Dog_Horse_Girl

ILL, I'm so sorry to hear about your loss. And I have also experienced guilt at what I fed my beautiful boy named Aussie. He was a cattle dog cross staffy and he died at 13.5 yrs of age. He was fed on canned and kibble, the lower end products b/c that was within my budget and knowledge at the time. If I'd known then what I know now, I would have fed him a raw diet. But I didn't know and he was fed on cheaper foods (with raw bones a couple of times a week for something to do). He declined in health and well-being rapidly once he turned 12 yrs. He developed canine dementia but we initially put the symptoms down to adding Ruby to the family (she was six months old when we adopted her as a companion for him). When he was almost 13, he lost a lot of weight over a short time, and we naturally took him to the vet. We could have had some tests to determine cause, but the OH was going away and I didn't want to be faced with a difficult decision at that time. Instead, we changed his kibble to a high energy (working breed) formula to get more calories into him, which seemed to stabilise his weight. The vet gave him a course of injections to boost the change in diet (steroids? for memory) which did help a little. Within six months of these initial symptoms, weight loss and cough, Aussie died. He experienced a massive internal bleed and we had to help him cross to the Bridge. I have always suspected intestinal cancer and heart failure as a result of poor nutrition. He apparently had a mid-grade murmur during his last checkup but the vet didn't think to mention it at the time. Had I known better, he would have had a better diet...but I knew very little about canine nutrition and the vets that cared for Aussie never suggested a switch in diet. He always *seemed* to be in good health, but now that our dogs are raw fed, I can honestly say that he could have done much better. BUT it's not worth beating myself up over. He had a great life, and as he was a rescue, it was a miracle he survived at all. We do what we can with what we have. And that's all we can do at the time.

And here I was thinking you were discussing a pet puppy. How silly of me. I should have known you were talking about professional dog handlers from Police dog squads. BTW - I don't see any comparison between the family pet and a Police dog. They are bred for completely different purposes and their training is reflecting that. I'd like to see you train a family pet using Police dog methods and see what kind of dog you would end up with. Perhaps if you wish to discuss dog training in a particular context, it would be worth mentioning that from the outset? BTW - the ppl I've known that raised working dog pups (law enforcement in particular) were just as kind (yet firm) with the baby pup as are ppl that have adopted a family pet. It's only when they get into their actual training that things "toughen up" if you want to look at it like that. But law enforcement places unique requirements on canines that a pet environment never does. Military dog handlers used to take their charges home from work every shift and many of these handlers adopted the "failed" dogs and their "own" dogs upon the dog's retirement. These blokes are the biggest sooks with their dogs when NOT working with the dog. The dogs are smart enough to know what is "work" and what is "recreation" and respond accordingly. Go figure! :D

Could someone please clear this up for me? Isnt RC and Euk super premiums? Im pretty sur they arent just premiums, I use RC, and it is $120 or so a bag, how could it not be a super premium? cheers Nope, read the ingredients lists carefully. Look at the fillers and preservatives for a start. Look at the primary protein source. Check the *quality* of each ingredient...whether it is organic or mass-produced, for example. Price is not the sole indicator of quality when it comes to processed dog foods. It can help sort the good from the bad and the average, but the ingredients list (and knowing how to decipher it) is where you see the real differences between foods of a similar price. Personally, if I were to spend that sort of money on a processed diet, I'd be spending it on Eagle Pack Holistic. But that's my opinion. I find a raw, whole foods diet works better for my dogs anyway, so that's what I do.

I second the suspend things from a tree train of thought...you can buy "pup treads" which are tyre-shaped rubber toys fairly cheaply. Hang a few from strong branches, fill them with something tasty such as PB-laced kibble/biscuits, just above head-height. The pup will spend considerable time emptying the tyres of their goodies. You can do this with kongs as well, suspend them with the large hole at the top. Freezing stuff at this time of year in Albury isn't very practical, it's too cold! But in summer, this is a great treat! A RMB daily is great. A walk in the morning, incorporating some obedience work, is excellent. A sandpit just for the dog and laced with lots of doggie niceties such as stuffed kongs, food treats, etc, is fabulous. Just cover it when not in use to keep the neighbourhood cats out of your dog's play area. Hope these ideas help. :D

