :D

why souf? hush your mouth, its cavalier breeder bashing thread, didnt u know? wheres the great dane one? is there one or have i missed it? know a lady forked out 1500 to 3000 each for her three great danes and NOT ONE OF THEM SAW THEIR 6TH BIRTHDAY. the one she thought had made it when she went to wish her happy birthaday that morning, had died in her sleep. well she did make it to the day before her birthday, the other two didnt umm shouldnt forget my neighbour, 1300 and 1800 for his top quality german shepherds, had to be put down they were so displastic couldnt walk by 12 months? maybe he was the bad one not shelling out the thousands for the ops? ho n my lab friend, 7 dogs and only one sound one at 6 years? then to her horror one of her pups was found to be displastic. funnlily none of the 6 breeders gave any refunds or compensation as is expected nowdays and all were registered breeders, n that applies to the great danes and the german sheps? although my lab friend shelled till it hurt to pay the vet bills for that pup. the parents were xrayed n excellent scores so she gave up

CAVALIER KING CHARLES SPANIEL MMVD PROBLEM If I could mention , here is the Link that gave figure of nearly 100% of Cavaliers having MMVD at 10 years of Age www.eurolupa.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=7&Itemid=8 Bet Hargreaves "WP2.2 Myxomatous mitral valve disease (MMVD) - Leader : University of Copenhagen Primary mitral valve prolapse (MVP also called Barlows disease) is a common disorder in human characterized by systolic displacement or billowing of the mitral leaflets into the left atrium, often accompanied by mitral regurgitation. It has many characteristics similar to MMVD in dogs. MVP is genetically heterogeneous and is inherited as an autosomal dominant trait that exhibits both sex- and age-dependent penetrance. Several loci for mitral valve prolapse (MVP) have been mapped: MMVP1 to chromosome 16p; MMVP2 to chromosome 11p, and MMVP3 to chromosome 13q but due to the limited number of informative individuals/families available no causal genes and mutations have been identified for the corresponding loci. Recently, mutations in filamin A were incriminated in X-linked cases. MMVD is the most common heart disease in dogs. The disease is also known as endocardiosis or chronic valvular disease. It typically evolves in three stages: (i) mitral valve prolapse or thickening of the valve without regurgitation, (ii) mitral regurgitation in the absence of other signs of heart failure, (iii) heart failure. It is easily diagnosed using auscultation and echocardiography. MMVD is characterized by a clear breed predisposition, most often in small to medium size breeds. Nearly 100% of Cavalier King Charles Spaniels (CKCS) suffer from the condition at 10 years of age, while approximately 50% Dachshund have MMVD at the same age. The aim of this study is the identification of genetic factors responsible for the development of MMVD in dogs." sooo if they say so. Its gospel is it? ummm, must be my vet is incompetent then eh? think i'm going to cut and print this, his reaction might be interesting

check out this guys online magazine video of ruths cattle n calves taken before n after n check out the beaver story. ""ONLY ENVIRONMENT ENGINEERS OF THE PUBLIC SERVICE COULD DO THIS" BEAVER'S UNDER THREAT OF JAIL FOR BUILDING DAMS IN USA" definately a tuesday funny http://www.sosnews.org/

and yearly testing all and every one u intend breeding from and when one crops up like the 8 yr old girl, out went her's that i had kept for breeding, as pets only and told their new owners why they were going as pets . n those who had her pups were all warned, although as none have come back to me to say they had developed it young or had problems since? maybe i did a bit of overkill. but when u want to reduce the incidence of something like that, this is how i see it as the way to go but documenting every year. so many get one doppler done and are gaily advertising their dog is tested and "free", well its only valid for they day it was done according to my vet anyway so that test was for that year only kiddo it aint a lifetime "free" test as so many seem to think

how i lucked onto my lot, i had been told cavaliers tended to live to 8 so i went looking for breeder with dogs over 11, pribar had two that were 12 and 13. ok i didnt know about mitral, but hey she had old dogs, and fit as fiddles so that who i went with. trouble is finding someone like that. the othe girl was pure luck, i as approached for a mating to jack, and got a pup from the litter, check out her website, the mum lived to 13 and so has her daughter, i rehomed her ages ago last i heard from her owner was she was 14 n still fine although her last vet check for mitral was at 12 after that she hasnt bothered