It's funny, I was thinking the same thing. Nike - positive reinforcement is training that most obedience schools, puppy schools, shelters, rescues, and vet clinics use and recommend. It's todays training that respects the dog and handler. There is no need to bully a baby puppy into submission. Bark Busters and some other organisations still see the canine/human relationship as one of master (human) bullying the dog into doing what the human wants: while this will get the dog's attention, and while this will scare the crap out of the dog, it won't be building a positive relationship. It's a positive relationship that any humane dog handler is working for, not one where the dog is scared sh*tless of its owner. You talk about large male dogs...yet you also appear to have no real dog handling experience. I have to wonder how you know so much about large male dogs and how ppl have to "discipline" a dog into doing what they demand. There really is a better way IMO. It is not a "soft" approach at all, rather it seeks to provide the dog with what a dog needs to work with a human in a positive and motivated way: encouragement and praise for 'wanted' behaviours, disregarding 'unwanted' behaviours. A dog wants attention. If it does something you do not want it to do, and you raise your voice at it, guess what? It's got the attention it seeks. Do you think that stops the dog from doing the unwanted behaviour? Of course not! You are merely reinforcing the behaviour that you DON'T want from the dog...and is it any wonder that so many ppl have "undisciplined" dogs when they are resorting to methods that don't work? BB use and recommend such methods as throwing heavy (vehicle towing) chains on the ground to frighten a dog when it's doing something you don't want such as nuisance barking. Is that an appropriate response? No, I don't think it is. That sort of response is the reason that so many dogs end up in shelters, frightened beyond belief. Ppl mistakenly think they can frighten their dog into the behaviour they desire. It simply doesn't work in the way the handler is hoping and makes the dog absolutely miserable. This is certainly NOT demonstrating yourself as the Alpha in the pack or asserting dominance - this is telling the dog that you are slightly crazy and will do scary things without warning. The only lesson the dog learns is, "That person is crazy...I better stay out of his/her way." Positive reinforcement is the right way to train a dog IMO. Some ppl disagree. I've seen the results of both (over the long term) and positive reinforcement wins hands-down every time. You end up with a happy and well-adjusted dog that not only knows the rules, it knows that you will be kind but firm, fair and reasonable, and the dog will work *with* you willingly, every single day of its life. :D

I generally disagree with a growly voice when teaching a dog/pup what you're asking of it...the parent animal often uses such a voice if a pup is in immediate danger and it's done to frighten the pup immediately. That's JMO. I generally prefer to use a happy voice to praise for desired behaviours and the "ignore" rule for the undesired ones. That is, praise the dog for doing what you ask of it using a light, happy tone (sing-song voice is ideal!), accompanied by a food treat to reinforce the "I'm so happy you did that!" message. For behaviours you wish to eliminate, simply ignoring them *will* make them go away. Example? One of my dogs, Ruby, is very excitable esp when I get home from work. She likes to jump up, bark like crazy, and generally cause havoc due to excitement. If I 'reward' her by giving her attention, even to scold her, she continues the unwanted behaviours just b/c she has my attention. BUT if I ignore her behaviours, she quickly settles, sits and waits for a pat and hello. A dog learns best when we understand how to communicate our desires and intentions to it - we need to learn to speak dog at least as much as the dog needs to learn how to speak human. JMHO. :D BTW - Bark Busters advocate the growly voice, among many techniques, some of which are outdated and were phased out in many training establishments more than 20 years ago. This organisation doesn't seem to have caught up with current training techniques and I doubt it will b/c its founder thinks she knows best. I happen to disagree with her methods. They might "work" but more b/c the dog is now frightened into submission rather than the dog understands what you expect and wants to please you by doing the right things. Again, JMO.

PM - I take it the caravan park in Uralla was fully booked? They definitely allow dogs inside their cabins...we stayed there with Ruby (staffy cross) and Lilly (greyhound) inside with no problems at all. It was only an overnight stay too. The place you've booked into is a LONG way out of town...no shops either.

KK - It's readily available in the (relatively small) Canberra market. And in Melbourne I had at least four stockists from which to choose but only two did not sell animals so that was really two (in my local area).

We've stayed at "Country Road Caravan Park and Cabins" in Uralla on our way from Cairns to Melbourne November 2004. The place allowed dogs inside their accommodation...basic cabins (some with ensuite) and friendly service. For memory, not too expensive either (under $60 for the night, I think). It's on the highway a couple of kms south of Uralla and that's about 20-30 minutes south of Armidale. IMO you won't find any accommodation at Armidale that allows dogs inside. You can contact the caravan park on 02 6778 4563 (according to the book "Holidaying with Dogs"). In our experience, coastal routes are less dog-friendly than inland ones. We managed to get a motel in Holbrook (just north of Albury) that would allow the dogs inside, but it took some sweet-talking as they had problems with dog owners in the past trashing the rooms (allowing their dogs to mark walls, bedding, curtains, etc ) and barking dogs keeping other guests awake. It *is* difficult to find places that allow dogs inside, but if you're persistent and look outside the square, it is possible. We've driven between Canberra/Darwin/Cairns/Melbourne on various trips and always managed to find somewhere to stay the night, with the dogs welcome inside with us. You just have to know how to 'sell' yourself and your dog/s to ppl that might have had bad experiences with less responsible dog owners. It helps if you are prepared to crate your dog (or at least let them know it's possible), and it helps to know when you aren't going to budge someone from their position. HTH.

Dick van Patten's Natural Balance Organic Formula also does not use by-products...and as the name implies, all the ingredients are organic in source and content. It's a very good (super premium) kibble and reasonably priced at around $23 per 2.2 kg bag. You can buy it in bigger bags if you feed a kibble diet but I don't...I only give my toy-sized dog a small handful of kibble for breakfast and occasionally, they all get a small handful in a treat ball.

Great news! It's wonderful when you see progress, eh? And the OH...you just need to train him too! :rolleyes:

Crate training is a great way to teach a new dog or pup the house rules, toilet training, and for him/her to have their own space in your home. The principle is that you want the pup to enjoy the crate, so never use it as punishment/time out. Only positive experiences in the crate and of the crate. Search here and I'm sure you'll find some pointers. Congrats on the pup!

There are as many opinions on dog food as there are ppl with dogs. My opinion is that a dog doesn't need processed or cooked foods and in fact, does not do as well on such a regime as one fed on raw whole foods. But not everyone wants to feed raw, whole foods, and if this is you...then kibbles come in varying degrees of quality: 1. Supermarket brands - everything from no name, chum, pal/pedigree, supercoat, purina. Mostly fillers, preservatives, cereals, grains, artificial colours. Some animal-based content, usually not from a lean muscle source but from offal and other 'pet grade' ingredients. 2. Pet food supplier brands - including Bonnie and Coprice. Similar in quality to the supermarket brands. 3. Premium brands - Iams/Euk, HSD, Nutrience, Royal Canin - as some examples. Usually sold at vet surgeries as well as pet food stores. Often 'recommended' by vets. Contain a higher percentage of animal based foods than categories 1 & 2, but still full of things a dog doesn't need such as fillers. 4. Super premium brands - Eagle Pack and Eagle Pack Holistic, Dick van Patten's Natural Balance Organic Formulas, Innova esp EVO (raw). These are all imports. The ingredients are generally organic, a high percentage of lean muscle meat as the primary ingredient, complimented by appropriate plant matter. I believe that you get what you pay for: if you buy a cheap bag of food, your dog will eat a lot more of it and will produce a lot of waste b/c of the unnecessary ingredients included to 'bulk up' the food. OTOH, buy a more expensive brand and you get more food than fillers, your dog produces less waste and will likely be in better overall condition as a result. Aim for the best you can afford, but calculate the 'cost per feeding' rather than the 'cost of the bag'. HTH.

Do you mean "crate training"?

Jodie, continued pawsitive thoughts for you and Ollie. I know I hang off every new post in the thread just to see how he's doing. Give him a pat from me and here's a hug for you. ((((( )))))

Good for you Angelo! Great news! :rolleyes:

Not getting into a debate here...I like being vegetarian. The longer a dead animal hangs, as far as I'm concerned, the worse it is, not the better - even refrigerated items perish due to natural forces. JMHO.

There are *some* butchers who don't use SD as a preservative, but by and large, it's in human foods as much as pet foods. Do you really think meat that was killed two weeks ago still has that "nice red colour" naturally? Don't you think it would have started to go rotten? ;) Of course, human grade meat products have SD in them...otherwise, the meat in your butcher shop would be rotten and stinking and they wouldn't have a customer in sight - unless you are based in a town where there is a slaughterhouse, you will likely find SD and many other preservatives in your meat products. SD is widely used b/c it's cheap and readily available. As if I needed *another* reason to be vegetarian.