before you all go freaking off into the night. of my 5 original cavaliers , 4 were free of any signs of MMVD at 8,,9,10,11,12. one only diagnosed at 8. (she was pet homed to the owner of one of her pups and was still going no medication needed at 11 last i heard from her owner) so that to my bad maths made my purchases 4/5th of em free of it at 12? in the case of Zambuna Cav King Jack he was still hanging in there, n hadnt shrugged off the mortal coil at 15, although (according to the lady i had given him too) he had been pinched by the owners flatmate so no further info as to testing after 12. so that doesnt look like 100 percent incidence to this idiot anyway? three bitches, two of em spot on hearts, n the one with it starting at 8) came from Pribar Kennels and Edenridge Summer Shower was a daughter of Gaycrest Eboni Mist. although i loaned her back to Edenridge and think it was 14 puppies were bred to choose a "show" pup. to my knowledge and belief every single one bar the two i got back were limit registered n pet sold. so no hope of using that line if your looking for MMVD free line. dont know if Pribar is still going. i dont show and after all the crap and risk of ever selling on main register. (check out the pup return for refund because its adult teeth didnt come through as perfect as its puppy teeth? mind u it did win 2 challenges before its return but hey it might not make champion sooooooo n it is main so that meant it would ) no main registers will be available from me anymore. reading that adorable story about the $25,000 cat's vet bills. my first thought was pity the poor bugger who bred it if it had been a registered animal Cavalier's MMVD Heart Problem I know that there will be Cavaliers living to a Normal Age, but until the MMVD Genes are found ,it will not be known if those Cavaliers could be MMVD Carriers. In Britain Cavalier were known to have Died from Heart Trouble in the 1940's and 1950's. It is possible that some of the Cavaliers exported Abroad could have had those Genes from those days . All that is known ,that the MMVD Problem is serious for Cavaliers, and this is why those Genes have to be discoverd. This is the same reason that the Genes for SM in Cavaliers have to be found, . If the Genes are not found for both MMVD and SM the Cavalier Breed could be having a Bleak Outlook for their Future. Bet Hargreaves has it possibly occured to anyone that before dna technology came onto the scene, breeders can detect defective genes and eliminate them? how did these ancient backward people mange the impossible? oddly enough some mugs figured out some genes they didnt want cropping up were dominate and they were easy peasy to get rid of, dont breed from em. they even stupid as they were as well as backward, even figured some genes were recessive and when they popped up both parent were to blame. even in the icelandic 60's genticists had that figured out and even had plans in place to test which males carried the defective genes. not having the wonder dna tool, they used a totaly unethical method. they put aside all females that had produced effected ofspring, these were test mated to the potential males for the next generation, and only the males who did not sire any affected offspring to the carrier females got the opportunity to sire the next generation. done for 6, ideally 12 generations, an odd thing happened. subsequent test matings failed to produce any affected or carriers discovered, impossible u say. surely maybe u are right, nothing like that could be achieved without dna specific tests, certainly not by any ethical breeder, no ethical person would knowingly use a known carrier for breeding. n thus no ethical breeder could eliminate a defective gene without dna. soooooo only ethical breeders wait for the wonder dna test to arrive and pick out their breeding stock for the future. but? if ethical breeders dont breed till the dna test is available, n it takes 4 or 5 years down the track? or worse case scenario 7 or 10? unless theres a lot of fertalised frozen embroyos to implant in something there wont be any breeding stock still fertile? so? where does that put cavalier breeders? breed and your decidedly unethical catch 22

yes your probably right. the ones i had stumbled onto that didnt develop it are no use for breeding a strain that might have a better chance of not developing it. without the dna test to PROVE they havnt the defective gene they are of no possible use or worth or preserving. being cavaliers they must have it eh? why not just bann people from breeding cavaliers until the dna test is found?

what does that make string? alive, yes. one piece, no (two skin plugs removed and stitches instead) healthy, no (pnemonia n trachael tear, according to my vet n 500 later to save him) soooo what does one tick n two crosses come to in the equation

before you all go freaking off into the night. of my 5 original cavaliers , 4 were free of any signs of MMVD at 8,,9,10,11,12. one only diagnosed at 8. (she was pet homed to the owner of one of her pups and was still going no medication needed at 11 last i heard from her owner) so that to my bad maths made my purchases 4/5th of em free of it at 12? in the case of Zambuna Cav King Jack he was still hanging in there, n hadnt shrugged off the mortal coil at 15, although (according to the lady i had given him too) he had been pinched by the owners flatmate so no further info as to testing after 12. so that doesnt look like 100 percent incidence to this idiot anyway? three bitches, two of em spot on hearts, n the one with it starting at 8) came from Pribar Kennels and Edenridge Summer Shower was a daughter of Gaycrest Eboni Mist. although i loaned her back to Edenridge and think it was 14 puppies were bred to choose a "show" pup. to my knowledge and belief every single one bar the two i got back were limit registered n pet sold. so no hope of using that line if your looking for MMVD free line. dont know if Pribar is still going. i dont show and after all the crap and risk of ever selling on main register. (check out the pup return for refund because its adult teeth didnt come through as perfect as its puppy teeth? mind u it did win 2 challenges before its return but hey it might not make champion sooooooo n it is main so that meant it would ) no main registers will be available from me anymore. reading that adorable story about the $25,000 cat's vet bills. my first thought was pity the poor bugger who bred it if it had been a registered animal

n just off the top of my own head i know 4 people can tell the same story of how they were treated n only one of em was actually charged the treatment is pretty accurate from their accounts too

i recommend you make the time to read the lot. this guy had done it the right way. no hysterics just the truth is its damming n sadly true and will continue until maybe some day some one with guts will actually do something and make the bastards answerable, its not a big ask its called democracy. anyone remember that?? its factual, its true its got to get out there.

this should be mandatory reading for every politican being pressured to GIVE US MORE POWER CRAP WHAT THEY HAVE DONE TO RUTH DOWNEY they have been doing for decades and no one will listen to the victums. all they get is "u must have deserved it."

http://sosnews.org/pdf/The-Ruth-Downey-Inquisition.pdf emailed to me,

Id say so - other similar studies have shown people stay in breeding for an average of around 6 years so it looks like this is backing that up. What it means though is that the majority of people who are breeding are at the low end of the experience end. true but try helping them, the majority are polite but not interested, they know it all. read the standard, have the books. who do u think u are? even the nice ones, leave me breathless, just listening to em, selecting "bloodlines" like they think its a cake receipe. one of the reasons the ones ive seen jump, is discovering not all puppies turn out healty and sound. one or two and they get rattled, "ethical breeders dont get this happen" the breeder i got mine from mustnt have been ethical so that ones name becomes mud, n if they are sensitatve they too give up and out. so out goes the dogs, in comes a "better one" usually at great cost, testing etc, n something else gets found, orr whelping problems and one too many midnight runs to the vet sorts a lot out too.

although you spoken well, the last words "but it does take time" do give the idea that in time all genetic disasters can be eliminated. it aint going to happen in our lifetimes if ever. nature likes change, even now mutations are being detected, recent mutations so how long is a piece of string