If your partner is not giving the dog the same signals you are, I'm afraid your job will be that much more difficult. If he's not willing or not able to work with you, then the dog will become increasingly confused and you will likely never train/teach her to do what you require. IMO he either works to your instructions, or he leaves her alone. He is doing more harm than good ATM.

Ditto. That and NILIF Training (Nothing In Life Is Free). Make her work for *everything* esp your attention. Give her a good walk every morning, no excuses! This will help. But you must be above her in the pack and ATM I'm not sure she gets that message. When she comes indoors, have her in a 'down stay' for a good 15 minutes before releasing her. This is to reinforce that you are above her in the pack and that she must respect your position.

If you are taking him for a walk every time he goes out, rather than just a quick toilet stop, of course he will take a long time to train. You don't want this to be "fun" for him...just a quick wee/poo and praise profusely then back inside. You can buy DAP diffusers online or see your vet for advice/info/purchase. Bear in mind that a refill lasts about one month and can cost between $30 and $40 depending on supplier. Vets are more expensive in my experience. The diffuser itself (with one refill) costs anywhere from $40 to $80 again, depending on supplier. What I'd suggest is remove the 'entertainment' from the house training. Take pup outside, give the 'go' command, and praise when he goes. Only reward him with a walk AFTER you get the result you are asking for, and fairly soon you should see progress. My girls all "wee" and "poo" on command. Yep, it's a party trick but a very handy way to manage their toileting needs AND keep my carpet reasonably clean. Muddy paws? That's a whole other thread.

I recently placed my first interceptor order with PP, and while they did deliver and they are the cheapest I've found...I paid on a Thursday and my order didn't arrive until the next Thursday...that just seemed a tad slow to me. Especially when I was told that the minute my payment hit their bank a/c they would ship my order (they gave me the impression it was sitting there and the second I paid, it would be mailed). Dunno whether to use them again or not...reliable service is important to me as is timely dispatch of order.

Oh, Bitty...the mental picture I have of this... :cool: I'm sorry, I have no advice...but really! I dunno what the answer is, but speaking of odd habits, Molly lifts one of her back legs to pee...she squats but then lifts her *right* leg...much like a male but towards her front end...any ideas on that one?

I don't "expect" my dogs to hold it, they just do! Yep, we have no dog door (have never had one), yep the dogs are all kept indoors (in this house, we have no covered area outdoors, not unusual given the type of housing OH's employer provides), and yep, they can hold it from the time they go out in the morning (usually around 6am) until I get home (again, around 6pm). If OH is not away for work, he gets home any time from 4pm...so that's ten hours maximum. I guess that when a dog is house trained, they are less inclined to make a mess...also, we have two DAP diffusers that stop most of the symptoms of Separation Anxiety. Lilly did have quite a few toileting incidents before the DAP diffusers so I'm sure that this was mostly due to anxiety and not a lack of house training. My dogs don't drink much water esp at this time of year but even in summer, they don't get very thirsty. They are raw fed, so again, that helps b/c their food is naturally moist. :cool: When I had a dog fed on kibble, he drank a LOT of water...and was kept outdoors through the day until he turned 11, when he was moved inside for his comfort and safety (he developed canine dementia and would often dig himself a hole in the garden and 'hide' from us!). If the OP tries a DAP diffuser or some other form of anxiety relief, I'm fairly sure her dog will improve, not just the toilet training but all the behaviours he currently exhibits.

The whole point of house training is to stop the dog from toileting inside the house...rather than teaching him to go somewhere you would prefer such as newspaper. Why isn't he taken outside to the toilet except on walks? Or do you mean that every time you take him out, it is for a walk? Most dogs, once they're reliably house trained, can hold it for several hours...my three can hold it from well before I leave for work until I get home. That's usually 6am (let out first thing), perhaps with another let out just before I leave but not usually, and then let out at 6pm when I get home from work. So, 12 hours, give or take. It took a while for Molly to fully understand, and she still has an occasional mishap, but she's mostly reliable after six months or so of training and reinforcement of the house rules.